Delta ready to void pilots contract.

[surplus1]

Note the time: I agree with Surplus.:beer:

Never thought I'd see the day but thanks anyway. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Maybe we should stand in each other's corner? As Franklin said, we must hang together gentlemen, .... else we shall surely hang separately (or something to that effect).

 

[~~~^~~~]

Never thought I'd see the day but thanks anyway. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Maybe we should stand in each other's corner? As Franklin said, we must hang together gentlemen, .... else we shall surely hang separately (or something to that effect).

What are the chords to Kum By Yah anyway?

The Delta MEC locked the ASA and Comair MECs out of brand scope, took their fleets from 105 to 50 seats (with the grandfathered 70's), and started the race for the bottom by ripping the guts out of ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. These same jerks allowed retiree's to come back and all sorts of green slip flying while their members were on furlough....

Sports fans, you heard it here first, the Delta MEC gave up the moral high ground back in 1999. Other pilots have a lot more integrity than these self serving Delta MEC members and they might just hold the line, but, the Delta MEC is asking a lot given their past performance. These jerks should be burned for what they have done to our union.

~~~^~~~
Conch Republic Expatriot

 

[~~~^~~~]

Are you kidding, the ASA MEC made an Eastern scab the head of the ALPA Security Committee...

Yes, even with First Officers that he had flown with objecting to his reinstatement at the MEC meeting!

A month later Duane Woerth was photographed having cake and ice cream with Continental Scabs as he welcomed them back into ALPA without a penny of back dues.

To his credit, the former Lorenzo pilot at ASA has done a good job as Chairman of the Security Committee. I haven't flown with him because I swore I would never, ever, do it again after one leg. (The Company should look at my sick bank before they ever schedule us together) None the less, I believe in redemption and see his work as evidence that he has found his way.

 

[737 Pylt]

What are the chords to Kum By Yah anyway?

The Delta MEC locked the ASA and Comair MECs out of brand scope, took their fleets from 105 to 50 seats (with the grandfathered 70's), and started the race for the bottom by ripping the guts out of ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. These same jerks allowed retiree's to come back and all sorts of green slip flying while their members were on furlough....

Sports fans, you heard it here first, the Delta MEC gave up the moral high ground back in 1999. Other pilots have a lot more integrity than these self serving Delta MEC members and they might just hold the line, but, the Delta MEC is asking a lot given their past performance. These jerks should be burned for what they have done to our union.

~~~^~~~
Conch Republic Expatriot

Fins:
Glad to see you're back. Also glad to see "your end of the world plight" blame game is still focusing on the DAL pilots!
737

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins:
Glad to see you're back. Also glad to see "your end of the world plight" blame game is still focusing on the DAL pilots!
737

Not the Pilots, but the wrongheaded direction their MEC has lead them, the airline that they fly for and our union. My "end of World" prognosis has been remarkably accurate. After all, isn't this thread about the airline voiding your concessionary contract as a result of their bankruptcy?

 

[FDJ2]

Not the Pilots, but the wrongheaded direction their MEC has lead them, the airline that they fly for and our union. My "end of World" prognosis has been remarkably accurate. After all, isn't this thread about the airline voiding your concessionary contract as a result of their bankruptcy?

Oh that's it Fins, DAL's bankruptcy is the result of the Delta pilots not giving you a DAL seniority number, or was it not allowing unlimited outsourcing in lieu of giving you a DAL seniority number. Geez Fin, just imagine that, if only the DAL pilots had integrated lists with CMR/ASA and surrendered all DAL code flying to RFP bids DAL would never have entered BK.

 

[spinproof]

Oh that's it Fins, DAL's bankruptcy is the result of the Delta pilots not giving you a DAL seniority number, or was it not allowing unlimited outsourcing in lieu of giving you a DAL seniority number. Geez Fin, just imagine that, if only the DAL pilots had integrated lists with CMR/ASA and surrendered all DAL code flying to RFP bids DAL would never have entered BK.

No but it would have prevented mainline furloughes and pilot group whipsawing. It's hard to feel sorry for another boat when it's your boat that's leaking!

 

[tuna pimp]

wow, great analogy....... On the other hand our kamikazee plane will be pointed right at the lifeboat.

Wow.

I work at Delta and bust my butt everyday trying to get Delta turned around. Probably 99% of the rest of the company is trying to do the same thing. Nobody is liking the paycuts and having to do more with less.

Your comments show a complete and utter lack of any sort of respect, class or any sort of even basic regard for the 60,000 other Delta employees who count on this company for a paycheck to feed their families.

 

[FDJ2]

No but it would have prevented mainline furloughes and pilot group whipsawing. It's hard to feel sorry for another boat when it's your boat that's leaking!

The PID would not have merged lists. DAL is only obligated to merge lists when it is contractually required. Since neither the ASA or CMR pilots ever bothered to negotiation language in their PWA requiring a list merger in the event of an acquisition then it is disengenuous to blame DAL pilots for the fact that the lists weren't merged. Take responsibility for your own failure to protect yourself before casting stones at the DAL pilots.

Even if the lists were merged, there is no way for you to categorically state that there would not have been furloughs. You leap to the assumption that if the lists had been merged DAL would have grown the unified list with shiny new RJs. That flies in the face of DAL's history of outsourcing RJ flying to non DAL pilots.

Finally, it is Fins and his RJDC buddies that seek to tear down scope restrictions that limit an airline from outsourcing its code, regardless of the size of the airframe. It is Fins and his RJDC buddies that seek to expand the whipsaw through their lawsuit. The RJDC does not differentiate between wholly owned or not. According to the RJDC, even if the lists are combined, the combined list would be prevented from having scope language over the DAL code.

 

[Champ42272]

My understanding is that neither the company, nor the court, can abrogate the entire contract. The company can petition the court to suspend parts of the contract for a certain period of time, but eventually would have to negotiate the suspended portions eventually (whether that occurs before the company emerges from bankruptcy, or shortly thereafter I do not know). Expect compensation and benefits to take a huge hit, and work rules to be significantly affected as well. My wife is a Delta pilot and I am having her update her resume for future employment elsewhere, I think there is a better than even chance they never come out of bankruptcy, especially if management gets everything they want, there won't be much of a reason to go to work.

 

[Noserider76]

I do know a lot of the other employees, and they would rather be on a life raft with management than on a kamikazee plane with the pilots.

In my opinion it would be in the best interest of the other employees to support the pilots. In addition to trying to preserve a reasonable pay scale we are trying to keep as much of our flying as possible on mainline.

Management wants the ability to outsource much more of our flying and along with that flying will go many more flight attendant, gate and ramp agent, and mechanic jobs. Look around at how many jobs have already been lost to outsourcing.

Why are you spring loaded to support a management group that has made so many gross errors in just the last 6 years:

-- 2.5 Billion stock buyback --- now worthless
-- 1.8 billion for Comair
-- 1 Billion for ASA
-- 600 million invested in AeroPeru
-- Fuel hedges sold for 87 million dollars
-- Management retirement debacle
-- Billions spent on inefficient small aircraft for other companies to fly
-- Drastically cutting back flying after 911 allowing competitors to
aggressively expand in our backyard
-- Countless others (add your own here)

Don't forget, WE, the employees, are the company---management is the hired help.

 

[miles otoole]

In my opinion it would be in the best interest of the other employees to support the pilots. In addition to trying to preserve a reasonable pay scale we are trying to keep as much of our flying as possible on mainline.

Management wants the ability to outsource much more of our flying and along with that flying will go many more flight attendant, gate and ramp agent, and mechanic jobs. Look around at how many jobs have already been lost to outsourcing.

Why are you spring loaded to support a management group that has made so many gross errors in just the last 6 years:

-- 2.5 Billion stock buyback --- now worthless
-- 1.8 billion for Comair
-- 1 Billion for ASA
-- 600 million invested in AeroPeru
-- Fuel hedges sold for 87 million dollars
-- Management retirement debacle
-- Billions spent on inefficient small aircraft for other companies to fly
-- Drastically cutting back flying after 911 allowing competitors to
aggressively expand in our backyard
-- Countless others (add your own here)

Don't forget, WE, the employees, are the company---management is the hired help.

You forgot-Giving the pilots a contract they couldn't afford.

 

[General Lee]

You forgot-Giving the pilots a contract they couldn't afford.

At the time we could afford it. Leo Mullin sat there and signed the contract himself.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

Your comments show a complete and utter lack of any sort of respect, class or any sort of even basic regard for the 60,000 other Delta employees who count on this company for a paycheck to feed their families.

Hmm, and your kamikazee remark showed a lot of basic regard toward the pilot group.

I actually have great regard for the vast majority of Delta employees. As a group, I think we have great people working for Delta. But no, I have no regard for fools like you.

The decision on whether or not the pilots strike is totally in the hands of management. If you don't want to loose your paycheck, I suggest you lean on them. We will not roll over. Personally I am willing to give the company what they need. I will not give them what they want. There is a big difference there.

 

[MedFlyer]

At the time we could afford it. Leo Mullin sat there and signed the contract himself.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Leo only signed it because he was afraid of a strike. He knew DL couldn't afford it.

Personally I am willing to give the company what they need. I will not give them what they want. There is a big difference there.

The question is how do YOU know what the company needs? Judging by DL's dismal 3rd qtr numbers, they aren't even close to getting what they need.

 

[michael707767]

The question is how do YOU know what the company needs? Judging by DL's dismal 3rd qtr numbers, they aren't even close to getting what they need.

hmm, first of all, at the company road show in CVG, Jim Whitehurst told the pilots that by 2007 Delta would be "wildly profitable". Second, in negotiations with ALPA, the company has already come off its public 325 million position. Not much, but they have come off it. Now, if thats the number they truly need, why would they come off it at all? Why would they not go to the judge and have that exact amount imposed?

Bottom line for me is this though. I think another 10% pay cut from the pilots is fair. It represents the bottom of what I feel is just compensation for professional pilots. If Delta needs more than that to survive, then I say shut it down. A company that can't be profitable paying fair wages doesn't deserve to be in business, IMHO.

 

[General Lee]

Leo only signed it because he was afraid of a strike. He knew DL couldn't afford it.



The question is how do YOU know what the company needs? Judging by DL's dismal 3rd qtr numbers, they aren't even close to getting what they need.

That's not what he said at "Incommand" at the time. He said he expected that we would ask for a lot, because people with self respect ask for what they think they are worth. He said he would have asked for the same thing. (he then took $16 million as he left) HE SAID THAT. But, you think otherwise and know otherwise. You really have no clue about what happened during the Leo Mullin time period.


And, Micheal707 is correct, we must not be doing that bad if we will be "wildly profitable" in 2007. I think most of this last quarter's loss was due to paying for extra fuel costs, mainly on RJs that could not pull in enough money to cover the higher costs. Thank gawd SkyWest is "insulated" from higher fuel costs (a la Ron Reber--CFO), and that probably goes the same for you guys, although we actually still own you for the time being.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MedFlyer]

He said he expected that we would ask for a lot, because people with self respect ask for what they think they are worth.

So what? That doesn't mean that DL could afford the raises. If you can do even basic math, you'd see that there was no way DL could have afforded these raises...unless airfares went skyrocketing up (which wasn't going to happen).

And, Micheal707 is correct, we must not be doing that bad if we will be "wildly profitable" in 2007.
Bye Bye--General Lee

The caveat to that "wild profitability" is assuming that DL gets all the cuts it needs. So far, it isn't happening. DALPA isn't anywhere near the cuts management wants. And from what I've heard, attempts to renegotiate DL's debt and aircraft leases are not going well.

Not to mention that DL's management has routined predicted profitability. In 2003, they predicted that 2005 would be a profitable year after all projected cuts were in place. You see how that worked out.

 

[cmrflyer]

It all boils down to the fact that managment are unable to do there job.
They sign contracts they cannot fulfil. They buy airlines thay have no idea how to use. They give flying away to other airlines because they can. They pay other airlines to do the same flying that they already have there own airlines doing, who then give that money to USAirways. They contract the lowest of the low, and then decrease there own airlines flying because it seems like a good idea?
As i said before, we work for a bunch of morons that would be more than happy to see a 777 captain make $45000 a year.
We must fight these people, (as has been said earlier in this thread) and shut this place down if we have to. I will not lower myself to what they think i should be able to survive on!

 

[800Dog]

It all boils down to the fact that managment are unable to do there job.
They sign contracts they cannot fulfil. They buy airlines thay have no idea how to use. They give flying away to other airlines because they can. They pay other airlines to do the same flying that they already have there own airlines doing, who then give that money to USAirways. They contract the lowest of the low, and then decrease there own airlines flying because it seems like a good idea?
As i said before, we work for a bunch of morons that would be more than happy to see a 777 captain make $45000 a year.
We must fight these people, (as has been said earlier in this thread) and shut this place down if we have to. I will not lower myself to what they think i should be able to survive on!

You make too much sense! Now listen up to the wannabe, low time, airline folks posting on this matter. They know best.