Delta ready to void pilots contract.

[Buckaroo]

By the way, if you want to see an example of integrity within the pilot profession, look to the AA pilots.

 

[Spooky 1]

Spooky,
Instead of quitting, I had rather exercise my right to strike. If Delta goes away, so be it. I am planning on leaving this profession in the next year anyway and could care less about other employee groups. They could care less about the pilots and the fact we have already given a disproportionate amount. My fellow pilots are the only ones I care about. Sounds selfish but, most people hate pilots and so, I could care less about the affect a stike would have on them. I will sleep well at night and feel good about myself when looking in the mirror. I refuse to allow any management team to rape me and my profession. I know you will not understand this mentality and that actually makes me feel good as I can tell you are not a man of honor.

Wow! You need to get a grip on you lip assh6le. I was walking picket lines when you were still wet behind the ears. Hey Bubba you don't know me or anything about me but with an attitude like that your doomed to failure. I think I will just sit back and watch you crater along with others of your ilk. You went on my ignore list pecker head.

 

[Spooky 1]

# of times "I" appears in the above post - 8
# of times "me" or "my" appears in the above post - 6
This post indicates an unfathonable amount of lack of integrity. What a bozo. This jerk will get what he deserves.

This guy sounds almost unstable. Can you imagine being stuck in the cockpit with a pilot whose venom is so strong that he poses a real danger to himself and those araound him. I know things are really in the tank over there but this guy is over the top.

 

[densoo]

Pilots union to appeal Delta pension ruling
Fri Nov 4, 2005 09:07 AM ET
NEW YORK, Nov 4 (Reuters) - The union representing Delta Air Lines Inc.'s (DALRQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research) pilots is appealing a bankruptcy court's decision to allow the airline to stop funding the pilots' $1.9 billion retirement plan, according to a court document filed on Thursday.

 

[800Dog]

Wow! You need to get a grip on you lip assh6le. I was walking picket lines when you were still wet behind the ears. Hey Bubba you don't know me or anything about me but with an attitude like that your doomed to failure. I think I will just sit back and watch you crater along with others of your ilk. You went on my ignore list pecker head.

Nice language. Total lack of class. Loser!

 

["GO AROUND"]

Are you kidding, the ASA MEC made an Eastern scab the head of the ALPA Security Committee...

Still tryin to figure how that happened. ASA never has and never will fly struck work.

 

[jetexas]

The real show to watch is Northwest. Stenland is going after the pilots with a chainsaw and, IMHO, is determined to totally subjugate the union. I don't think DAL management is that smart. I think Arpey at AA is sitting back and watching for the slash-and-burned "industry standard" contract so he can send the ultimatum to "his" pilot union . . . . of course, all in the spirit of "Win together" (or in reality . . . "You lose, but keep your job. We win and get you locked into a long term no strike contract like Eagle").

I wouldn't wish a "no strike" contract on anyone. It totally absolves management from any form of integrity or decency and you will be left with extreme frustration. Be careful.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

You made some excellent points FBJ. Why did you delete them? I hope it wasn't a concern for the negative comments you could expect in return.

I was just trying to point out that the pilots still on the payroll at Delta now have to pay for those who have exited. Management and retiring pilots alike. The $300+ million pay cut is part of the price for those who have gone before you. And it will last until the debt is brought down to a manageable level.

Yeah, Delta management did poorly. Now labor has to pay. It sucks. If Europe is an example, the legacies will reduce their domestic flying much more than they to have to date. NewCo and B scales may be the trend to prevent that. Instead of Song, Delta will find some other alter ego to fly the 100 seaters if the mainline pilots don't play ball. Or Delta will continue to decline and hope they can maintain feed for international. Can you say Pan Am?

 

[Spooky 1]

BS or?

Just talked to a friend in New York. He says there is a group of investors circling around the DAL,NWA. and possibly CAL as well. They are from Texas and you would recognize the name as a corporate raider right off the bat. No it's not FL. This is going to be interesting if there is any truth at all to the story. I have left a few out, but I think this may have some traction.

 

[surplus1]

The CMR MEC will do exactly what the CMR MEC is told to do.....

By D.W. and his kronies in Herdon that is.

The real question is what will the Comair pilots do? MEC's can easily make themselves irrelevant. As for the outfit in DC, it has been irrelevant for CMR pilots since before the strike; nothing has changed there.

Now that the NWA MEC has chosen to capitulate, it is left to be seen how that will affect the decision of the Delta pilots. I suspect the bravado will wane and they will do just what the NWA pilots have done; throw in the towel.

 

[surplus1]

What you say may be very well true and while I respect those principles, how long is Joe Delta going to be able make the mortgage and car payments while living off a limited strike fund? More importantly, how much certainty is there that this kind of a job action will still accomplish the desired goal for the risks involved? Got leverage? That's all I'm asking.

If the Delta pilots do make a decision to strike, it will probably result in Chapter 7 for Delta. Only they can decide if they're willing to take that risk or not.

Delta management has apparently decided that they are willing to take that risk. Either they don't believe the rhetoric of the Delta pilots or they don't care. Probably a little of both.

The rEAL pilots had to make a similar decision knowing that it would result in the end of their airline. They did and it did. Some think they were foolish, others respect them both for their principles and their great loss.

Times were somewhat different then so it is not exactly the same but it is similar.

I don't know what the DL pilots will do but now that the NWA pilots have capitulated, they're pretty much left holding the bag. We shall see what course they take.

My little airline is doomed no matter what we do. Since we have nothing to lose it may be worth considering causing the company as much pain as possible before we are assassinated anyway.

We shall see.

 

[Publishers]

Surplus1, that is the first time I have actually read your posts and seen a let's just do this for the sake of doing it.
As I have said before, chapter 11 does not mean going forth as usual nor does it mean that mangement has the control they did. The fact is that more decisions are made for management than the other way around. Labor decisions are a part but so is the supplier chain, bankers, lessors, accountants, lawyers, etc.
It is far from a --let's just forget the old debt and move on like we were going.

 

[FDJ2]

No, it will be up to the pilots on whether or not there is a strike.

Wrong sport, the pilots are willing to negotiate, management isn't. Whether there is a strike depends on whether or not management wants to negotiate in good faith or not.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus1, that is the first time I have actually read your posts and seen a let's just do this for the sake of doing it.
As I have said before, chapter 11 does not mean going forth as usual nor does it mean that mangement has the control they did. The fact is that more decisions are made for management than the other way around. Labor decisions are a part but so is the supplier chain, bankers, lessors, accountants, lawyers, etc.
It is far from a --let's just forget the old debt and move on like we were going.

I understand the perogatves of the court, the creditors and the Company in Chapter 11. I am also familiar with 1113(c).

I am not advocating doing anything just for the sake of doing it.

What I am saying is this: If you are holding a gun to my head and I know for a fact that you intend to pull the trigger, I have nothing to lose if I attempt to take the gun away. If I fail, you shoot me. If I don't try, you shoot me. No difference between those two.

If I do try I may not prevent you from shooting me, but perhaps I can inflict a mortal wound before you do. If we both die that is better than just letting you shoot me without any protest.

That's what we have to decide. I don't know what we will do as yet.

The Company is not Comair, it is Delta Air Lines. The way they see Comair is not the same as the way they see Delta. We are expendable to them. We're just not expendable to ourselves. You know the rest.

 

[FDJ2]

I understand the perogatves of the court, the creditors and the Company in Chapter 11. I am also familiar with 1113(c).

I am not advocating doing anything just for the sake of doing it.

What I am saying is this: If you are holding a gun to my head and I know for a fact that you intend to pull the trigger, I have nothing to lose if I attempt to take the gun away. If I fail, you shoot me. If I don't try, you shoot me. No difference between those two.

If I do try I may not prevent you from shooting me, but perhaps I can inflict a mortal wound before you do. If we both die that is better than just letting you shoot me without any protest.

That's what we have to decide. I don't know what we will do as yet.

The Company is not Comair, it is Delta Air Lines. The way they see Comair is not the same as the way they see Delta. We are expendable to them. We're just not expendable to ourselves. You know the rest.

Note the time: I agree with Surplus.:beer:

 

[Buckaroo]

I understand the perogatves of the court, the creditors and the Company in Chapter 11. I am also familiar with 1113(c).

I am not advocating doing anything just for the sake of doing it.

What I am saying is this: If you are holding a gun to my head and I know for a fact that you intend to pull the trigger, I have nothing to lose if I attempt to take the gun away. If I fail, you shoot me. If I don't try, you shoot me. No difference between those two.

If I do try I may not prevent you from shooting me, but perhaps I can inflict a mortal wound before you do. If we both die that is better than just letting you shoot me without any protest.

That's what we have to decide. I don't know what we will do as yet.

The Company is not Comair, it is Delta Air Lines. The way they see Comair is not the same as the way they see Delta. We are expendable to them. We're just not expendable to ourselves. You know the rest.

Bad analogy. You left out the thousands of innocent bystanders (other employees) that would be thrown out on the streets by your "noble" actions.
I lost all respect for pilots during the "United +1%, or we'll strike!!" extortion.

 

[surplus1]

Bad analogy. You left out the thousands of innocent bystanders (other employees) that would be thrown out on the streets by your "noble" actions.
I lost all respect for pilots during the "United +1%, or we'll strike!!" extortion.

Maybe if you knew what the "other employees" think of our parent company you might not think the analogy was such a bad one.

The other employees are in the boat right along with us. If Delta shuts down the airline, they are history. If we shut it down, they are history. There is no difference.

 

[Buckaroo]

Maybe if you knew what the "other employees" think of our parent company you might not think the analogy was such a bad one.

The other employees are in the boat right along with us. If Delta shuts down the airline, they are history. If we shut it down, they are history. There is no difference.

I do know a lot of the other employees, and they would rather be on a life raft with management than on a kamikazee plane with the pilots.

 

[michael707767]

I do know a lot of the other employees, and they would rather be on a life raft with management than on a kamikazee plane with the pilots.

wow, great analogy....... On the other hand our kamikazee plane will be pointed right at the lifeboat.

 

[Nindiri]

Note the time: I agree with Surplus.:beer:

Isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

 

[surplus1]

Note the time: I agree with Surplus.:beer:

Never thought I'd see the day but thanks anyway. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Maybe we should stand in each other's corner? As Franklin said, we must hang together gentlemen, .... else we shall surely hang separately (or something to that effect).

 

[~~~^~~~]

Never thought I'd see the day but thanks anyway. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Maybe we should stand in each other's corner? As Franklin said, we must hang together gentlemen, .... else we shall surely hang separately (or something to that effect).

What are the chords to Kum By Yah anyway?

The Delta MEC locked the ASA and Comair MECs out of brand scope, took their fleets from 105 to 50 seats (with the grandfathered 70's), and started the race for the bottom by ripping the guts out of ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. These same jerks allowed retiree's to come back and all sorts of green slip flying while their members were on furlough....

Sports fans, you heard it here first, the Delta MEC gave up the moral high ground back in 1999. Other pilots have a lot more integrity than these self serving Delta MEC members and they might just hold the line, but, the Delta MEC is asking a lot given their past performance. These jerks should be burned for what they have done to our union.

~~~^~~~
Conch Republic Expatriot

 

[~~~^~~~]

Are you kidding, the ASA MEC made an Eastern scab the head of the ALPA Security Committee...

Yes, even with First Officers that he had flown with objecting to his reinstatement at the MEC meeting!

A month later Duane Woerth was photographed having cake and ice cream with Continental Scabs as he welcomed them back into ALPA without a penny of back dues.

To his credit, the former Lorenzo pilot at ASA has done a good job as Chairman of the Security Committee. I haven't flown with him because I swore I would never, ever, do it again after one leg. (The Company should look at my sick bank before they ever schedule us together) None the less, I believe in redemption and see his work as evidence that he has found his way.

 

[737 Pylt]

What are the chords to Kum By Yah anyway?

The Delta MEC locked the ASA and Comair MECs out of brand scope, took their fleets from 105 to 50 seats (with the grandfathered 70's), and started the race for the bottom by ripping the guts out of ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. These same jerks allowed retiree's to come back and all sorts of green slip flying while their members were on furlough....

Sports fans, you heard it here first, the Delta MEC gave up the moral high ground back in 1999. Other pilots have a lot more integrity than these self serving Delta MEC members and they might just hold the line, but, the Delta MEC is asking a lot given their past performance. These jerks should be burned for what they have done to our union.

~~~^~~~
Conch Republic Expatriot

Fins:
Glad to see you're back. Also glad to see "your end of the world plight" blame game is still focusing on the DAL pilots!
737

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins:
Glad to see you're back. Also glad to see "your end of the world plight" blame game is still focusing on the DAL pilots!
737

Not the Pilots, but the wrongheaded direction their MEC has lead them, the airline that they fly for and our union. My "end of World" prognosis has been remarkably accurate. After all, isn't this thread about the airline voiding your concessionary contract as a result of their bankruptcy?

 

[FDJ2]

Not the Pilots, but the wrongheaded direction their MEC has lead them, the airline that they fly for and our union. My "end of World" prognosis has been remarkably accurate. After all, isn't this thread about the airline voiding your concessionary contract as a result of their bankruptcy?

Oh that's it Fins, DAL's bankruptcy is the result of the Delta pilots not giving you a DAL seniority number, or was it not allowing unlimited outsourcing in lieu of giving you a DAL seniority number. Geez Fin, just imagine that, if only the DAL pilots had integrated lists with CMR/ASA and surrendered all DAL code flying to RFP bids DAL would never have entered BK.

 

[spinproof]

Oh that's it Fins, DAL's bankruptcy is the result of the Delta pilots not giving you a DAL seniority number, or was it not allowing unlimited outsourcing in lieu of giving you a DAL seniority number. Geez Fin, just imagine that, if only the DAL pilots had integrated lists with CMR/ASA and surrendered all DAL code flying to RFP bids DAL would never have entered BK.

No but it would have prevented mainline furloughes and pilot group whipsawing. It's hard to feel sorry for another boat when it's your boat that's leaking!

 

[tuna pimp]

wow, great analogy....... On the other hand our kamikazee plane will be pointed right at the lifeboat.

Wow.

I work at Delta and bust my butt everyday trying to get Delta turned around. Probably 99% of the rest of the company is trying to do the same thing. Nobody is liking the paycuts and having to do more with less.

Your comments show a complete and utter lack of any sort of respect, class or any sort of even basic regard for the 60,000 other Delta employees who count on this company for a paycheck to feed their families.

 

[FDJ2]

No but it would have prevented mainline furloughes and pilot group whipsawing. It's hard to feel sorry for another boat when it's your boat that's leaking!

The PID would not have merged lists. DAL is only obligated to merge lists when it is contractually required. Since neither the ASA or CMR pilots ever bothered to negotiation language in their PWA requiring a list merger in the event of an acquisition then it is disengenuous to blame DAL pilots for the fact that the lists weren't merged. Take responsibility for your own failure to protect yourself before casting stones at the DAL pilots.

Even if the lists were merged, there is no way for you to categorically state that there would not have been furloughs. You leap to the assumption that if the lists had been merged DAL would have grown the unified list with shiny new RJs. That flies in the face of DAL's history of outsourcing RJ flying to non DAL pilots.

Finally, it is Fins and his RJDC buddies that seek to tear down scope restrictions that limit an airline from outsourcing its code, regardless of the size of the airframe. It is Fins and his RJDC buddies that seek to expand the whipsaw through their lawsuit. The RJDC does not differentiate between wholly owned or not. According to the RJDC, even if the lists are combined, the combined list would be prevented from having scope language over the DAL code.

 

[Champ42272]

My understanding is that neither the company, nor the court, can abrogate the entire contract. The company can petition the court to suspend parts of the contract for a certain period of time, but eventually would have to negotiate the suspended portions eventually (whether that occurs before the company emerges from bankruptcy, or shortly thereafter I do not know). Expect compensation and benefits to take a huge hit, and work rules to be significantly affected as well. My wife is a Delta pilot and I am having her update her resume for future employment elsewhere, I think there is a better than even chance they never come out of bankruptcy, especially if management gets everything they want, there won't be much of a reason to go to work.