Delta, Northwest Focus On Joint Pilot Contract

[jke406]

A truer statement could not be made. However, they do need us.

face it...there is nothing a mainline pilot can do for $100/hr that a Virgin America, Skybus, regional, or Flight Simulator X pilot won't do for $40/hr.

 

[Tanker Clown]

face it...there is nothing a mainline pilot can do for $100/hr that a Virgin America, Skybus, regional, or Flight Simulator X pilot won't do for $40/hr.

....or a Delta pilot will do for $40/hr after accepting a paycut.

 

[BoilerUP]

The Spite which was placed on furloughed Delta Pilots has not been forgotten, even by those not affected by it.

You are following a logical fallacy.

William

No point in punishing all Comair pilots simply because of the decisions made by their previous MEC.

THAT would be illogical.

 

[Bill Mostellar]

You have proposed a reasonable solution regarding intergration.

I wish that you had been as vocal about a reasonable solution during the Delta Furloughs.

William

PS - I was never furloughed.

If they want to merge they have to have the pilots support which gives the pilots something they haven't had in many, many years...leverage.

If I were in charge I would cherry pick the best work rules and ask for the highest pay between the two companies, then I would merge the mainline lists on a percentage basis respecting wide body and narrow body differences (this is a little more difficult than I make it sound, but doable). Further I would merge Comair, Mesaba, and Compass onto the same list stapled to the bottom of the mainline list and scope out any additional outsourced airframes. All existing contracts will be honored but any additional flying within the DeltaWest system would be flown by DeltaWest pilots (crazy concept, eh?).

Notice I wouldn't ask for a large pay and benefit raise, but I have set up a contract which will give the pilots a lot of leverage when it becomes amendable.

Oh, and free valet service.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Seconded!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

NW and DAL pilots should be VERY VERY careful about anything the dictators in management come up with. You can bet they're going to try and give the pilots the "bum's rush" to get a deal done super quick. The manta will be "just sign it and we'll work out any problems later."

DAL and NW pilots have been been bent over the table by these executive pirates. I hope they've had enough of being humiliated and are going to stand their ground.

amen brother.....keep preaching.....I hope the MEC is listening

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

No point in punishing all Comair pilots simply because of the decisions made by their previous MEC.

THAT would be illogical.

The point of the matter is when the furloughs went down...,....1 guy tried to recall the MEC at Comair and got beat down. Everybody there was happy with what was going down. They put their boot in the eye of a furloughed pilot (notice I didn't say DELTA).

That pilot group used furloughees as pawns in their scope politics.......no matter how you spin it...IT'S WRONG!!!! All these guys wanted was an entry FO job, not a flowdown....A JOB and they still stuck it up their A$$

The whole group on the property at that time deserves no interview with Delta. Those that came after the fact are along for the ride....we all make choices and the junior guys made theirs by going to Comair without research.

This is all about righteous retribution.....A lesson needs to be learned....never turn your back on a guy down on his luck, mainline, commuter, cargo.....you just fdon't do it. It's a tough lesson, but one that can be passed on. Plenty of other outfits are hiring and to quote JC Lawson....I think "it would be unsafe" if I had a Comair pilot in my cockpit.

 

[N2264J]

The Spite which was placed on furloughed Delta Pilots has not been forgotten, even by those not affected by it.

So to be clear. The Delta pilots expected the Comair pilots to give something up out of their already humble contract to offset the training costs of putting Delta furloughees in Comair seats plus whatever scheduling burdens may come to the Comair pilot group from 20 - 30 furloughees a month being called back to mainline, which manifests itself as junior manning and extentions.

What seems to go unsaid in the Delta pilot group is that all ALPA furloughees were welcomed at Comair. In fact, I've flown with United and US Airways furloughees who didn't seem to have a hard-on about being here. The only pilot group that suffers from the much ballyhooed righteous indignation are the Delta pilots who seem to have this "birthright" sense of entitlement.

Look, the Delta furloughees could have simply been displaced to Comair and ASA aircraft had the DMEC championed a merged seniority list in 2000. They didn't. We're separate. You got what you wanted.

And before you respond with the old saw about how a merger was impossible, it is the right of union employees to "bargain collectively" under federal law.

So stop the sanctimonious pouting about being treated like everybody else. Your MEC tried strong arming the little-regional-commuter-feeder-farm team and it didn't work. Smear is all you have left.

 

[jke406]

So to be clear. The Delta pilots expected the Comair pilots to give something up out of their already humble contract to offset the training costs of putting Delta furloughees in Comair seats plus whatever scheduling burdens may come to the Comair pilot group from 20 - 30 furloughees a month being called back to mainline, which manifests itself as junior manning and extentions.

ASA didn't seem to have a problem with it.

Which is probably why ASA pilots must be getting hired by the dozen at Delta, while Comair pilots are probably an exception.

 

[737 Pylt]

So to be clear. The Delta pilots expected the Comair pilots to give something up out of their already humble contract to offset the training costs of putting Delta furloughees in Comair seats plus whatever scheduling burdens may come to the Comair pilot group from 20 - 30 furloughees a month being called back to mainline, which manifests itself as junior manning and extentions.

Um......What costs junior? How was this coming out of the pockets of the comair pilots?

What seems to go unsaid in the Delta pilot group is that all ALPA furloughees were welcomed at Comair. In fact, I've flown with United and US Airways furloughees who didn't seem to have a hard-on about being here.

Were they asked to resign their seniority numbers from their carriers like the DL furloughees were?

The only pilot group that suffers from the righteous indignation are the Delta pilots who seem to have this "birthright" sense of entitlement.

Translation:
I can't get hired at a legacy because I have something in my background keeping me stuck here!

Look, the Delta furloughees could have simply been displaced to Comair and ASA aircraft had the DMEC championed a merged seniority list in 2000. They didn't. We're separate. You got what you wanted.

A seniority steal is not a merged seniority list sparky!

And before you respond with the old saw about how a merger was impossible, it is the right of union employees to "bargain collectively" under federal law.

Then they file a frivilous lawsuit costing millions to union workers, and the only one getting paid, was the lawyer! You guys are genius!

So stop the sanctimonious pouting about being treated like everybody else. It just doesn't wash anymore.

I'll be singing that same tune at your liquidation party!

737

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

So to be clear. The Delta pilots expected the Comair pilots to give something up out of their already humble contract to offset the training costs of putting Delta furloughees in Comair seats plus whatever scheduling burdens may come to the Comair pilot group from 20 - 30 furloughees a month being called back to mainline, which manifests itself as junior manning and extentions.

What seems to go unsaid in the Delta pilot group is that all ALPA furloughees were welcomed at Comair. In fact, I've flown with United and US Airways furloughees who didn't seem to have a hard-on about being here. The only pilot group that suffers from the much ballyhooed righteous indignation are the Delta pilots who seem to have this "birthright" sense of entitlement.

Look, the Delta furloughees could have simply been displaced to Comair and ASA aircraft had the DMEC championed a merged seniority list in 2000. They didn't. We're separate. You got what you wanted.

And before you respond with the old saw about how a merger was impossible, it is the right of union employees to "bargain collectively" under federal law.

So stop the sanctimonious pouting about being treated like everybody else. It just doesn't wash anymore.

WE ARE CRYSTAL.....

In that line of thinking....So you mean to tell me the hundreds of thousands of dollars your pilots incurred against my airline because of your strike is really not your problem?? Sounds pretty stupid huh?? Just like your arguement about the "burden" of junior manning (GASP)....

Nothing had to be given up by taking a furloughed pilot....I guess you must be deeply worried about your attrition rate now at your humble airline, I'm sure you stay awake at night worried who's going to pay for it....

In your typical arrogance, you point out the COST to your group of taking on a new-hire furloughee......It never even crossed the minds of the ASA people....I guess once more 70 seaters came into play, you welcomed everybody with open arms.....Pathetic..'

You're welcome for the strike payout and I hope your strike advanced your deeply humble Pilot contract.

 

[N2264J]

ASA didn't seem to have a problem with it.

ASA management came from Delta management. Additionally, ASA does not have the company policy of dropping your current seniority number when hired.

Which is probably why ASA pilots must be getting hired by the dozen at Delta, while Comair pilots are probably an exception.

If ASA were still a wholly owned, the hiring ratio would be about the same. When a Comair pilot is hired, Delta pays for three training events; when an ASA pilot is hired, they pay for one training event.

Contrary to what the Delta pilots claim, an internal union dispute has no bearing on Delta's hiring practice. Management couldn't care less.

Come to think of it, you shills do management's bidding by continually exacerbating and perpetrating our union's internal conflicts with your pet wedge issues.

 

[N2264J]

So you mean to tell me the hundreds of thousands of dollars your pilots incurred against my airline because of your strike is really not your problem??

Originally posted in December 2006:

Greenslipping is a contractural right...

Yes, we've heard that before. The Delta pilots have every right to exersize their seniority and pick up open time as fast as it is published. Even though that has the affect of keeping furloughed pilots furloughed when the line guys fly all that extra time. So why the bitterness for Comair pilots who wanted a quid from the Delta MEC in the form of Brand Scope to buy a company policy change and allow Delta furloughees to keep their number?

I've been wondering about this for years. Then it hit me.

When the Comair pilots went on strike, it cost Delta, by their own admission, some $680 million dollars. That's $680 million dollars no longer available to say, fund a pension plan or help finance new aircraft for mainline pilots to fly. Many had Delta stock in their 401K and the strike had an adverse impact on its value. So I think it's reasonable to assume the Delta pilots have a deep seated resentment and animosity toward Comair pilots for striking their airline.

They say we are separate airlines but that's not the way it really is, is it?

Everyone knows the "regionals" are supposed to be a stepping stone and not a career. But the Delta pilots wouldn't be able to say what they really felt because the strike was considered throughout the industry, both inside and outside of ALPA, by mainline and "regional" alike, as a success.

As accolades were showered on Comair pilots, mainline pilots gritted their teeth - only three people crossed the line (one ex management, one already retired) and Comair pilots were praised for their unity while the mainliners bit their tongues. Comair pilots got to wear a star on their ALPA wings and while the Delta pilots couldn't, their ears were turning red, as a benchmark symbol of the "pecking order" was stood on its head.

The accrimony grew and they needed a canard so they could dis the Comair pilots under the guise of "union brothers as victims." Enter the furloughees.

So while Delta pilots were picking up open time as fast as they could, they slam Comair pilots about a company policy.

 

[jke406]

[SIZE=-1]Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul...[/SIZE]

 

[~~~^~~~]

Just curious - since Delta owns Comair + DMEC's position is all flying is Delta flying + DMEC was in negotiations with Delta Management (who runs Comair) why didn't the Delta MEC simply negotiate a side letter with Comair's superior changing the policy?

The Delta pilots had a SLOA for bid restricted Second Officers to come fly at ASA (while keeping both seniority numbers) until they met Delta's requirements and could go back to Delta in the right seat. I don't know if anyone did it, but the agreement was there. Although the ASA group welcomed the Delta pilots during the furlough, it was a continuation of a long standing policy - not a change.

The Delta furloghees who came to ASA were really good folks; excellent pilots with good attitudes.

 

[737 Pylt]

[SIZE=-1]Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul...[/SIZE]

No jerk, you're the only one dumber!
Get back to sharpening pencils please, besides its now time to clean the toilets. Move it private!

737

 

[jke406]

Get back to sharpening pencils please, besides its now time to clean the toilets. Move it private!

737

I haven't been in the military in several years.

But thank you for diminishing the sacrifices and contributions of our current military members (especially the junior enlisted ranks).

Perhaps you should move to Berkeley or join Code Pink, you ungrateful degenerate.

 

[N2264J]

I'll be singing that same tune at your liquidation party!
737

Really?

Weren't you suspended the last time for this kind of potty mouth?

 

[737 Pylt]

Really?

Weren't you suspended the last time for this kind of potty mouth?

Nope, it was for accusing a certain group of pilots of being scabs! There's no potty mouth here junior!
How'd that suit work out for ya sparky? You get all that back money paid to Haber? I hear his house on the hamptons is getting ready to be painted.

737

 

[N2264J]

There's no potty mouth here junior!

That would be "Captain" junior to you, First Officer Pyle. Don't you have a walk around to do or something?