Delta ready to void pilots contract.

[Pat Fabin]

Dave,

As a former 3-year furloughee, I find your categorizing of the remaining furloughed guys as willing scabs highly insulting. Even in the worst times I'd never cross a picket line and I think you underestimate our younger pilots' integrity. Beyond the ethical and professional ramifications of scabbing, Delta's proposed pay rates are barely enough to attract someone to work here during normal times, let alone entice someone to cross a line and be labled for 30 years.

Do you really think the 475 pilots that are still on furlough are waiting with baited breath to come back to DAL at any cost? No way.

But, this isn't the first time you've painted DAL pilots with a broad, inaccurate brush.

You may, however, continue to bash the rich, disconnected, loser PRPs living in Peach Tree City.

-PF

 

[Spooky 1]

Dave,

As a former 3-year furloughee, I find your categorizing of the remaining furloughed guys as willing scabs highly insulting. Even in the worst times I'd never cross a picket line and I think you underestimate our younger pilots' integrity. Beyond the ethical and professional ramifications of scabbing, Delta's proposed pay rates are barely enough to attract someone to work here during normal times, let alone entice someone to cross a line and be labled for 30 years.

Do you really think the 475 pilots that are still on furlough are waiting with baited breath to come back to DAL at any cost? No way.

But, this isn't the first time you've painted DAL pilots with a broad, inaccurate brush.

You may, however, continue to bash the rich, disconnected, loser PRPs living in Peach Tree City.

-PF

Your attitude regarding the retired pilots as well as well as the PRP's defines the reason that "some" of them would jump at the opportunity to come back given the right circumsatances. You have a divided house, only this time the guys on both sides have different interests and are capable of following through inspite of the calamity that will become all of them.

 

[ASADriver]

Surplus,
What is going on over at Comair? Are the Delta and Comair MECs talking? We are all in the same boat and it would be best if all ALPA pilots worked together and used all the resoureces available to us.

So now "we are all in the same boat"? What happened during the CMR strike? DAL and ASA flew their previous flying. I expect the same will happen now. Surely you don't expect more from us than CMR got from you?

 

[800Dog]

So now "we are all in the same boat"? What happened during the CMR strike? DAL and ASA flew their previous flying. I expect the same will happen now. Surely you don't expect more from us than CMR got from you?

You have no clue do you. Delta pilots in CVG walked the line, bought food and allowed Comair to use their strike center. I do not think Delta pilots expect anything from you. What flying did Delta pilots fly while comair was on strike? Flight numbers and dates? You are wrong.

 

[Freight Dog]

Gents... your brothers and sisters at Aloha are already fighting this battle in HNL. Aloha management was the first to file 1113(c) to reject the entire contract. They were followed by NWA and DAL filings. This is the time to unite...

 

[Pat Fabin]

Spooky,

You are right, we do have a divided house in many ways. I am generally happy for the guys that got to retire early and are enjoying their retirement. But the line between the haves & have nots gets deeper and darker all the time here at Delta and the PRPs are a big part of it. I can't tell you how many I have run into that are more than happy to brag about their million in the bank, their good schedules and pay as a PRP while in the same breath tell me how I should be looking for another job and are generally clueless about this industry outside of DAL. Many of these people gave the company only 24 hours notice of their intent to retire (albeit allowed by the contract), causing the cancellation of flights and inability to anticipate training requirements. To me, they are no better than the management cronies that took the SERPS and have been a drain on the company and a detriment to pilot morale.

They retired...they should not be working here and should have been replaced by another pilot at this point.

I will say, however, the unity of the pilot group as a whole is very strong for such a difficult and devisive time. Both on the PRP issue, and management's latest push of their draconian terms. In fact, management made the mistake of making their terms so onerous, there were at least 3-5 'deal-breakers' for every pilot no matter the seniority. The result is a group of solidified, pissed off, pilots during the holiday season.

But beating this raw deal will be no easy task. If you read the company's labor-relations brief supporting the voiding of our contract, it plays on every jealous anti-pilot emotion imaginable. Any layperson would read it and probably conclude the company's request is reasonable. We sure have our work cut out for us to convince the judge otherwise. Hopefully we are up to the task...and if not, all of us in this profession will be dealt yet another devastating blow. Except for the PRPs....at least they got their million.

 

[Spooky 1]

Spooky,



You are right, we do have a divided house in many ways. I am generally happy for the guys that got to retire early and are enjoying their retirement. But the line between the haves & have nots gets deeper and darker all the time here at Delta and the PRPs are a big part of it. I can't tell you how many I have run into that are more than happy to brag about their million in the bank, their good schedules and pay as a PRP while in the same breath tell me how I should be looking for another job and are generally clueless about this industry outside of DAL. Many of these people gave the company only 24 hours notice of their intent to retire (albeit allowed by the contract), causing the cancellation of flights and inability to anticipate training requirements. To me, they are no better than the management cronies that took the SERPS and have been a drain on the company and a detriment to pilot morale.

They retired...they should not be working here and should have been replaced by another pilot at this point.

I will say, however, the unity of the pilot group as a whole is very strong for such a difficult and devisive time. Both on the PRP issue, and management's latest push of their draconian terms. In fact, management made the mistake of making their terms so onerous, there were at least 3-5 'deal-breakers' for every pilot no matter the seniority. The result is a group of solidified, pissed off, pilots during the holiday season.

But beating this raw deal will be no easy task. If you read the company's labor-relations brief supporting the voiding of our contract, it plays on every jealous anti-pilot emotion imaginable. Any layperson would read it and probably conclude the company's request is reasonable. We sure have our work cut out for us to convince the judge otherwise. Hopefully we are up to the task...and if not, all of us in this profession will be dealt yet another devastating blow. Except for the PRPs....at least they got their million.

Cetainly not intent to throw salt in to the wounds that this pilot group has suffered plenty already, but rather to point out (as if you don't already know) the extremist, scorched earth policy that JG and his cronies are perpetuating on the DAL pilots. Plently of blame to go around for everybody, but if there is any question in your mind about this Delta management group and the extent they will go to destroy you, carefully rethink the strike options and the laws of unintended consequences.

 

[Pat Fabin]

Spooky,

I have no doubt that this management group forsees a time when they are simply 'Skyteam Travel Services' and farms out ALL flying around the world to the lowest bidder. I am fairly young and intend to remain a professional pilot, provided I am compensated fairly and have a reasonable balance between work and family life. I know a strike will kill Delta Air Lines....but that is our only means to let this 'management group' know we are not their ATM machine and a we will not work under their proposed conditions.

Maybe, in the end, a strike at Delta is the best thing for this business and the remaining pilots in the industry. We all have asked ourselves lately 'where does it stop?' I believe a strike is the only means to stop management from continuously coming to the employees to pay for their misteps.

I am fully prepared both emotionally and financially to strike if deemed necessary. If Delta dissolves, my family will adapt just like we did when I was furloughed. Sadly this dream career is quickly becomeing 'just a job' and will not be that hard to replace.

Hopefully the rest of the pilots and other employees have contingency plans as well.

Meanwhile, I consider to do the best job I can for this company....but I do it for me now; not for some love of the corporation, its history, past fables of a 'Delta family', etc.

-PF
Have soapbox, will travel.

 

[Spooky 1]

Spooky,

I have no doubt that this management group forsees a time when they are simply 'Skyteam Travel Services' and farms out ALL flying around the world to the lowest bidder. I am fairly young and intend to remain a professional pilot, provided I am compensated fairly and have a reasonable balance between work and family life. I know a strike will kill Delta Air Lines....but that is our only means to let this 'management group' know we are not their ATM machine and a we will not work under their proposed conditions.

Maybe, in the end, a strike at Delta is the best thing for this business and the remaining pilots in the industry. We all have asked ourselves lately 'where does it stop?' I believe a strike is the only means to stop management from continuously coming to the employees to pay for their misteps.

I am fully prepared both emotionally and financially to strike if deemed necessary. If Delta dissolves, my family will adapt just like we did when I was furloughed. Sadly this dream career is quickly becomeing 'just a job' and will not be that hard to replace.

Hopefully the rest of the pilots and other employees have contingency plans as well.

Meanwhile, I consider to do the best job I can for this company....but I do it for me now; not for some love of the corporation, its history, past fables of a 'Delta family', etc.

-PF
Have soapbox, will travel.

AMEN!

 

[surplus1]

Surplus,
What is going on over at Comair? Are the Delta and Comair MECs talking? We are all in the same boat and it would be best if all ALPA pilots worked together and used all the resources available to us.

The Company has made a "proposal" that would severely cut our pay, take away our defined contribution retirement, and gut the rest of our contract.

I do not know if the CMR MEC is talking to the DAL MEC but I suspect the DMEC is too busy with its own concerns to be worried about Comair. Comair pilots may well take a similar stance and take this matter through 1113c, but if they do I don't think it will be bacuase of discourse with the DMEC. It will be because the company's proposal is unwarranted and sometimes it is necessary to say NO regardless of the risks. Comiar pilots have said NO before and may do so again. Don't be surprised if it happens.

Yes, it would be nice if all ALPA pilots worked toghether. However if that were to happen it would no longer be ALPA.

 

[Birdstrike]

...I am fully prepared both emotionally and financially to strike if deemed necessary. If Delta dissolves, my family will adapt just like we did when I was furloughed. Sadly this dream career is quickly becomeing 'just a job' and will not be that hard to replace...

I lived in PTC for many years and still have DAL friends there. While I understand your painful position, can you expand on how striking is going to accomplish anything other than making a personal statement of principle?

That's a laudable goal if that's your intent, but your company is bleeding billions. Management knows you have nowhere to go except out. I don't understand how you feel that you have any leverage in such a situation. If there weren't enough qualified replacements, then I'd understand, but aren't you going to be replaced in a heartbeat by guys who'd do anything to have your job at even half the pay? Why not stay, comply with whatever the bankruptcy judge decides, and live to fight another day?

Seems like the first order of business is to regain profitability. Lacking that, a company is fortunate to even still be in business.

 

[surplus1]

Seems like the first order of business is to regain profitability. Lacking that, a company is fortunate to even still be in business.

A decision by Delta's pilots to permit their management to further gut the pilots' collective bargaining agreement will not restore the corporation to profitability. The Delta pilots have already given a billion dollars per annum to that effort, without substantial improvement.

Sometimes a company that seeks to exploit its employees as means of offseting its management's failures SHOULD go out of business.

I wish the Delta pilots nothing but good but I agree with them. They should not permit their company to make them the scapegoats. Some battles have to be fought for principles. We have this country because some men took a stand when it was necessary. I hope the Delta pilots have the fortitude to do so now. It is necessary.

JMO

 

[Buckaroo]

A decision by Delta's pilots to permit their management to further gut the pilots' collective bargaining agreement will not restore the corporation to profitability. The Delta pilots have already given a billion dollars per annum to that effort, without substantial improvement.

Sometimes a company that seeks to exploit its employees as means of offseting its management's failures SHOULD go out of business.

I wish the Delta pilots nothing but good but I agree with them. They should not permit their company to make them the scapegoats. Some battles have to be fought for principles. We have this country because some men took a stand when it was necessary. I hope the Delta pilots have the fortitude to do so now. It is necessary.

JMO

Strike and put Delta out of business!!!!! By gosh, that'll show em. We all may be out of jobs, but at least we will still have our principles. By all means, lets take one in the gut for all the other pilots in the industry. First, we will begin to "Restore the Profession" through mass sick calls over the holidays. Then, WHAM!! - we walk. Aircraft are parked.

The profession is restored, and we walk away with our principles and without jobs.

 

[PAPA FOX!]

A decision by Delta's pilots to permit their management to further gut the pilots' collective bargaining agreement will not restore the corporation to profitability. The Delta pilots have already given a billion dollars per annum to that effort, without substantial improvement.

Sometimes a company that seeks to exploit its employees as means of offseting its management's failures SHOULD go out of business.

I wish the Delta pilots nothing but good but I agree with them. They should not permit their company to make them the scapegoats. Some battles have to be fought for principles. We have this country because some men took a stand when it was necessary. I hope the Delta pilots have the fortitude to do so now. It is necessary.

JMO

AMEN!! It is by having that attitude that we fought and won the Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW2 and other turning points for the USA. You will be martyrs for the present and next generation of pilots. Well most of the ones with dignity and a sense of self worth anyway. Just like I salute every soldier who gave his life or limb for the greater good, we must standby every man and women walking the picket line @ DAL and put our petty differences aside. The reprucussions for scabs must be so severe and so unpleasant that anyone contenplating it will think twice before crossing a picket line. All in all a united pilot force is a stronger pilot force.

 

[anon]

AMEN!! It is by having that attitude that we fought and won the Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW2 and other turning points for the USA. You will be martyrs for the present and next generation of pilots. Well most of the ones with dignity and a sense of self worth anyway. Just like I salute every soldier who gave his life or limb for the greater good, we must standby every man and women walking the picket line @ DAL and put our petty differences aside. The reprucussions for scabs must be so severe and so unpleasant that anyone contenplating it will think twice before crossing a picket line. All in all a united pilot force is a stronger pilot force.

Are you kidding, the ASA MEC made an Eastern scab the head of the ALPA Security Committee...