Delta-Northwest Deal at Risk

[Superpilot92]

I read that, for the -30s that are leaving this year. That is leaving you with 68 DC9s that have no replacement yet, and 742s that will go away too. All of our older planes are pretty much gone, and we have hired now thanks to INTL growth only. You are hiring for INTL growth now too, but have planes waiting to be parked thanks to $100 a barrel oil. I hope you are right.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

As of right now those planes are supposedly being parked because of their cycles and not fuel. Also NWA does have aircraft orders and thats 18 787's which they will exercise the options on the other 50 making 68 of the most efficient aircraft that have ever been made. Sure some of the 200s will get parked and maybe the 400s will get converted to freighters who knows. This is the airline business you know better than to think long term, right?

 

[General Lee]

Don't confuse them with FACTS.

So how many CR9s will Mesaba get?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

As of right now those planes are supposedly being parked because of their cycles and not fuel. Also NWA does have aircraft orders and thats 18 787's which they will exercise the options on the other 50 making 68 of the most efficient aircraft that have ever been made. Sure some of the 200s will get parked and maybe the 400s will get converted to freighters who knows. This is the airline business you know better than to think long term, right?

Good answer. This is a fluid business, and it would be important to get some things in writing, if we can...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SplitBar]

So how many CR9s will Mesaba get?

Bye Bye--General Lee

36 900's
17 200's

 

[Schwanker]

I thought Mesaba's new CR9s are replacing their old Avros that are gone now? The E175s seem to be replacing the DC9s---they are now going to Montana and as far west as YVR. (an ex A320 route)

Bye Bye--General Lee

Right now Mesaba should get 36 76-seat CR9s. Compass should get 36 76 seat E-175s. Our narrow body floor will be set upon the 36th 76-seater which includes both AC type. That should be set this month (or possibly March). That also means they can't park DC-9's without a replacement. If they stop at 72 76-seaters, they may be able to park 18 DC-9s and be in compliance. I'm not sure. The 30 or so are being parked will be after the NB floor is set. The NB floor will be the current floor on the 36th delivery minus 10. They have 6 months to get into compliance or they are in violation of the scope provisions in the contract. As you can see, they can't get rid of the DC-9s without a replacement or scrapping the new 76-seaters (which ain't going to happen).

 

[Superpilot92]

Right now Mesaba should get 36 76-seat CR9s. Compass should get 36 76 seat E-175s. Our narrow body floor will be set upon the 36th 76-seater which includes both AC type. That should be set this month (or possibly March). That also means they can't park DC-9's without a replacement. If they stop at 72 76-seaters, they may be able to park 18 DC-9s and be in compliance. I'm not sure. The 30 or so are being parked will be after the NB floor is set. The NB floor will be the current floor on the 36th delivery minus 10. They have 6 months to get into compliance or they are in violation of the scope provisions in the contract. As you can see, they can't get rid of the DC-9s without a replacement or scrapping the new 76-seaters (which ain't going to happen).

Now, now, now, you know factual information isnt allowed on FI :nuts:

 

[SplitBar]

Now, now, now, you know factual information isnt allowed on FI :nuts:

HAHA.....but we know the mighty General will have an explination and a spin play for those facts . :beer:

 

[General Lee]

Right now Mesaba should get 36 76-seat CR9s. Compass should get 36 76 seat E-175s. Our narrow body floor will be set upon the 36th 76-seater which includes both AC type. That should be set this month (or possibly March). That also means they can't park DC-9's without a replacement. If they stop at 72 76-seaters, they may be able to park 18 DC-9s and be in compliance. I'm not sure. The 30 or so are being parked will be after the NB floor is set. The NB floor will be the current floor on the 36th delivery minus 10. They have 6 months to get into compliance or they are in violation of the scope provisions in the contract. As you can see, they can't get rid of the DC-9s without a replacement or scrapping the new 76-seaters (which ain't going to happen).

Thanks for the facts! Let's hope they stick to them, and our MECs even tighten scope somehow....?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IronCityBlue]

Right now Mesaba should get 36 76-seat CR9s. Compass should get 36 76 seat E-175s. Our narrow body floor will be set upon the 36th 76-seater which includes both AC type. That should be set this month (or possibly March). That also means they can't park DC-9's without a replacement. If they stop at 72 76-seaters, they may be able to park 18 DC-9s and be in compliance. I'm not sure. The 30 or so are being parked will be after the NB floor is set. The NB floor will be the current floor on the 36th delivery minus 10. They have 6 months to get into compliance or they are in violation of the scope provisions in the contract. As you can see, they can't get rid of the DC-9s without a replacement or scrapping the new 76-seaters (which ain't going to happen).

All of that merely means the senior part of the list will sell everything you just mentioned for a one time bargaining credit. Until the scope trend is reversed, which thank goodness AA is at least talking about, "holding the line" merely means "we haven't give away any more today, yet, at this time, for now."

 

[jetflier]

We Have a WINNER. LandGreen has broken the code. With Africa, Europe, Latin America all being sewed up....Delta does not need NWA's Narita ops. It is being overflown now with todays new aircraft.

NWA brings nothing to the table other than that. That and a bunch of future Coors cans. But look what they stand to gain and what their "cowboys" are demanding. Let it die.

Ed

"Delta does not need NWA's Narita ops. It is being overflown now with todays new aircraft."

Overflown is just that, bringing pax from the USA to other asian destinations. NWA picks up local Japanese traffic and brings them to other destinations is Asia. NWA's been doing that since the end of WW2 when NWA created Japan airlines and trained their pilots.

Any airline can fly to where the widget goes, but only NWA can do what we do....there is a price for that benefit,..."ya gotta pay to play"....

 

[jetflier]

Have you ever seen a 767-400? I guess not. It is a lot larger than a 767-300ER, and probably carries more pax than your A330s. We have 21 of them, and they certainly pay more than your A330s or future 787s. CAL also flies them.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

The 767 is outdated, I think it came out in 1974 when fuel was $.50/gallon. Boeing doesn't even make them any more. They will be going to beer cans as soon as they can be replaced by a more efficient bird.

What is DAL going to replace them with? Are there any orders for new widebody replacements.

All I see at DAL is a handful of new fuel efficient 777's.

My point is NWA 's widebody fleet is newer and more fuel efficient than DAL's. The 767's are fuel thirsty old birds and will have to be replaced. Is DAL replacing them with smaller aircraft ? If not then what can we expect in future fleet plans.

NWA already has a widebody fleet plan, what is Delta's?

 

[FO 4 Life]

General,

The 767 is outdated, I think it came out in 1974 when fuel was $.50/gallon. Boeing doesn't even make them any more. They will be going to beer cans as soon as they can be replaced by a more efficient bird.

Boeing still makes the 767 and trust me, the old ones will not become beer cans. You just won't see them in the daytime.

 

[michael707767]

The 767 is outdated, I think it came out in 1974 when fuel was $.50/gallon. Boeing doesn't even make them any more. They will be going to beer cans as soon as they can be replaced by a more efficient bird.

actually you are wrong. The 787 is more fuel efficient, yes. But the cost of ownership is so high, it is still cheaper to fly the 767 until it's normal retirement time.

 

[filejw]

actually you are wrong. The 787 is more fuel efficient, yes. But the cost of ownership is so high, it is still cheaper to fly the 767 until it's normal retirement time.

Yup, just like a DC -9 just ask Anderson he was the decision maker on that.

 

[ExAF]

OK...You win

This is an easy one....1 word; 3 letters.........P A Y

OK...then you agree with me. The 319 pays the same as the 320. It pays more than the 9 so it shouldn't be grouped with the 9. You actually made my point for me...Thanks!

 

[Diesel-9]

Shack!!! Your 6 is clear ---...---

 

[Diesel-9]

Yup, just like a DC -9 just ask Anderson he was the decision maker on that. Heard him say that many times. Wouldn't doubt he pushes for the GPS mod right away.

 

[General Lee]

General,

The 767 is outdated, I think it came out in 1974 when fuel was $.50/gallon. Boeing doesn't even make them any more. They will be going to beer cans as soon as they can be replaced by a more efficient bird.

What is DAL going to replace them with? Are there any orders for new widebody replacements.

All I see at DAL is a handful of new fuel efficient 777's.

My point is NWA 's widebody fleet is newer and more fuel efficient than DAL's. The 767's are fuel thirsty old birds and will have to be replaced. Is DAL replacing them with smaller aircraft ? If not then what can we expect in future fleet plans.

NWA already has a widebody fleet plan, what is Delta's?

777LRs, with orders and options. The 777LR has the range of a 787, but can carry more pax and cargo, and pays more. We also have 737-800s (NGs) on order to eventually replace MD88s. The MD88s are spring chickens compared to your DC9-50s.

I see you have orders for 18 787s, and options for 50. What other orders do you have coming? You have no narrowbody orders, old cargo planes waiting to be parked with no actual replacements ordered for those also. It seems we both have orders or options for widebody INTL planes, and we--DL-- also have orders for some narrowbody domestic planes (50 73NGs), which you do not have.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CitationLover]

Can we talk about the REAL merger the DOJ is deciding on soon. Us XM Radio subscribers want Howard Stern!

 

[General Lee]

OK...then you agree with me. The 319 pays the same as the 320. It pays more than the 9 so it shouldn't be grouped with the 9. You actually made my point for me...Thanks!

Our MD88 pays more than your A320 and A319, and should be placed above your mini-busses, right? Our MD90s pay more than our MD88s too.


Bye Bye--General Lee