Delta, Northwest Focus On Joint Pilot Contract

[Tantrum]

From Wall Street Journal online...I don't have access to the full article, so if someone else does could you please post it. I don't remember any airlines ever trying to do this...could be interesting. Also could be why we haven't heard much from DALPA lately.


Delta, Northwest Focus On Joint Pilot Contract




By Susan Carey and Paulo Prada
Word Count: 620 | Companies Featured in This Article: Delta Air Lines, Northwest Airlines, US Airways Group, UAL, Air France-KLM
Executives at Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp. are trying to build a common labor contract for the 11,000 pilots at both airlines before they complete a merger deal, according to people familiar with the matter.
The negotiations, considered essential for smooth integration of those key labor groups, center on organizing a fair way of forming a unified, seniority-based roster. Without a prior agreement, talks with those pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, are tasks that could take years of bargaining to accomplish.
Delta and Northwest want to quickly achieve the synergies that would flow from...

 

[knightflyer]

Delta, Northwest Focus
n Joint Pilot Contract
By SUSAN CAREY and PAULO PRADA -- WSJ
February 9, 2008

Executives at Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp. are trying to build a common labor contract for the 11,000 pilots at both airlines before they complete a merger deal, according to people familiar with the matter.

The negotiations, considered essential for smooth integration of those key labor groups, center on organizing a fair way of forming a unified, seniority-based roster. Without a prior agreement, talks with those pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, are tasks that could take years of bargaining to accomplish.

Delta and Northwest want to quickly achieve the synergies that would flow from a merger and avoid a messy, protracted labor wrangle that could arise if they wait to get pilots' agreements after a merger were announced or consummated, those people said. US Airways Group Inc. and America West Airlines, which merged in 2005, still haven't been able to integrate their pilots, leading to inefficiencies and hard feelings.

The pilot talks, which also include provisions for pilots to get equity in the combined carrier, are determining the pace for what otherwise is viewed as a straightforward transaction, said one person close to the situation. Because the pilot talks could lead to improved contract terms for both groups compared with their current contracts, the union is engaged, one person said.

Still, it is taking time despite a rush by executives to complete merger discussions quickly in hopes of getting approval by regulators this year. Given the ongoing discussions, people familiar with the situation said, Delta and Northwest might not be able to finalize their proposed merger until late next week at the earliest.

For Delta, an agreement with pilots is crucial because they represent the carrier's only major labor union. The possibility of a merger, however, is leading other labor groups to grow increasingly vocal.

Labor organizers among Delta flight attendants recently received enough support to make plans next week to announce a vote on whether to join the Association of Flight Attendants, a national union. The attendants now have support from well over half of the airline's 12,000 flight attendants, according to people familiar with their efforts, and next week they are expected to file their plans for a vote with the National Mediation Board.

Betsy Talton, a spokeswoman for Delta, said the airline is "not surprised" by the attendants' plans and that the airline continues to believe that "Delta employees have always benefited from a direct relationship with management." She declined to comment on any negotiations with Northwest or the pilots. Northwest also declined to comment on merger talks.

Delta directors, who met Thursday and Friday, were given a presentation of what a combined airline would look like, said one person familiar with the situation. Though Delta has also discussed a merger with UAL Corp.'s United Airlines, according to people familiar with those discussions, talks with Northwest have been more productive.

Delta's board was also briefed on several other points in the deal negotiations, the person familiar with the meeting said.

The role of Doug Steenland, Northwest's chief executive officer, in a merged company has been resolved, two people familiar with the discussions said. While Mr. Steenland wouldn't be a member of the executive management team, he could take part as a board member.

One point that must be resolved is the possibility that Air France-KLM SA, which has marketing ties with both Delta and Northwest, could invest nearly $1 billion in a combined carrier, according to people familiar with the situation. A spokeswoman for Air France in the U.S. said corporate investments must be addressed by the airline's offices in France; a representative in Paris couldn't be reached late Friday.

Write to Susan Carey at susan.carey wsj.com and Paulo Prada at paulo.prada wsj.com

 

[Deadalus]

Ahhhhh, grasshopper I seee yu lurn qickly. If our brilliant leader had done this we wouldn't be in this mess.

Oh you East guys want the West stapled, how about I pull the offer. By the way you have less than a months cash left. What's that you say? You're ready to negotiate. Ahhh, I see.

It could have been that simple.

 

[DrewBlows]

If they want to merge they have to have the pilots support which gives the pilots something they haven't had in many, many years...leverage.

If I were in charge I would cherry pick the best work rules and ask for the highest pay between the two companies, then I would merge the mainline lists on a percentage basis respecting wide body and narrow body differences (this is a little more difficult than I make it sound, but doable). Further I would merge Comair, Mesaba, and Compass onto the same list stapled to the bottom of the mainline list and scope out any additional outsourced airframes. All existing contracts will be honored but any additional flying within the DeltaWest system would be flown by DeltaWest pilots (crazy concept, eh?).

Notice I wouldn't ask for a large pay and benefit raise, but I have set up a contract which will give the pilots a lot of leverage when it becomes amendable.

Oh, and free valet service.

 

[Varmint]

If they want to merge they have to have the pilots support which gives the pilots something they haven't had in many, many years...leverage.

If I were in charge I would cherry pick the best work rules and ask for the highest pay between the two companies, then I would merge the mainline lists on a percentage basis respecting wide body and narrow body differences (this is a little more difficult than I make it sound, but doable). Further I would merge Comair, Mesaba, and Compass onto the same list stapled to the bottom of the mainline list and scope out any additional outsourced airframes. All existing contracts will be honored but any additional flying within the DeltaWest system would be flown by DeltaWest pilots (crazy concept, eh?).

Notice I wouldn't ask for a large pay and benefit raise, but I have set up a contract which will give the pilots a lot of leverage when it becomes amendable.

Oh, and free valet service.

I say leave comair out to dry. Do you really think the Delta pilots want all the Comair pilots on their list after the crap they pulled with the Delta furloughs.

I guess JC's Dad would be really really proud of him if he got all the way to Delta instead of just comair by riding on the backs of all the furloughed Delta pilots.

 

[Texx]

From Wall Street Journal online...I don't have access to the full article, so if someone else does could you please post it. I don't remember any airlines ever trying to do this...could be interesting. Also could be why we haven't heard much from DALPA lately.


Delta, Northwest Focus On Joint Pilot Contract




By Susan Carey and Paulo Prada
Word Count: 620 | Companies Featured in This Article: Delta Air Lines, Northwest Airlines, US Airways Group, UAL, Air France-KLM
Executives at Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp. are trying to build a common labor contract for the 11,000 pilots at both airlines before they complete a merger deal, according to people familiar with the matter.
The negotiations, considered essential for smooth integration of those key labor groups, center on organizing a fair way of forming a unified, seniority-based roster. Without a prior agreement, talks with those pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, are tasks that could take years of bargaining to accomplish.
Delta and Northwest want to quickly achieve the synergies that would flow from...

So are we talking RED, GREEN and BLUE books?

 

[DrewBlows]

I say leave comair out to dry. Do you really think the Delta pilots want all the Comair pilots on their list after the crap they pulled with the Delta furloughs.

I guess JC's Dad would be really really proud of him if he got all the way to Delta instead of just comair by riding on the backs of all the furloughed Delta pilots.

This is the reason my plan could never happen. You are basically saying Delta pilots would put spite against Comair pilots above what would be best for their careers.

To me this is an opportunity to get back scope. Scope equals leverage.

 

[Noserider76]

This is the reason my plan could never happen. You are basically saying Delta pilots would put spite against Comair pilots above what would be best for their careers.

To me this is an opportunity to get back scope. Scope equals leverage.

There is a good chance, in my opinion, that we'll see Compass, Comair, and Mesaba packaged up and sold to help make this deal happen.

 

[Max Powers]

There is a good chance, in my opinion, that we'll see Compass, Comair, and Mesaba packaged up and sold to help make this deal happen.

You can make book that at least one will be sold with comair at top of list. Sad to say.

 

[~~~^~~~]

There is a good chance, in my opinion, that we'll see Compass, Comair, and Mesaba packaged up and sold to help make this deal happen.

Maybe. I'm hearing that rumor with Republic as the buyer.

I still would prefer one list as a huge step to get scope back under control. I do not care who owns it, if it does Delta flying, then a Delta pilot should be at the controls. With the DC-9's going away, and that flying going out to contractors, Delta pilots could see the same furlough scenario unfold that happened in the first decade of this century all over again.

What I am curious about is how these contract negotiations are being done without any polling or membership feedback. To resolve the NWA contract I assume their compensation would come up to at least Delta levels, but the Delta pilots do not have NWA's pensions (which is why they have these super concessionary rates).

Then there is the bilateral flow through.

Then there is contradictory scope language.

Then there is the issue of Delta's new hires on aircraft that a 13 year NWA pilot can't hold.

Seems like a lot to negotiate, especially if being done quickly. If management just rolls over the airline will likely have costs far above its' competition. If the union just rolls over the hegemony will fall apart pretty quick.

The Delta MEC sure appears to be on the right track, but the work to do a deal this big, this quick, must be immense.

 

[DrewBlows]

There is a good chance, in my opinion, that we'll see Compass, Comair, and Mesaba packaged up and sold to help make this deal happen.

That may very well be the case. In Compass' case there is language in the NWA contract that prevents a sale until certain mainline fleet requirements are met. I don't know what restrictions Comair or Mesaba may have. Of course anything can be negotiated.

 

[Noserider76]

Maybe. I'm hearing that rumor with Republic as the buyer.

I still would prefer one list as a huge step to get scope back under control. I do not care who owns it, if it does Delta flying, then a Delta pilot should be at the controls. With the DC-9's going away, and that flying going out to contractors, Delta pilots could see the same furlough scenario unfold that happened in the first decade of this century all over again.

I agree. We've already found that we have almost no control over DL flying not done by DL pilots. Time to put that genie back in the bottle. I hope the guys don't buy any company argument that says the
-9s will be sticking around. Since I've been here DL has retired 727s, 737-200s/300s, L1011s, MD-11s, and 767-200s, all in very short order.

What I am curious about is how these contract negotiations are being done without any polling or membership feedback. To resolve the NWA contract I assume their compensation would come up to at least Delta levels, but the Delta pilots do not have NWA's pensions (which is why they have these super concessionary rates).

Then there is the bilateral flow through.

Then there is contradictory scope language.

Then there is the issue of Delta's new hires on aircraft that a 13 year NWA pilot can't hold.

Seems like a lot to negotiate, especially if being done quickly. If management just rolls over the airline will likely have costs far above its' competition. If the union just rolls over the hegemony will fall apart pretty quick.

The Delta MEC sure appears to be on the right track, but the work to do a deal this big, this quick, must be immense.

I don't know how they're going to do it. We are benefiting seniority wise from 2500 guys going early but at the very heavy price of our retirement. The best case I see for us is career stagnation and the worst, I don't want to think about. The chance to make some of that back with an upgrade to capt will be pushed further down the road for many.

I hope we're not sold down the river for some the promise of a small chunk of equity in the new company. It would be nice to hear they've called the whole thing off. The people driving this definitely don't have our best interest in mind.

 

[Sedona16]

I don't know how they're going to do it. We are benefiting seniority wise from 2500 guys going early but at the very heavy price of our retirement. The best case I see for us is career stagnation and the worst, I don't want to think about. The chance to make some of that back with an upgrade to capt will be pushed further down the road for many.

I hope we're not sold down the river for some the promise of a small chunk of equity in the new company. It would be nice to hear they've called the whole thing off. The people driving this definitely don't have our best interest in mind.

A best case would be a lot of quick retirements at NWA prompted by losses if they stay past 60. Also parking the DC9 fleet and replacing with even more EMB, A318/9 and 737. Lastly, pay increases/work rule improvements on both sides and equity. Not saying its going to happen but this would be a best case. Worst case, tons of furloughs or being forced from decent equipment/base to MSP on a DC9 where you sit for years in the right seat. That would not be pretty.

 

[Draginass]

NW and DAL pilots should be VERY VERY careful about anything the dictators in management come up with. You can bet they're going to try and give the pilots the "bum's rush" to get a deal done super quick. The manta will be "just sign it and we'll work out any problems later."

DAL and NW pilots have been been bent over the table by these executive pirates. I hope they've had enough of being humiliated and are going to stand their ground.

 

[FDJ2]

Seems like a lot to negotiate, especially if being done quickly. If management just rolls over the airline will likely have costs far above its' competition. If the union just rolls over the hegemony will fall apart pretty quick.

It's high stakes fo everyone involved, management, labor and investors. In order for this to work all the stars need to align. In any negotiation there is a sweet spot that is acceptable to all parties. Typically it is arrived at through long and exhaustive negotiations where each side postures to get just a little more leverage a little more from the other other guy. This time, in order for everyone involved to maximize their return on this potential deal, there is no time for all the posturing. The sweet spot needs to be arrived at quickly.

The Delta MEC sure appears to be on the right track, but the work to do a deal this big, this quick, must be immense.

It's a tall order for all involved. It's certainly not a done deal.

 

[FDJ2]

The people driving this definitely don't have our best interest in mind.

A truer statement could not be made. However, they do need us.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

A truer statement could not be made. However, they do need us.

You would ALMOST think these people would actually understand this...

 

[Captain Bubba]

Let's face it. We're simply assets, to be brokered, traded, bought, sold, accumulated, divested. They'll (mgt) do whatever is in the best interest of them pocketing the most cash and then retiring to the Carribean or elsewhere.

 

[Captain Bubba]

-----

 

[Bill Mostellar]

You are basically saying Delta pilots would put spite against Comair pilots above what would be best for their careers.

The Spite which was placed on furloughed Delta Pilots has not been forgotten, even by those not affected by it.

You are following a logical fallacy.

William

Edited - Because I can't type coherently. There are still problems with my speling.