Delta pilots want joint contract and parity

[JAM-BRO]

I hear you.

I read what you put before you edited... Yes, I would like a small raise now, some equity, and then a new and improved agreement... Why not? Why divide the groups from the get go...

 

[FDJ2]

Could you please post the actual language of the LOA regarding a "parity trigger"?

I've written enough MEC resolutions to understand this one. "...to bring about..." means "try", not "will".

I hear the words. I'm watching the feet.

Don't expect us to do all the heavy lifting. You need to take ownership and responsibility for your PWA, which was negotiated because of your different priorities and you need to contribute to negotiating a joint contract as well. We will work with you to get parity ASAP, but we wont do it alone.

There is a timeline to get it done.

I hope your watching the feet of your negotiators. They ought to be heading to work to get a joint contract.



From our recent FAQ communique.

2.This agreement will allow for a period of time where two different pay rates will exist for the same or similar aircraft for Delta and Northwest pilots. Isn’t that something we would like to avoid?

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

In both the Western and Pan Am mergers, the acquired pilot groups operated under their old contracts for a period of time. In each case, there was a harmonization schedule established to step each group up to our higher pay rates. Achieving this type of parity will be one of our top priorities as we move toward a joint contract and a SLI. Northwest’s contract specifies that if their carrier is acquired by another carrier, then their PWA remains in full effect for them until the Northwest MEC negotiates changes. We have to respect the independence of the Northwest pilots and their MEC to establish their own strategic plan.
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[/FONT]3. Will there be backlash from the Northwest pilots since they were not included in this agreement?

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The Delta MEC considers the combined Northwest and Delta pilot groups to be one group now and our every action will reflect that belief. We chose a course of action that we felt provided the most value to ALL Delta pilots including our brothers and sisters from Northwest. We will put the full power of the Delta MEC and the Delta pilots behind our efforts to achieve contract harmonization for Northwest pilots in a short period of time, and make every effort to achieve a mutually agreeable solution on seniority list integration.
[/FONT]

 

[~~~^~~~]

I read what you put before you edited... Yes, I would like a small raise now, some equity, and then a new and improved agreement... Why not? Why divide the groups from the get go...

It would not be a big deal for you to get it. After all, everyone had more before the SLI deal failed.

LOA19 is no great shakes.... in fact, despite the MEC's enthusiastic support I would not be surprised if it gets voted down. The seniority weighted equity payout is a sore spot given what the junior guys have at stake in a merger.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Don't expect us to do all the heavy lifting. You need to take ownership and responsibility for your PWA, which was negotiated because of your different priorities and you need to contribute to negotiating a joint contract as well. We will work with you to get parity ASAP, but we wont do it alone.

There is a timeline to get it done.

I hope your watching the feet of your negotiators. They ought to be heading to work to get a joint contract.

Wow! I can snip a few lines out of the "We want harmony and parity" letter now. Why wasn't the "Don't expect us to do your heavy lifting" comment included?

(Your answer to that question will frame the dilemma nicely.)

You built nothing into your "I've got mine!" LOA to at least include the basic improvements?

Not good.

 

[FDJ2]

We could have a List within a month if both sides are willing to either:

We should have had one already. In which case we all would haveall been better off.

1. Hunker-down and get it done.

That would have been best done back in February. There was a short period of time to get it done, unfortunately some thought there was no timeline. Time ran out on Monday.

2. Frame an expedited arbitration process.

I don't see it happening. Expedited negotiations yes, otherwise we'll rely on merger policy as is.

All we need to do it is "want to".

Agreed. We want a joint contract and negotiated list ASAP. Arbitration is for losers.

Both sides will hunker-down for a week to flesh out options and strategy.

We're not hunkered down at all. To us the course is clear. Get a joint contract, get a mutually agreed to list, build a world class airline with world class compensation.


The invitation to negotiate towards that goal is out there.

 

[FDJ2]

You built nothing into your "I've got mine!" LOA to at least include the basic improvements?

Not good.

We respect your contract. Your contract specifies you'll negotiate that. We're willing to help.

 

[CiFIknow]

Call me stupid (and I'm sure some of you will), but didn't the NWA shareholders get a premium in this deal. Yet it seems that NWA is getting treated like they are the ones being "taken over" instead of an actual merger. Not sure how that came about. Maybe Steenland is the pu--y everyone thought he was and Anderson was the mover and shaker in the deal. I know NW is smaller, yet it is uncanny how the upper management at DAL and DALALPA are are calling the shots in the deal. NWA management sold their own for the prospect of what??

 

[NuGuy]

I do not understand the NWA gnashing of teeth. (especially after reading all of LOA 19, it isn't great and it is clearly designed as a short term fix to set a floor for a subsequent joint agreement) As you learn more, or as the LOA leaks out, I think you will agree this was much ado about nothing

Ain't no leaks about it. The full LOA is posted on the NWA ALPA Webboard, and is now being ripped to shreds.

Nice of you guys to try to get a taste of the 787s...glad to see they weren't the "phantom" aircraft as some would believe.

The sweet part? NWA pilots will NEVER fly under this agreement, you all felt it was necessary to come up with rates for aircraft not on your list. Now THERE is planning ahead.

255 RJs....gawd, what are you guys smoking? Heck, I thought NWA scope was bad...sheesh.

Beware...Elmer is coming!

Nu

 

[Noserider76]

100% BS and lip-service. DALPA has lost all faith with NWA guys. This BS is just a feeble attempt at saving face. Actions speak louder than words, and DALPA actions show them in bed with management in an attempt to screw over another pilot union. In fact, these words could have just as easily been printed by management. Sounds just like them. It will bite them back--guaranteed. Their weak a#$ excuses don't cut it-period.

We'll see how efficient this airline operates in the coming months if the BS doesn't get reversed ASAP. They complained about last summers staffing problem. I think we may be even leaner this summer. Not pretty.

DALPA, NWA pilots aren't your partners. You already F'd that one up! Save your welcomes for our EMT.

Schwanker

You need to look at your own MEC leadership when assigning blame for this. You obviously feel very slighted. DALPA is responsible for the whole idea of getting ANYTHING AT ALL from this merger. Your guys, NADA. Your history speaks for itself as to how we would have been treated if the roles were reversed. Confrontation is in-bred in your culture. One of the many reasons I chose to leave there when I did.

I'm hoping it's not too late to kill this idiotic idea of a merger. Maybe you guys can do it for us.

 

[General Lee]

NWA SLI via one of our Captains asking an LEC member...

One of our Captains asked an LEC member on the phone about what NWA was asking for in SLI. Here was the response on our Dalpa forum:


"A month ago when they were arguing SLI, I took the 10 minutes to call my LEC Rep. He told me NWA wanted the top 500 spots on the combined list, due to their Premium Widebody (747) and Big Airbus flying. He said they only considered our 10 777's as "True Widebodys" discounting our 767-400's and all the ER's completely.

Then there would be some sort of 1-1, which would leave the bottom 2,000+ on the combined list 100% Delta. They also wanted to count all their 787 "Firm Orders" but not count our equally firm 777 orders.

Now, I got this from my LEC rep, but I don't know if our LEC's were fully briefed on exactly what was going on in negotiations, or if this was just a rumor running around the MEC, but that's what he told me. When I got done laughing, I told him that is complete lunacy. He agreed, he said the ALPA National guy in the room also agreed they were nuts. He said NWA brought their Arbitration Lawyer to the negotiations, so what does that tell you?"


Kinda Hillarious. But, I guess our guys were LYING.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

One of our Captains asked an LEC member on the phone about what NWA was asking for in SLI. Here was the response on our Dalpa forum:


"A month ago when they were arguing SLI, I took the 10 minutes to call my LEC Rep. He told me NWA wanted the top 500 spots on the combined list, due to their Premium Widebody (747) and Big Airbus flying. He said they only considered our 10 777's as "True Widebodys" discounting our 767-400's and all the ER's completely.

Then there would be some sort of 1-1, which would leave the bottom 2,000+ on the combined list 100% Delta. They also wanted to count all their 787 "Firm Orders" but not count our equally firm 777 orders.

Now, I got this from my LEC rep, but I don't know if our LEC's were fully briefed on exactly what was going on in negotiations, or if this was just a rumor running around the MEC, but that's what he told me. When I got done laughing, I told him that is complete lunacy. He agreed, he said the ALPA National guy in the room also agreed they were nuts. He said NWA brought their Arbitration Lawyer to the negotiations, so what does that tell you?"


Kinda Hillarious. But, I guess our guys were LYING.

Bye Bye--General Lee

That sure is interesting. I bet the Northwest guys have a different story. Why would they have an arbitration lawyer there in prelim negotiations?

 

[zonker]

Delta pilots sure have done some heavy lifting all right. Pay raises that don't keep up with inflation and massive furloughs in two years. And don't forget the magic beans and the relaxation of scope!

Wow!

 

[IronCityBlue]

Delta pilots sure have done some heavy lifting all right. Pay raises that don't keep up with inflation and massive furloughs in two years. And don't forget the magic beans and the relaxation of scope!

Wow!

There may indeed be furloughs, but if any pilot can avoid that for over 2 years (24 months after merger is complete) then they have a good chance of not getting furloughed. What was relaxed in scope? More 76 seaters I take it? That alone is the only reason needed to automatically vote no.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

There may indeed be furloughs, but if any pilot can avoid that for over 2 years (24 months after merger is complete) then they have a good chance of not getting furloughed. What was relaxed in scope? More 76 seaters I take it? That alone is the only reason needed to automatically vote no.

Yeah a cap at 255 76 seaters. That allows them to order up to 60 more big RJs.

 

[~~~^~~~]

255 RJs....gawd, what are you guys smoking? Heck, I thought NWA scope was bad...sheesh.

Beware...Elmer is coming!

Nu

I agree, and that's 255 B I G G O RJ's.

Who's Elmer? Isn't he the guy that never gets a shot off at the wascally wabbit? Was he a Minnisootan?

Please, please, please, I beg you, get on board an help us negotiate something better.