Delta: Pilots' Strike Is 'Murder-Suicide'

[atlcrashpad]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051114/ap_on_bi_ge/delta

This was on yahoo.com today.

 

[Draginass]

The is the kind of symantic propaganda tripe that the executives in charge of Delta like to spew out to the stupid American public. "Murder-Suicide" indeed. They hype-up the language in hopes of gaining sympathy.

Screw Delta management. They are the ones that are probably lining their own pockets while they drive the company into the ground.

 

[Splinter]

So what if management lined its pockets...all DAL pilots need to think about is the here and now. 1) President Bush would let you walk right after the earth crashes into the sun, 2) Why pi$$ on a fan? You're going to lose something...pick your poison! This isn't permanent, it just stings for a little while. When your kid skins his knee, you tell him this will sting when you pour hydrogen peroxide on it, right? But you tell him the pain goes away soon enough with the right bandaid and enough lube.

Take the blue pill.

 

[A350]

Problem is the Delta boys are faced with, as James Kirk said.....the no win scenario.

If they strike, they lose everything. If they bend over, the numnuts on here will blame them for lowering the bar. There is no such thing as negotiating in BK....it is a slow, painful surrender. Ask any U or UAL pilot......they take what they want and the judge will give it to them because they are the ones running the company.

The Airtran pilots are salivating at the thought that the DAL boys walk.....so be careful what you wish for. When it is over, the NWA boys will get the same treatment. No pension, no jobs for many, and the possibility of a tomorrow. No promises though!

Boomer

 

[HalinTexas]

DALPA won't strike. Mgt. knows this.

They will negotiate something, and the pilots will approve the TA.

This is industry standard.

Thanks ALPA. :angryfire

 

[Spud]

Airtran pilots are not salivating... we do drool when we sleep though...

We understand that a loss for Delta pilots is a loss for all pilots.

 

[Crash Pad]

So ALPA must be in a pinch. Following the money... DAL, ASA, Mesa, Comair, I'm sure I forgot some... Seems like a lot of dues to prove a point. As a regional pilot who missed Airinc I sure hope you guys don't strike.
I know management is full of it and DAL really has trillions of dollars and don't really need pilot concessions blah blah blah.
By the way anyone read the New York Times article about the pensions... I know liberal rag blah blah blah

 

[800Dog]

Airtran pilots are not salivating... we do drool when we sleep though...

We understand that a loss for Delta pilots is a loss for all pilots.

Smart man with a firm grasp of the Big Picture.

 

[Eagleflip]

We understand that a loss for Delta pilots is a loss for all pilots.

Well said, Spud. There is plenty of venom in this industry without adding to the insult via this board.

I wish no ill on the Delta pilot group, but I also don't think this most recent situation is going to resolve gracefully on their behalf.

 

[800Dog]

Problem is the Delta boys are faced with, as James Kirk said.....the no win scenario.

If they strike, they lose everything. If they bend over, the numnuts on here will blame them for lowering the bar. There is no such thing as negotiating in BK....it is a slow, painful surrender. Ask any U or UAL pilot......they take what they want and the judge will give it to them because they are the ones running the company.

The Airtran pilots are salivating at the thought that the DAL boys walk.....so be careful what you wish for. When it is over, the NWA boys will get the same treatment. No pension, no jobs for many, and the possibility of a tomorrow. No promises though!

Boomer

Noone, including you, knows if a strike will cause the Delta Pilots to lose everything. A strike could cause the creditors to lessen their demands. Only one way to find out. No pension, low pay, lack of work rules and poor quality of life. Not much to lose anymore.

 

[tgz2]

From somebody who has grown up with Delta...fight to get as much as you possibly can...but please don't pull an "Eastern Mechanic" job and flush the airline down the drain.

 

[800Dog]

From somebody who has grown up with Delta...fight to get as much as you possibly can...but please don't pull an "Eastern Mechanic" job and flush the airline down the drain.

Eastern mechanics did not flush the airline down the drain. Frank Lorenzo did. Delta management is about to do the same. 50,000 out of work over a 225 million difference in what management says is required from the pilots vs. what is offered. 15 billion or so in annual revenue and 225 million could be the death of Delta. Hard to believe.

 

[mdanno808]

Eastern mechanics did not flush the airline down the drain. Frank Lorenzo did. Delta management is about to do the same. 50,000 out of work over a 225 million difference in what management says is required from the pilots vs. what is offered. 15 billion or so in annual revenue and 225 million could be the death of Delta. Hard to believe.

Amen.

 

[A350]

All:

Hard to believe....but in today's world of BK, that is not correct thinking.

A fact of this business today is this. If you fight them in court, one of two things will happen. You will lose and the company will impose their terms or the judge will decide what you give up and how deep the cuts go. If the job isn't done, meaning the company is unable to restructure post BK and turn a profit, they WILL just come back and ask for more.

Look at the ones who went before you. U and UAL.....look at that blueprint. That is where management is going to go....hell the judge all but said you guys are overpaid.

The only opportunity to save this profession is for all to band together and say enough is enough. The problem is this would have to come from ALPA and DW. He and the pilots of this world right now are not in the mood to do it. If you think they are, hell, then I say we go for it. But right now, there are haves and have nots. The haves aren't going to risk it for the have nots. And that is the common denominator that makes this a losing proposition for pilots today.

A350

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

You know, it just ocurred to me as you metioned ol' DW. When I was at the AirInc deal the other day, I SWEAR the first guy in the JB line was either DW or his exact double!! I must have looked a dozen times over that way...

 

[Ty Webb]

The Airtran pilots are salivating at the thought that the DAL boys walk.....so be careful what you wish for.

Spoken like a true POS.

We don't need or want Delta to go away. We have been profitable and growing at a rate approaching 25% a year in spite of the competition. If Delta went away tomorrow, SWA would be here by Wednesday, and Jet Blue, and Spirit . . . . etc.

Nope, Delta pilot pay cuts just embolden our management to ask for the same thing from us (the answer has been a resounding "NO" from the pilot group, by the way).

If it makes you feel better, you just keep on thinking it, though.

 

[Dizel8]

When I was at the AirInc deal the other day, I SWEAR the first guy in the JB line was either DW or his exact double!!

Oh, he was probably looking for more dues!

 

[RJDC]

Bring it on!

 

[DwayneWorthless]

Air Inc

Hey,
Who said they saw me at the JB booth? I was just getting some change for the ...uh... soda machine... yeah and asking if JB will pay DUES to help a brutha out. So, mind your own bees wax. But you better pay your DUES or else.

 

[A350]

Webb:

Spoken like a realist, not a POS as you say....have you been paying attention the past few years.

Your management may ask you for paycuts sooner than you think. Especially if DAL gets their costs lower. That will put the pinch on Airtran and everyone else who competes with DAL. Fact of the business. DAL's cost disadvantage vis-a-vis Airtran will get less and less as this process unfolds.

However, if your management asks for paycuts when your company is making money, then you can tell them to stuff it. When you are "negotiating" in BK with a judge who thinks you are overpaid, the writing is on the wall. There is no way out. There is pain and more pain. Hardly a choice.

Of course, there will be those who think the DAL guys should go to the mattresses on this and hold up the profession. All that will get you is a spot at the front of the line at the AIR, Inc. conference while the people you gave your career to upgrade and move on.

Not pretty, but at this point that is the way it is.

My advise to the DAL guys is to do whatever it is to save your careers. Worry about your families and your company's ability to compete. Noone is going to help you but YOU.

A350

 

[A350]

Deleted

 

[IAHERJ]

You done yet??

Thanks

 

[A350]

What do you think? Would love to know how that happened.

A350

 

[skykid]

A350 - the thing about computers is, you only have to press the button once. It may take awhile, but your computer will catch up and complete the task.

 

[A350]

Ahhhh.....if only it were that simple.

Problem solved.

A350

 

[LJDRVR]

Eastern mechanics did not flush the airline down the drain. Frank Lorenzo did.

Hey 800Dog, gotta respectfully disagree. If I remember my airline history correctly,The machinist's leadership allowed their personal hatred of Frank Borman to blind them. They forced the board's hand in an effort to oust Borman, putting Lorenzo in the drivers seat. If CB hadn't been so completely consumed with hatred for Borman and not complety driven by a giant ego to win at all costs, Lorenzo wouldn't have been able to purchase Eastern.

The rest of your comments are spot on.

It saddens me that airline leadership is given a free pass by the street, the SEC, the administration and the great unwashed flying public to run their organazations into the ground, then lie to and trick their employees to get concessions. Nobody cares as long as they keep reducing those dreaded labor costs and Aunt Sally can fly to Fort Lauderdale for seventy-nine bucks.

Their day of reckoning is coming.

 

[FDJ2]

"Murder-Suicide"? Sounds like the balance of equities favors a denial of management's motion to reject the DAL PWA.

"In evaluating the balance of the equities, the Court must first consider the prospects of a pilot strike in the event of contract rejection. See Carey, 816 F.2d at 93; Int’l Bhd. of Teamsters v. IML Freight, Inc., 789 F.2d 1460, 1463 (10th Cir. 1986) (reversing a bankruptcy court’s decision permitting rejection because the bankruptcy court failed to consider that the antagonistic labor relations atmosphere made it likely that a damaging work stoppage could result from rejection); In re Garofalo’s Finer Foods, Inc., 117 B.R. 363, 371 (Bankr. N.D. Ill. 1990) (“Courts have utilized various factors in the [§1113] analysis. . . . [including] whether the employees would react to rejection by striking, and if that would injure the debtor.”); cf. In re Pesce Baking Co. Inc., 43 B.R. 949, 961 (Bankr. N.D. Ohio 1984) (denying rejection because “[c]onsidering the risk of a strike or decreased productivity, [the debtor’s] projected savings is highly speculative.”)."

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Nope, Delta pilot pay cuts just embolden our management to ask for the same thing from us

Exactly, if the Delta pilots take a stand it may help everybody.

 

[FlyinGuy]

It is interesting how everyone but the DAL pilots are wanting them to "stand up for our profession." There is no national unity and there will never be. Everyone has to evaluate their own situation and fall on their sword accordingly. The DAL pilots are going to do what each one of us would do. Get the best deal and live with it. There is too much invested in our careers to stand up on principle when we would have to start over with less than half or our earning time left. Best of luck to everyone who has to endure these types of decisions.

 

[800Dog]

Hey 800Dog, gotta respectfully disagree. If I remember my airline history correctly,The machinist's leadership allowed their personal hatred of Frank Borman to blind them. They forced the board's hand in an effort to oust Borman, putting Lorenzo in the drivers seat. If CB hadn't been so completely consumed with hatred for Borman and not complety driven by a giant ego to win at all costs, Lorenzo wouldn't have been able to purchase Eastern.

The rest of your comments are spot on.

It saddens me that airline leadership is given a free pass by the street, the SEC, the administration and the great unwashed flying public to run their organazations into the ground, then lie to and trick their employees to get concessions. Nobody cares as long as they keep reducing those dreaded labor costs and Aunt Sally can fly to Fort Lauderdale for seventy-nine bucks.

Their day of reckoning is coming.

Read Flying the Line. Lorenzo is banned from the aviation industry for a reason.