Delta: Pilots' Strike Is 'Murder-Suicide'

[A350]

Deleted

 

[IAHERJ]

You done yet??

Thanks

 

[A350]

What do you think? Would love to know how that happened.

A350

 

[skykid]

A350 - the thing about computers is, you only have to press the button once. It may take awhile, but your computer will catch up and complete the task.

 

[A350]

Ahhhh.....if only it were that simple.

Problem solved.

A350

 

[LJDRVR]

Eastern mechanics did not flush the airline down the drain. Frank Lorenzo did.

Hey 800Dog, gotta respectfully disagree. If I remember my airline history correctly,The machinist's leadership allowed their personal hatred of Frank Borman to blind them. They forced the board's hand in an effort to oust Borman, putting Lorenzo in the drivers seat. If CB hadn't been so completely consumed with hatred for Borman and not complety driven by a giant ego to win at all costs, Lorenzo wouldn't have been able to purchase Eastern.

The rest of your comments are spot on.

It saddens me that airline leadership is given a free pass by the street, the SEC, the administration and the great unwashed flying public to run their organazations into the ground, then lie to and trick their employees to get concessions. Nobody cares as long as they keep reducing those dreaded labor costs and Aunt Sally can fly to Fort Lauderdale for seventy-nine bucks.

Their day of reckoning is coming.

 

[FDJ2]

"Murder-Suicide"? Sounds like the balance of equities favors a denial of management's motion to reject the DAL PWA.

"In evaluating the balance of the equities, the Court must first consider the prospects of a pilot strike in the event of contract rejection. See Carey, 816 F.2d at 93; Int’l Bhd. of Teamsters v. IML Freight, Inc., 789 F.2d 1460, 1463 (10th Cir. 1986) (reversing a bankruptcy court’s decision permitting rejection because the bankruptcy court failed to consider that the antagonistic labor relations atmosphere made it likely that a damaging work stoppage could result from rejection); In re Garofalo’s Finer Foods, Inc., 117 B.R. 363, 371 (Bankr. N.D. Ill. 1990) (“Courts have utilized various factors in the [§1113] analysis. . . . [including] whether the employees would react to rejection by striking, and if that would injure the debtor.”); cf. In re Pesce Baking Co. Inc., 43 B.R. 949, 961 (Bankr. N.D. Ohio 1984) (denying rejection because “[c]onsidering the risk of a strike or decreased productivity, [the debtor’s] projected savings is highly speculative.”)."

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Nope, Delta pilot pay cuts just embolden our management to ask for the same thing from us

Exactly, if the Delta pilots take a stand it may help everybody.

 

[FlyinGuy]

It is interesting how everyone but the DAL pilots are wanting them to "stand up for our profession." There is no national unity and there will never be. Everyone has to evaluate their own situation and fall on their sword accordingly. The DAL pilots are going to do what each one of us would do. Get the best deal and live with it. There is too much invested in our careers to stand up on principle when we would have to start over with less than half or our earning time left. Best of luck to everyone who has to endure these types of decisions.

 

[800Dog]

Hey 800Dog, gotta respectfully disagree. If I remember my airline history correctly,The machinist's leadership allowed their personal hatred of Frank Borman to blind them. They forced the board's hand in an effort to oust Borman, putting Lorenzo in the drivers seat. If CB hadn't been so completely consumed with hatred for Borman and not complety driven by a giant ego to win at all costs, Lorenzo wouldn't have been able to purchase Eastern.

The rest of your comments are spot on.

It saddens me that airline leadership is given a free pass by the street, the SEC, the administration and the great unwashed flying public to run their organazations into the ground, then lie to and trick their employees to get concessions. Nobody cares as long as they keep reducing those dreaded labor costs and Aunt Sally can fly to Fort Lauderdale for seventy-nine bucks.

Their day of reckoning is coming.

Read Flying the Line. Lorenzo is banned from the aviation industry for a reason.

 

[Peardc10]

Fight another day!

Its sad to see what this industry has turned into, pay is eroding, benefits are diminishing, pensions are going away or reduced. I wanted an airline career and ended up with a job. I really hope this industry turns around, for the pilots, mechanics, and anyone involved in this crazy industry.

I respect the Delta pilots for trying to maintain the dignity of their profession, pay, retirement, etc. In these tough times though its Russian Roulette (employees vs. Mgmt).

I lost my flying job a few years back and you know what.......IT SUCKED!!! Being on the opposite end of the sprectrum really makes you think about the big picture, whats really important - Family! I agree with a previous post that its important to take the pain now, and fight another day. I'm sure DW, and all his krogies, will fight to the death for you...........not. I am always trying to find a plan B in case there is no plan A anymore. I do wish pilots would band together and fight these mgmt pukes, and tell them where to stick it...........in a dream world though..............maybe someday........

I wish the best to the Delta Pilots and families, these are tough times, tough decisions are coming fast. Good Luck!!!

My 5cents worth,

 

[A350]

All:

I see a theme to this thread that I believe is a common misconception about this business.

The airline business is a deregulated (mostly) cutthroat business. When times were good, there was more than enough passengers and money to go around.

Today we have many airlines competing for more and more passengers, but the revenue side has changed. Many of you blame managements. I do in most cases, and in all cases I think they are a bunch of overpaid blowholes. We generally aren't dealing with Lorenzo type management here. We are dealing with management that has watched their business platforms disintegrate under their feet.

Go back in time a few years. Can ANYONE look forward and see U, UAL, NWAC, and DAL in BK, let alone the others? No way. Auntie Paula will get that $79 ticket to FLL. The government considers the airline deregulation experiment a great success. No doubt, labor has been kicked in the teeth. These are facts that cannot be ignored.

I would love to make more money.....that is universal. But if my company cannot afford to stay in business, there is only one way. Fuel and labor are the two biggies. Since they can't control fuel to a large degree, labor gets the whip.

Another observation......many young people got into aviation because it was a career. It has quickly become a job. When the supply of new recruits dwindles, we will get more labor traction.

A350

 

[mnboyev]

Yeah... I drool when I sleep ... I admit it. It must be from the 5 legs a day.

We compete for the same folks in ATL. Kinda.... Well ... not really. Heaven help us if the Orange Belly Money Makers show up in force.

Good Luck to all Delta Aviators. Time will pass and ya'll be back on top of the world in no time. Suck it up. Heck, Ya might even want to throw a wave towards one of us AirTran or ASA fellas... Most feel for the position your in right now.

Sincerely, the pilot profession needs to dig in a bit... If we stick together and not allow ourselves to be divided, we all might get to retire with some prosperity. Or, we may end up like the poor NWA Mechs.... Out sourced !

????

 

[MedFlyer]

Nobody cares as long as they keep reducing those dreaded labor costs and Aunt Sally can fly to Fort Lauderdale for seventy-nine bucks.

Their day of reckoning is coming.

Do you care how much firefighters/police officers in your community are paid?
Do you care how much school teachers in your community are paid?

Are you willing to pay more in taxes so that these folks can make a reasonable living that is commensurate with the responsibility of their jobs?

Do you care that children in 3rd world sweatshops make 10cents an hour so that you can have cheap clothes/electronics at Walmart/Target/BestBuy?

It's funny how pilots get all upset when customers aren't willing to pay more for their services. Yet, how many pilots are willing to pay a premium for all the goods and services they buy/use?

 

[Lawman]

Do you care how much firefighters/police officers in your community are paid?
Do you care how much school teachers in your community are paid?

Are you willing to pay more in taxes so that these folks can make a reasonable living that is commensurate with the responsibility of their jobs?

Do you care that children in 3rd world sweatshops make 10cents an hour so that you can have cheap clothes/electronics at Walmart/Target/BestBuy?

It's funny how pilots get all upset when customers aren't willing to pay more for their services. Yet, how many pilots are willing to pay a premium for all the goods and services they buy/use?

MedFlyer: Good point. You don't really think of those things when you feel you are being kicked in the butt. Having been through Chapter 11 with a previous employer, it is very hard to think of anything other than, "What is gonna happen to my job and my family". It's on your mind all day long, everyday of the week.

 

[Publishers]

We live in a society where a good many think that it is an unalienable right to own a third car, a vacation home, a boat, and a TV screen the size of a football stadium. We are not an empathetic group but live in such a self centered world, we cannot see that many around us suffer.
This storm, like most, is temporary. The effects will be there for some time but for the most part, life in this industry is still better than most.

 

[indiglo]

the delta pilots must do what is right for them. If I were a Delta pilot, I'd advocated the strike for this reason; sooner or later, you have to stand up to the bully. If not you'll never get any respect.

Completely regardless for "the profession", I'd walk just to force resolution NOW. If Delta is poorly managed, they'll under eventually regardless of pilot pay. If they are well managed, the threat of a strike will force them to find a different way to run their business.

Look at history, how many pilot groups have taken concessions over the last four years? How many of those groups have gained any respect by doing so? Take NWA for example, they stood up to the AMFA (and for management) and now management shows their thanks by demanding concessions from the very same employee group that saved their bacon last summer.

The managers like Steenland, Ornstein, Grinstein, (am I seeing a Steen pattern here), etc, will hose the pilots. Period.

Ether stand up now, or forever tuck your tail. I'd rather put up with some cube than to continue to allow the Steenlands of the world to own me. Screw the money.

 

[indiglo]

I can't get back to my improper spelling to edit it out.

I meant to say that poorly managed companies will GO under, and either is spelled either.

sorry

 

[Publishers]

There is no question that management might have done things differently, but that does not tell the whole story and it is easy for someone not vested to make the " go on strike" statements when they do not have what the others do. The industry has changed, it will continue to change, and, from the perspective of pilots may never get back to what they percieve was the correct way of doing things.
One cannot minimize the effect of deregulation, one cannot minimize fuel costs, one cannot minimize internet accessibility, and, all the other aspects of the business that have changed. There are no winners and losers here. There is a new business.

 

[Widow's Son]

The ugly reality is that we need an airline to go away for the benefit of the rest of us. If Delta wants to volunteer, God bless them.