Delta Pilots don't check for frost on wings

[UALRATT]

UALRATT (you and yuppyguppy need to take a chill pill) are we really having a pissing match about who can check ice from where...I think bottom line this comes down to a personal preference of the PIC and IAW company policy and aircraft limitations.

Honestly my opinion is, if a PAX says ice/frost/whatever is on the wing...I am going to sit on the ground until the ice/frost/whatever is melted, because it is a ton easier to explain a 30 minute delay while taxiing out to wait for some frost to melt than to answer to the FAA and Chief Pilot two weeks later when the one passenger wrote a letter to the FAA and the airline about you departing with frost on the wing.

I actually had a situation in BDL where we were cleared into position and hold while a king air took off from the crossing runway, once he was through the intersection we were cleared for takeoff, immediately after our takeoff clearance the king air declared an emergency and they were coming back to the field, tower canceled our clearance and asked us to vacate the runway, which we did...the engines were spooled up but we didn't need to hit the brakes to clear the runway. King air returned, landed and we took off...two weeks later I get a call from the Chief Pilot asking about a runway incursion in BDL and was wondering why I almost took off without clearance...turns out a private pilot wrote a letter to the FAA and the company (actually to Delta it was a DAL Connection flight) and said we took the runway without clearance and almost took off without clearance...luckily it was a matter of the company calling BDL tower and they got the tapes which proved otherwise, but nevertheless not a fun situation to be in.

Thanks Mike but I did take one before I posted cause I really had to...

 

[waveflyer]

Is this still a thread? i won't be catching up to it- but i remember the 1st post. It really ... really was not worth 6 pages... i hope it was hijacked

 

[FO 4 Life]

Is this still a thread? i won't be catching up to it- but i remember the 1st post. It really ... really was not worth 6 pages... i hope it was hijacked

Didn't work...everyone still beating the same horse.

How bout them Cubbies?

 

[ex-nutjeter]

Now that is funny.

You were flying on a major airline, not JimBobs Flying Service. Do you really think the pilot can walk out to the wing and splash it with some hot water? The FAA would go bat $hit you ding dong.

You were provided a seat and got to partake in the miracle of flight. Sorry that safety inconvenienced you.

Before you call someone a ding dong do some research, the FAA does approve the use of Hot Water for de-icing, I have their manual, if you are interested, I can e-mail you a copy, its 122 pages long and clearly states that the FAA approves the use of Hot Water as a de-icing method, the point taken here is that DAL does not allow the use of Hot Water to remove frost, that is now understood.

I also doubt that in their SOP's it says that the use of the Sun is a legal option to de-ice, the FAA would go bat $hit over that one you ding bat, my point is why not go out and look for yourself rather than relying on some passenger's view, I think that is what the poster was trying to say, it seems that the crew did not take that intiative, if they did, maybe it was nothing out there, and they could have left on time

 

[FO 4 Life]

I also doubt that in their SOP's it says that the use of the Sun is a legal option to de-ice, the FAA would go bat $hit over that one you ding bat, my point is why not go out and look for yourself rather than relying on some passenger's view, I think that is what the poster was trying to say, it seems that the crew did not take that intiative, if they did, maybe it was nothing out there, and they could have left on time

I believe that is/was the procedure for SWA in LAS prior to the snow that spanked them. And it is approved by the FAA, btw.

 

[rtmcfi]

Before you call someone a ding dong do some research

I also doubt that in their SOP's it says that the use of the Sun is a legal option to de-ice,

Hey ding dong-
I picked up an airplane yesterday that had been at the maintainance ramp all day. There had been a hard frost overnight. Every plane that went out that morning was deiced. My plane went out in the afternoon. The sun was what deiced my plane. Should I file an asap so the faa does not go bat $hit on me?

 

[SFR]

Nor do we do 1:15 turns or connections.

Get in, get off, get out.

Spend your time with your family or business, not at the dang airport.

Next,
Gup

Oh, you forgot to mention that you kick FAT people off!!!! HA

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Geeze, 6 pages on what some passenger "saw".
I'm glad I fly cargo!

Boxes don't bitch

 

[lineflyer1]

Let me enlighten ya'll,

The wing skin on transport aircraft is so thick that if you spray hot water on it, the temprature of the skin will not rise above freezing and the water refreezes pretty darn fast even if the OAT is above freezing.

Thats why water is diluted with glycol/anti freeze to prevent it from refreezing even if the outside air temp is above freezing, the skin freezes it.

It might work on a Piper or Cessna but not on transport aircraft.

Jeez

 

[waveflyer]

I think there are a lot of pilot's who need to:
1) get their collective noses in their FOM's - your posts are not exactly creating a warm fuzzy about how you're doing the job-
then 2)- have some balls and be a g^dd^mned captain- you know the professional expert who would be knowledgable and competent enough to not worry if a private pilot might write a letter. I've had no more, or less, letters written in than anyone else- but the last thing I'm worried about is explaining myself to a chief or a fed bc I work hard enough to know my job.
We should NOT be returning to the gate ONLY to placate a pax or anyone else. Know your job and do the right thing.

In this case- no one knows anything other than the original poster is a f^cking idiot.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Just to be sure of what some of you are saying.

A passenger (or anyone else) points out a condition that causes him/her concern. The FOM provides definitive guidance for this condition. I should:

1) have the balls to ignore this and depart anyway without further investigation. If the CREW didn't see it, it doesn't count.

2) investigate, see the frost, and have the balls to depart anyway (just to prove that I'm not placating some dumb-ass passenger with a PPL)

3) have the balls to use whatever procedure I think might do the trick.

4) try to get an interview with Mesa after I get my revoked certificates back.

 

[100/hour/5y]

5. Taxi into the sun, set parking brake and read my USA today while the so called frost melts.... "It was within approved spec to takeoff..."
6. Thank the guy getting off the airplane after 2hrs of overs and wish him good luck standing by for the next flight because most flights are running full!

 

[becket]

Hot Water? My azz would be off that plane in 2 seconds if I saw them try that on frost.

 

[waveflyer]

IBNAV8R- don't take that from my post. Do the right thing is pretty clear. My post was in response to posters who fully admit they fly and make decisions to protect against the perception of the ignorant. I have no desire to get into this particular example bc the original post was so bad.
Still believe it's not worth this many comments. Apologies for adding to it. But you're right - I'm not espousing a huge ego in this gig- but rather more competent use of judgement over simply being scared of making a call. And there are plenty who seem to be scared of their own shadow.
If the shoe fits...

 

[crj567]

Wow, note the time and date, I actually agree with Gup!
The origional poster is a doosh bag!
Oh yeah, Gup, all those things I said about you before.......I wish I could start all over and repeat them all!:laugh::laugh:

Yep-

A total "doosh bag." One who likely saw a whole planeload of people saved by an "irate passenger." NO ONE takes off in a swept wing jet with ANY frost on the wing.

WE are lucky this didn't turn ugly.

-While everyone is playing around with "is hot water legal or not," we are all missing the big picture... It really doesn't matter if you are sitting on the freaking equator-if you gots frost, you best not fly! Aviation doesn't need one more bit of bad press right now.