Delta pilots want joint contract and parity

[Superpilot92]

One of our Captains asked an LEC member on the phone about what NWA was asking for in SLI. Here was the response on our Dalpa forum:


"A month ago when they were arguing SLI, I took the 10 minutes to call my LEC Rep. He told me NWA wanted the top 500 spots on the combined list, due to their Premium Widebody (747) and Big Airbus flying. He said they only considered our 10 777's as "True Widebodys" discounting our 767-400's and all the ER's completely.

Then there would be some sort of 1-1, which would leave the bottom 2,000+ on the combined list 100% Delta. They also wanted to count all their 787 "Firm Orders" but not count our equally firm 777 orders.

Now, I got this from my LEC rep, but I don't know if our LEC's were fully briefed on exactly what was going on in negotiations, or if this was just a rumor running around the MEC, but that's what he told me. When I got done laughing, I told him that is complete lunacy. He agreed, he said the ALPA National guy in the room also agreed they were nuts. He said NWA brought their Arbitration Lawyer to the negotiations, so what does that tell you?"


Kinda Hillarious. But, I guess our guys were LYING.

Bye Bye--General Lee

For what its worth thats almost a complete 180 from what i heard from one of our union reps. It sure would be nice to get something on paper signed and presented by both parties to see what the real story was.

 

[tblosser]

For what its worth thats almost a complete 180 from what i heard from one of our union reps. It sure would be nice to get something on paper signed and presented by both parties to see what the real story was.

Agreed!! I want to know why both sides are so secretive about this.

 

[Truckdriver]

There are a couple of NWA guys on this forum that would be pissed if they got a 50% raise and all the Delta guys stapled to the bottom. The simple fact is DALPA realized this deal was going down with or without us and they got us something in the deal. The NWA MEC decided not to get anything for the NWA guys and somehow that is DALPA's fault. If you are pissed that we have this LOA, then your complaints should be directed to your screwed up MEC not DALPA. There was no possible way for DALPA to get anything for NWA pilots unless they agreed on a joint SLI. We can all fight about that later. What DALPA has done is made the job of your disfunctional MEC a bit easier by raising the rates 5%.

 

[Superpilot92]

There are a couple of NWA guys on this forum that would be pissed if they got a 50% raise and all the Delta guys stapled to the bottom.lets be honest there are some of those on each side of the fence The simple fact is DALPA realized this deal was going down with or without us and they got us something in the deal. The NWA MEC decided not to get anything for the NWA guys and somehow that is DALPA's fault. If you are pissed that we have this LOA, then your complaints should be directed to your screwed up MEC not DALPA. There was no possible way for DALPA to get anything for NWA pilots unless they agreed on a joint SLI. We can all fight about that later. What DALPA has done is made the job of your dysfunctional MEC a bit easier by raising the rates 5%.

I have come to the conclusion that a continuation of pointing fingers will get us no where. Its time for a re-due so we can move on and start drinking some beers together as a single unified pilot group! :beer:

Alot of the speculation and rumors would be put to bed if the MECs BOTH worked together and started presenting information together so we dont have the miscommunication. Right now its all he said she said bs. Thats all counter productive and is what causes alot of the problems. CAL and UAL just put out some info, presented and signed by both MEC leaders. I think that is a great idea and by doing that everyone knows where each group stands and there is no speculation.

 

[Jiminmem]

As stated by numerous people, each side seems to be telling their people different things. It might be the same deal but looked at from people with 2 different perspectives. Hopefully these issues can be resolved and we can truely work together for a great airline and a great contract.

This deal will be finalized eventually, that makes it important to get a deal done with each other, need some unity to get the contract we want.

 

[Muskycat]

There are a couple of NWA guys on this forum that would be pissed if they got a 50% raise and all the Delta guys stapled to the bottom. The simple fact is DALPA realized this deal was going down with or without us and they got us something in the deal. The NWA MEC decided not to get anything for the NWA guys and somehow that is DALPA's fault. If you are pissed that we have this LOA, then your complaints should be directed to your screwed up MEC not DALPA. There was no possible way for DALPA to get anything for NWA pilots unless they agreed on a joint SLI. We can all fight about that later. What DALPA has done is made the job of your disfunctional MEC a bit easier by raising the rates 5%.

LOA19 is not intended to be a contract extension. This is very important to point out.

It may take a long time to reach a joint contract. Until we reach a joint contract each pilot group will continue to work under their PWA.
LOA19 does nothing more than assure pay increases in addition to the DAL PWA increases if joint negotiations are extensively prolonged.

Our goal at Delta is to have one joint contract created by NWA and DAL together and go forward together under a new PWA.

 

[Occam's Razor]

We're not hunkered down at all. To us the course is clear. Get a joint contract, get a mutually agreed to list, build a world class airline with world class compensation.

Agree on the items. Disagree on the sequence. You've gotten a bump. I saw your contrails. Nothing...not even a kick-butt contract, will happen until the list is settled. (Is that point open for discussion?) Why that order? As you'll recall, getting the hefty contract in January did us NO GOOD because we didn't have a list.

So it seems to me the first order of business will be negotiations on the list. I'll be watching the DALPA brothers feet to see if they engage on that.

If not, their words will lead to prolonged distrust.

The invitation to negotiate towards that goal is out there.

Copy. List first?

Agreed. We want a joint contract and negotiated list ASAP. Arbitration is for losers.

Agree! :beer:

I'm disappointed our teams didn't even request some form of mediation to help move things along over the last few months. My knowledge of the process indicates both sides were "less than straight-forward" with each other.

Let me know what your reps say about the proper sequence for our tasks.

[Disclaimer: I'll still be watching their feet]

 

[slapstick]

Attitudes out on the line can be completely different than attitudes on this forum. From my experiences, Delta pilots really DO want fairness for everyone, and to get a common contract quickly. They don't expect an SLI that disproportionately favors them. They've already been through a bitter time, and now that things were improving, don't want to go back to working with miserable, hostile coworkers (original DL or original NWA). Of course, that can all change when someone is faced with displacement or furlough... when family life begins to suffer, all congeniality evaporates.

I hope both sides can stay positive and constructive. I've heard many times through the pipeline that some members of NWA's MEC are difficult to negotiate with. Maybe NWA guys are told the same about our guys. I'm curious about exactly what SLI deals were offered, but am trying not to get hung up by it. Let's move forward!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Attitudes out on the line can be completely different than attitudes on this forum. From my experiences, Delta pilots really DO want fairness for everyone, and to get a common contract quickly. They don't expect an SLI that disproportionately favors them. They've already been through a bitter time, and now that things were improving, don't want to go back to working with miserable, hostile coworkers (original DL or original NWA). Of course, that can all change when someone is faced with displacement or furlough... when family life begins to suffer, all congeniality evaporates.

I hope both sides can stay positive and constructive. I've heard many times through the pipeline that some members of NWA's MEC are difficult to negotiate with. Maybe NWA guys are told the same about our guys. I'm curious about exactly what SLI deals were offered, but am trying not to get hung up by it. Let's move forward!

Slappy...you and I are going to be muy simpatico when this lash-up gets together! :beer:

You've got a good handle of the situation, especially this part: "I've heard many times through the pipeline that some members of NWA's MEC are difficult to negotiate with."

Is a pig's butt pork?

Since they're my brothers...I'll try to find something "nice" to say about them.

um....


um...


Got it!

It appears they have opposable thumbs.

 

[tblosser]

Slappy...you and I are going to be muy simpatico when this lash-up gets together! :beer:

You've got a good handle of the situation, especially this part: "I've heard many times through the pipeline that some members of NWA's MEC are difficult to negotiate with."

Is a pig's butt pork?

Since they're my brothers...I'll try to find something "nice" to say about them.

um....


um...


Got it!

It appears they have opposable thumbs.

Now that's funny!!

 

[Flopgut]

You've got a good handle of the situation, especially this part: "I've heard many times through the pipeline that some members of NWA's MEC are difficult to negotiate with."

Is a pig's butt pork?

You've got a saddle broke horse that will come right to you, and you're trying to beat it. And, you're smiling at the same time?! I don't get it.

 

[FDJ2]

Yeah a cap at 255 76 seaters. That allows them to order up to 60 more big RJs.

Actually, it's the DAL limit of 200 plus the NWA lower cap of 55.

 

[FDJ2]

Agree on the items. Disagree on the sequence. You've gotten a bump.

That bump + is there for all of us with a joint contract.

I saw your contrails. Nothing...not even a kick-butt contract, will happen until the list is settled.

Why, there is a certain path to list integration. We can follow ALPA policy and settle the issue in any economic environment. The same is not true of a joint contract. There the path is more fuzzy.


(Is that point open for discussion?) Why that order? As you'll recall, getting the hefty contract in January did us NO GOOD because we didn't have a list.

I think the order is driven by the economics. Of course if we can get it all wrapped up quickly through negotiations, even simultaneously it can be a win-win.

The TFA had value for the company because it settled unknowns and allowed more flexibility to utilize their assets seemlessly. Why, because we all would have agreed to it and rapidly become one pilot group.

Absent a joint contract and a SLI, there is less value in this for the corporation, therefore less for us all.

So it seems to me the first order of business will be negotiations on the list. I'll be watching the DALPA brothers feet to see if they engage on that.

I'll send you a PM on that.

 

[123]

It sure would be nice to get something on paper signed and presented by both parties to see what the real story was.

I agree completely, more written information is good. Unfortunately, our (NWA) union is not going to publish the offers.

To any DAL pilot:
Is DALPA going to publish the offers?

 

[p3flteng]

Frankly,
I don't care what was offered by who or when, that was the past, and it is unlikely to bear fruit for the future... lest that fruit turn to sour grapes.

It is imperative that we all get back to the table and Either:

Hammer the SLI out,

or

hammer it until we can't and get it into arbitration. Dialogue, it must be first and foremost. I have called my rep and asked them to get RE-ENGAGED, and I hope ALL of you will do the same.