Delta Pilots Association - DPA

[JoeMerchant]

Joe - let me invite you to stop hijacking threads that don't involve you.

Delta scope doesn't affect me? I seem to remember you interjecting your opinions into DALPA matters when you were an ASA pilot...I guess it's different now...

We already have a flow with everyone in seniority order and Puffdriver was right. At the most the difference between the two is .... wait for it .... 0.003%

You have a flowback with Compass...and about 4 slots at Mesaba...Any flowback at ASA or CMR will be met with any and all forms of resistence....

I've never been an advocate of W2 style mergers. W2 is simply one way to evaluate the status quo, including other factors such as equipment type, relative seniority and now, even future attrition. I look to what prior decisions have been and form my expectations on common sense and precedent.

If a senior position at a regional is better than a junior position at a major...Why should the regional pilot go below the major pilot?

I thought you wanted one list, to fix ALPA, stronger scope... is that no longer the case?

I did back in 2000....I've come to the realization that it won't happen....Now I am protecting MY JOB...I don't care what happens to ALPA.....

Sorry folks - reply was a waste of space. Joe added to ignore list, it will not happen again.

I'm kinda dissapointed in your reply...You usually maintain your cool...I must'a hit a nerve....I'm not the only one who has noticed a change since you put the double breasted coat on....I wonder why you are still on the RJDC email distrabution list....

Ignoring my posts won't alter the fact that your MEC continues to put ALPA in a major conflict of interest that will cost it even more money....I got my check from the settlement...did you?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Damn Joey, even I haven't put you on the ignore list. Pretty bad when a former RJDC supporter won't even listen to your crap anymore. :laugh:

Fins is a good guy...He is just getting frustrated and worried as a junior Delta pilot...I don't blame him...

He is still on the RJDC distribution list...I suspect he still supports the cause....

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Delta scope doesn't affect me? I seem to remember you interjecting your opinions into DALPA matters when you were an ASA pilot...I guess it's different now...



You have a flowback with Compass...and about 4 slots at Mesaba...Any flowback at ASA or CMR will be met with any and all forms of resistence....
Lets say for example that moak is able to get an agreement with dal that says something like "any regional flying 70-76 seats will have flowup, but must have unlimited flowdown" When your asa bid comes up for renewal with delta and you use all forms of resistance "Oooh, Scary" you simply lose the flying and it goes to the carrier that plays ball. Whatcha gonna do now big boy???


If a senior position at a regional is better than a junior position at a major...Why should the regional pilot go below the major pilot?
Lets make something clear. A senior posistion at a regional is not better than a junior posistion at a major. The worst posistion at a major is better than the best at a regional. At a major it will only get better. The senior lifer such as yourself has peaked out at that company.


I did back in 2000....I've come to the realization that it won't happen....Now I am protecting MY JOB...I don't care what happens to ALPA.....
Thats find protect your job. We have careers. We will dictate who gets what flying. I'll give you hint...It will be the ones who play ball. No flowback, no flowup and no new shiny toy planes.


I'm kinda dissapointed in your reply...You usually maintain your cool...I must'a hit a nerve....I'm not the only one who has noticed a change since you put the double breasted coat on....I wonder why you are still on the RJDC email distrabution list....

Ignoring my posts won't alter the fact that your MEC continues to put ALPA in a major conflict of interest that will cost it even more money....I got my check from the settlement...did you?

It may cost ALPA money, but it won't cost us ********************. We will leave ALPA before we let a bunch of lifers who don't know their place dictate how the flying is dispersed. Without the mainline dues there won't be an ALPA. Good luck with your new regional airline union.

 

[TurboAWD]

Never said they did. Of course, some did sue in order to try and reign in more. Lest we forget that little tidbit.

Well, I never said "regional" pilots had all the answers, either

However, many mainline pilots DO seem to be under the impression that regional pilots are steeling their flying, forgetting that THEY voted on the contracts that allowed that flying to be outsourced in the first place. That is my primary point.

Turbo

 

[~~~^~~~]

You usually maintain your cool...I must'a hit a nerve....I'm not the only one who has noticed a change since you put the double breasted coat on....I wonder why you are still on the RJDC email distrabution list........I got my check from the settlement...did you?

Joe - For a long time I've been restrained and polite about it, but I'm tired of your innuendo and now when you flat out lie, I'm calling you on it.

We'll kick this around off the board since it is unrelated to the thread, but for the record:

• I am not a supporter of the RJDC, have not been since hearing about the direction settlement was going.
• I objected to the hiring of the RJDC's attorney, objected to the complaint, did not wish to be a class representative, or litigant and was excluded from attorney client (and I assume other internal) distribution lists since I could be deposed and would have to answer and supply any communications received. (now you want to reconsider the lie you told?)
• I received no notice of the settlement, no notice as a class member and certainly did not receive any money. If what you wrote is the truth, the RJDC failed to properly provide notice and distribution (see where this is going?)
• I supported the RJDC when I believed it was an effort to fix scope and obtain one list across our brand's flying. My goal was to return Delta flying to Delta pilots.
• I believed (and argued on this board) that the monetary claim was simply an enforcement mechanism and that the RJDC was a reform minded movement. I was embarrassed by the $600,000.00.
• The RJDC has become an advocate for its own version of predatory scope, using its settlement to attempt sniper shots at other pilots working agreements with the stated goal of scope by type certificates which would result in the outsourcing of the E190 sized jets, then a matrix to continue that path to 737 sized aircraft.

You want to start discussing you now? Gloves are coming off.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I think we understand your point. We have not given it away as much as we have allowed it to be subcontracted by another group. WE still own this flying. It is still a stipulation in OUR contract. WE can take this flying back, with or without the pilots currently doing this flying. This is what the Joe Merchants don't like. They know they don't have a say in this. If WE decide it is important WE will decide how this is done. It may be flowup with flowback for those that wish to play. Pay to play. Those that don't, most likely the so called established regionals which are top heavy with lifers with dreams of grandeur(getting that number at a major without applying), will most likely lose flying in the future and wither away as more amiable groups have the airframes shifted to them.

Well, I never said "regional" pilots had all the answers, either

However, many mainline pilots DO seem to be under the impression that regional pilots are steeling their flying, forgetting that THEY voted on the contracts that allowed that flying to be outsourced in the first place. That is my primary point.

Turbo

 

[TurboAWD]

I think we understand your point. We have not given it away as much as we have allowed it to be subcontracted by another group. WE still own this flying. It is still a stipulation in OUR contract. WE can take this flying back, with or without the pilots currently doing this flying.

Good luck. It will be difficult but it is worth doing. It would be to the benefit of all pilots to do it in a way that attempts to be fair to the pilots currently doing the flying. Difficult, I know.

Turbo

 

[outtahere]

You know what, you arrogant pricks are forgetting one little point. As soon as these. Contracts are signed with this flying that you "own", it is no longer your flying. ASA has a contract with Delta for x number of airframes, you can put whatever you want in your next contract for all future flying, but what we are doing today we will be doing until our contract with Delta is up. Last time I checked, Skywest Inc didn't sit down with Dalpa to negotiate their lift agreement. Also personally I don't give a ******************** if y'all like us or respect us cause I can tell you the feeling is mutual. Nothing puts a smile on my face faster than getting the last seat on an ASA airplane and leaving a Delta guy behind. Remember it was your grand plan to change our boarding priority after we were sold so that you all could bump our senior guys off your a/c. Guess y'all forgot that alot of your pilots commute out of most of the cities we service. And one more thing, I don't want a staple to anybodys list. I'm perfectly fine where I am thanks. If I want a job at Delta I will apply, though I don't see that happening, I could never amass an ego big enough to fill the double breasted jacket.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You know what, you arrogant pricks are forgetting one little point. As soon as these. Contracts are signed with this flying that you "own", it is no longer your flying. ASA has a contract with Delta for x number of airframes, you can put whatever you want in your next contract for all future flying, but what we are doing today we will be doing until our contract with Delta is up. Last time I checked, Skywest Inc didn't sit down with Dalpa to negotiate their lift agreement. Also personally I don't give a ******************** if y'all like us or respect us cause I can tell you the feeling is mutual. Nothing puts a smile on my face faster than getting the last seat on an ASA airplane and leaving a Delta guy behind. Remember it was your grand plan to change our boarding priority after we were sold so that you all could bump our senior guys off your a/c. Guess y'all forgot that alot of your pilots commute out of most of the cities we service. And one more thing, I don't want a staple to anybodys list. I'm perfectly fine where I am thanks. If I want a job at Delta I will apply, though I don't see that happening, I could never amass an ego big enough to fill the double breasted jacket.

Nice... if you get on my jet we'll try to get you in First Class, where you can enjoy a dinner and a movie while we treat you with respect on your vacation or where ever it is you are going. You'll feel special, but we make the same effort for all of our passengers. Part of being a professional.

One thing that will hold you back, is your attitude. If you ever decide to interview, be sure to tell that story. Each time I interviewed, there were commuters on the panel. Helping other pilots get home is probably what got me hired.

But being a whipsaw subsidiary of a non union carrier is probably the best long term gig on the planet, you probably will never need to interview.

 

[Linedriver]

Nothing puts a smile on my face faster than getting the last seat on an ASA airplane and leaving a Delta guy behind.

It's too bad you feel that way and I'm glad you are the minority in your thinking. As a 'Delta guy' and a commuter, I hate to see anyone get left behind for the trip home - even you.

 

[Fly4hire]

If a senior position at a regional is better than a junior position at a major...Why should the regional pilot go below the major pilot?

BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WORK FOR THE MAJOR

He can earn his position on the bottom of the seniority list like countless pilots before him - fill out an application, qualify for an interview, and make the cut.

Your, and those few who share your unearned sense of entitlement turns off anyone who might remotely support an integration.

 

[Fly4hire]

You know what, you arrogant pricks are forgetting one little point. As soon as these. Contracts are signed with this flying that you "own" it is no longer your flying.

Point of order - when your air services agreement for this flying expires, DAL can choose not to renew the contract, and you and "your" flying go bye-bye.

You have no right to continuing this contacted lift other than the terms of the (by it's nature) limited duration contract.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You know what, you arrogant pricks are forgetting one little point. As soon as these. Contracts are signed with this flying that you "own", it is no longer your flying. ASA has a contract with Delta for x number of airframes, you can put whatever you want in your next contract for all future flying, but what we are doing today we will be doing until our contract with Delta is up. Last time I checked, Skywest Inc didn't sit down with Dalpa to negotiate their lift agreement. Also personally I don't give a ******************** if y'all like us or respect us cause I can tell you the feeling is mutual. Nothing puts a smile on my face faster than getting the last seat on an ASA airplane and leaving a Delta guy behind. Remember it was your grand plan to change our boarding priority after we were sold so that you all could bump our senior guys off your a/c. Guess y'all forgot that alot of your pilots commute out of most of the cities we service. And one more thing, I don't want a staple to anybodys list. I'm perfectly fine where I am thanks. If I want a job at Delta I will apply, though I don't see that happening, I could never amass an ego big enough to fill the double breasted jacket.

This my friend is the definition of unprofessional.
Do not start this battle, it is not one that your ASA brethren would like you to start.
Further more, your contract is with ASA management who has a contract with delta to provide lift at a contracted rate. (This is a simplistic version but it will suffice) Fact is that you work for a contract carrier

To make it even more simple. Your flying is no more yours than World's flying is. They perform that work on a contract basis, as you do.

 

[PuffDriver]

To make it even more simple. Your flying is no more yours than World's flying is. They perform that work on a contract basis, as you do.

Sums it up perfectly.

All flying done for Delta is done within the bounds of the Delta contract. The Delta contract is negotiated between Delta and the Delta pilots.

The poor soul who takes pleasure in seeing Delta pilots left at the gate, anonymously on FI of course, answers another's question of why regional pilots don't get respect.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Joe - For a long time I've been restrained and polite about it, but I'm tired of your innuendo and now when you flat out lie, I'm calling you on it.

We'll kick this around off the board since it is unrelated to the thread, but for the record:

• I am not a supporter of the RJDC, have not been since hearing about the direction settlement was going.
• I objected to the hiring of the RJDC's attorney, objected to the complaint, did not wish to be a class representative, or litigant and was excluded from attorney client (and I assume other internal) distribution lists since I could be deposed and would have to answer and supply any communications received. (now you want to reconsider the lie you told?)
• I received no notice of the settlement, no notice as a class member and certainly did not receive any money. If what you wrote is the truth, the RJDC failed to properly provide notice and distribution (see where this is going?)
• I supported the RJDC when I believed it was an effort to fix scope and obtain one list across our brand's flying. My goal was to return Delta flying to Delta pilots.
• I believed (and argued on this board) that the monetary claim was simply an enforcement mechanism and that the RJDC was a reform minded movement. I was embarrassed by the $600,000.00.
• The RJDC has become an advocate for its own version of predatory scope, using its settlement to attempt sniper shots at other pilots working agreements with the stated goal of scope by type certificates which would result in the outsourcing of the E190 sized jets, then a matrix to continue that path to 737 sized aircraft.

You want to start discussing you now? Gloves are coming off.

Fins-
Thanks for the background info. I don't even have the guy on an ignoe list... I just do....

 

[outtahere]

Let me clarify, I do not leave any commuters behind when I am the Captain flying the flight. I believe in Karma and just would'nt do that to another commuter. No my joy comes when I am commuting myself and a Delta pilot gets left behind because the plane is full. See that is Karma at its best there.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

You know what, you arrogant pricks are forgetting one little point. As soon as these. Contracts are signed with this flying that you "own", it is no longer your flying. ASA has a contract with Delta for x number of airframes, you can put whatever you want in your next contract for all future flying, but what we are doing today we will be doing until our contract with Delta is up. Exactly. You work for a sub-contractor, who with the stroke of a pen can lose its contract. Last time I checked, Skywest Inc didn't sit down with Dalpa to negotiate their lift agreement. They did not sit with DALPA directly, but the ability to sit with delta mgmt to bid on said flying is because a cut out in DALPAs contract. You see, while it appears to you we have no say, we do. Your job is only as good as your contracting company to do the job cheaper than the next contractor at renewal time. This is what makes lifers such as yourself angry, nervous, jealours etc. You have seen guys junior to yourself leave over the years and there you sit. Also personally I don't give a ******************** if y'all like us or respect us cause I can tell you the feeling is mutual. Alot of us came from the commuters. We don't dislike most of y'all, just the Joey's, and I guess I'll add you along with the rjdc LOOSERS. Nothing puts a smile on my face faster than getting the last seat on an ASA airplane and leaving a Delta guy behind. No problem. Call in honest works great. Remember it was your grand plan to change our boarding priority after we were sold so that you all could bump our senior guys off your a/c. Why shouldn't they go ahead of someone who is a subsiderary/contractor? Guess y'all forgot that alot of your pilots commute out of most of the cities we service. And one more thing, I don't want a staple to anybodys list. I'm perfectly fine where I am thanks. If I want a job at Delta I will apply, though I don't see that happening, I could never amass an ego big enough to fill the double breasted jacket. Pretty sure you could not make it thru the process. Then once you were shot down and more of your fos get hired, that chip on your shoulder would just be that much bigger. Thats why you are where you are. Hell, there is about 5000 of us delta pilots that had to sneak in thru the back door

 

[outtahere]

They must really pump your head full of ******************** in indoc when you go to Delta. " You guys are now the cream of the crop of all airline pilots" and you morons believe it. I don't have the desire to go to a major because it would negatively impact my quality of life for a long time, not to mention the very real possibility of a furlough that I just cannot afford. Then you couple that with flying with some of these Delta pricks, and the fact that I just could never think that I was the uber pilot and all the little regional pukes should bow down. All that together makes me think that I'd rather stay at ASA and bet on the fact that Delta pilots, as egotistical as they are, will never sacrafice a single penny in their contract for scope. Personally, I feel pretty secure at ASA, matter of fact, I think there will come a day when we are flying much larger aircraft because you guys can't quit compenstaing for having a little dick.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

They must really pump your head full of ******************** in indoc when you go to Delta. Have not been to indoc yet. I believe we FNWers are supposed to get some form of initiation at fort widget this fall. We are going to be eased thru this transition as sky gods in phases. Have to take it slow, so our heads don't explode. Uniforms, end of March. That alone will give most of us greater feeling of superiority. Then the final transformation in the fall, where we learn the secret handshake and codewords. At that point, you may bow at our feet. " You guys are now the cream of the crop of all airline pilots" I am glad you are finally seeing the light. and you morons believe it. I don't have the desire to go to a major because it would negatively impact my quality of life for a long time(translation. I missed the boat in the early 90s, then again in the late 90s, married a asa fa, had a few pups, watched all my former fos and current fos get hired at other majors while I was enjoying my seniority. Now I wake up and I'm 45 and still at a company that is subject to losing its contract every 5-10 yrs as the flying shifts around to the lowest seniority group), not to mention the very real possibility of a furlough that I just cannot afford. Then you couple that with flying with some of these Delta pricks, and the fact that I just could never think that I was the uber pilot and all the little regional pukes should bow down. All that together makes me think that I'd rather stay at ASA and bet on the fact that Delta pilots, as egotistical as they are, will never sacrafice a single penny in their contract for scope. Personally, I feel pretty secure at ASA, matter of fact, I think there will come a day when we are flying much larger aircraft because you guys can't quit compenstaing for having a little dick.

Good luck. Everyone has to have a dream.

 

[propdog]

Personally, I feel pretty secure at ASA, matter of fact, I think there will come a day when we are flying much larger aircraft because you guys can't quit compensating for having a little dick.

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
If a senior position at a regional is better than a junior position at a major...Why should the regional pilot go below the major pilot?

Until unless you start applying to majors, you won't be flying anything bigger at ASA.

But if you're happy with what you're flying and your quality of life, nothing wrong with flying for ASA. But as others mentioned, you are a contractor for Delta. You are not entitled to ANY flying at Delta.

By the way, I too worked my a$$ off at a regional hoping to make it to a major. I left my seat at regional (worth +$75,000/year) and a very good quality of life to go to a major and start at the bottom making $30,000 sitting reserve in Anchorage. That is an investment I made towards my future....I feel more secure flying for the 'airline' itself and not a contractor.

Is my job 100% secure....NO. However, if we bring a regional carrier (eg: Compass) under our group...do not for a second think that it will be anything but STRAIGHT STAPLE. We Paid the price....took huge cuts in salary and QOL to work for a major....you didn't...so please stand in line. Thanks.
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