Delta mainline back to Juneau? Looks like it in late May...

[General Lee]

Interesting article. Looks like Big D didn't bother to tell the JNU airport or the FAA that they were going to fly to JNU next spring. With no RNP, I see lots of gate holds in SEA followed by JNU over flights on the way to the ANC alternate. It will work out pretty well as a non-rev express for those who want to go to ANC. The summer tourists will get their vacation screwed up for a day or two (but will be pleased they saved $75 on the cost of their airline ticket). The locals (for the most part) who understand weather and RNP will stick with us. But first, maybe Big D should call someone at the JNU airport and let them know the plan. Maybe an email, a little note... a memo... anything...

http://juneauempire.com/local/2013-12-16/delta-resume-service-juneau#.UrHbF02A272

You mean DL can't use the RNP approach plates it already has? Do you OWN the approach in JNU? DL has done RNP approaches in Quito (ILS was taken out by an Iberia A346), and could probably get the FAA people to look at JNU here in ATL in the sims, and have line check guys give qual rides in there. Just a guess...

Btw, it's great the locals will only stay with you.... Everyone else will look at prices. We'll see.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AK737FO]

General,
I could be wrong, but I doubt that DL has the same RNP approaches into JNU that we use. Our mins are quite good. Then there is the issue of our JAWS - something that took years to develop and get certified by the FAA for our hill wind limitations. I don't know for sure if that "belongs" to us or if it's public use - but if it is ours, than I doubt we will be sharing. Next comes our T-pros, some of them for conventional nav, some of them for our fancy RNP departures. There are days that the winds are such that you can't use RNP down the channel but there is to much tail wind on 26, so we go to our Fox departure. That has to be trained every year in the sim and I doubt our flight ops is going to give your flight ops a copy of the procedure - so have fun building your own in the next few months - or just park a jet on the ramp for a day or two waiting for the winds to die down.
The point is, JNU is not to be taken lightly if you want to provide reliable service. There is a reason you guys stopped going in there decades ago - it was to complex, threw two many curves into your schedule and I imagine there was difficulty keeping crews current. I doubt it will work out any better for big D this time around.

 

[flythere]

This brings to mind another subject, SkyWest? They are in bed with AK flying former QX routes and more unsettling, new AK routes. Now they are going to fly competitive routes against AK for DL out of our own hub?? WTFO?!?!

 

[General Lee]

General,
I could be wrong, but I doubt that DL has the same RNP approaches into JNU that we use. Our mins are quite good. Then there is the issue of our JAWS - something that took years to develop and get certified by the FAA for our hill wind limitations. I don't know for sure if that "belongs" to us or if it's public use - but if it is ours, than I doubt we will be sharing. Next comes our T-pros, some of them for conventional nav, some of them for our fancy RNP departures. There are days that the winds are such that you can't use RNP down the channel but there is to much tail wind on 26, so we go to our Fox departure. That has to be trained every year in the sim and I doubt our flight ops is going to give your flight ops a copy of the procedure - so have fun building your own in the next few months - or just park a jet on the ramp for a day or two waiting for the winds to die down.
The point is, JNU is not to be taken lightly if you want to provide reliable service. There is a reason you guys stopped going in there decades ago - it was to complex, threw two many curves into your schedule and I imagine there was difficulty keeping crews current. I doubt it will work out any better for big D this time around.

Thanks for your concern. I would think DL will spend big bucks to make sure the service is reliable, and the training department does a lot of flights in the 737 to "interesting" places, like Quito, Bogota, and Tegucigalpa. Luckily the service will be during the late Spring and into Summer, where the weather will probably be it's best. I'm sure the Big D will make sure it is safe. Thanks!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

This brings to mind another subject, SkyWest? They are in bed with AK flying former QX routes and more unsettling, new AK routes. Now they are going to fly competitive routes against AK for DL out of our own hub?? WTFO?!?!

Sounds a lot like an airline who will fly feed for ANYONE, regardless of presupposed "loyalty." Oh wait, are we talking about YOU guys or SKW? Hey, it's just business, right? Thanks for bringing that up. Classic!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

JAWS is no longer an in house program. We developed it, but just turned it over to the FAA in the last year or so. The RNP approaches however are still in house.

 

[flythere]

Sounds a lot like an airline who will fly feed for ANYONE, regardless of presupposed "loyalty." Oh wait, are we talking about YOU guys or SKW? Hey, it's just business, right? Thanks for bringing that up. Classic!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Don't blame me, some of us pushed for scope! And you are correct, nothing personal, just bit-ness!!!!

 

[Old School 737]

I'm still wondering who is gonna handle Delta up there ? The floatplane operators ? Wings? Parking ? Deice .. ? Ticket counter space .. I think there is a bench / counter over by Wings ? Near the plaque for the alternates .. Down by the ladies room .. I'm not kidding about the location

 

[General Lee]

I'm still wondering who is gonna handle Delta up there ? The floatplane operators ? Wings? Parking ? Deice .. ? Ticket counter space .. I think there is a bench / counter over by Wings ? Near the plaque for the alternates .. Down by the ladies room .. I'm not kidding about the location

I think DL MIGHT find some TDY types who may want to do it? I don't think it would be tough to find people who might volunteer? Just a guess...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Don't blame me, some of us pushed for scope! And you are correct, nothing personal, just bit-ness!!!!

I don't blame you, I thank you. I would rather have DL doing more West Coast and Alaska flying than giving it to you guys. Internal growth is fantastic. I hear they MAY slow the parking of some older 757s partly because of this. That's good too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Interesting article. Looks like Big D didn't bother to tell the JNU airport or the FAA that they were going to fly to JNU next spring. With no RNP, I see lots of gate holds in SEA followed by JNU over flights on the way to the ANC alternate. It will work out pretty well as a non-rev express for those who want to go to ANC. The summer tourists will get their vacation screwed up for a day or two (but will be pleased they saved $75 on the cost of their airline ticket). The locals (for the most part) who understand weather and RNP will stick with us. But first, maybe Big D should call someone at the JNU airport and let them know the plan. Maybe an email, a little note... a memo... anything...

http://juneauempire.com/local/2013-12-16/delta-resume-service-juneau#.UrHbF02A272

Are you sure about the locals in JNU? You should read the comments at the end of the article. Looks like they are looking for a change...



http://www.ktoo.org/2013/12/16/delta-challenges-alaska-airlines-on-seattle-juneau-route/



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Chief Pilot]

I'm really glad I quit coming on here regularly. Obviously I haven't missed much. I just can't figure out why anyone engages General Lee in any kind of discussion. He or she has got to be the most narcissistic and pathetic person on FI. Nearly every thread has something that this loser feels obligated to chime in on. If this person were actually a Delta pilot (which I am pretty doubtful he actually is) he is a truly sad individual. Obviously he has no wife or kids, or maybe he does. They just want nothing to do with him. How else does he realistically have time to post so much vitriol on nearly every subject on Flightinfo? More than likely this person is a 40 year old wannabe that still lives with his mom. He doesn't actually post anything that can't be found by scouring the internet for news articles and posts by actual aviation professionals on other web boards. Posting on here gets his little cannoli all hard because he is delusional enough to mistake people responding to his posts as some sort of actual human contact, of which he clearly gets none of. It's too bad that FI has become a sounding board for losers like this. The colossal amount of fecal matter that someone has to wade through, just to get a nugget of good info on here, is truly amazing.

As for Delta going to Juneau--so what? They'll figure out that it's no picnic when the weather isn't perfect, which can be any time of year. One of the worst weather days I've experienced in Juneau was this past Summer. Good luck to them.

 

[General Lee]

I'm really glad I quit coming on here regularly. Obviously I haven't missed much. I just can't figure out why anyone engages General Lee in any kind of discussion. He or she has got to be the most narcissistic and pathetic person on FI. Nearly every thread has something that this loser feels obligated to chime in on. If this person were actually a Delta pilot (which I am pretty doubtful he actually is) he is a truly sad individual. Obviously he has no wife or kids, or maybe he does. They just want nothing to do with him. How else does he realistically have time to post so much vitriol on nearly every subject on Flightinfo? More than likely this person is a 40 year old wannabe that still lives with his mom. He doesn't actually post anything that can't be found by scouring the internet for news articles and posts by actual aviation professionals on other web boards. Posting on here gets his little cannoli all hard because he is delusional enough to mistake people responding to his posts as some sort of actual human contact, of which he clearly gets none of. It's too bad that FI has become a sounding board for losers like this. The colossal amount of fecal matter that someone has to wade through, just to get a nugget of good info on here, is truly amazing.

As for Delta going to Juneau--so what? They'll figure out that it's no picnic when the weather isn't perfect, which can be any time of year. One of the worst weather days I've experienced in Juneau was this past Summer. Good luck to them.

Oooooohhhh-Kay...... Wow. Someone doesn't want me to enjoy something. Some people just don't want others to be happy or enjoy anything, maybe because they themselves are miserable. I enjoy this site, and give opinions. If you don't agree, then state why. If you want to ignore me, then use that option. People do get upset when they realize that I actually bring up accurate points, to which they cannot refute. I'm sorry if I upset them, I just like the debate and banter, and don't take it too seriously. Have a great day, and I bet DL is gearing up for JNU right now, and should be ready by next May.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Old School 737]

I think DL MIGHT find some TDY types who may want to do it? I don't think it would be tough to find people who might volunteer? Just a guess...


Bye Bye---General Lee

TDY.. For 4 / 5 months of svs. 1 flight a day ? . That's seems kinda pricy .. But hell big D has billions !! ..

 

[General Lee]

TDY.. For 4 / 5 months of svs. 1 flight a day ? . That's seems kinda pricy .. But hell big D has billions !! ..

No, I've seen station managers and Mechanics do this. I guess they could hire some locals to load some bags. Ever been to Hayden (Steamboat Springs, CO) or Vail? Those airports hire temps for their busy seasons, primarily Winter for Ski Resorts. Same could be done for JNU in the Summer. They have until May to figure it out, and I bet it will be A-OK.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[dalad]

TDY.. For 4 / 5 months of svs. 1 flight a day ? . That's seems kinda pricy .. But hell big D has billions !! ..

We have 2 TDY mechanics that swap out in DKR. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. There is a waiting list.

 

[dalad]

Interesting article. Looks like Big D didn't bother to tell the JNU airport or the FAA that they were going to fly to JNU next spring. With no RNP, I see lots of gate holds in SEA followed by JNU over flights on the way to the ANC alternate. It will work out pretty well as a non-rev express for those who want to go to ANC. The summer tourists will get their vacation screwed up for a day or two (but will be pleased they saved $75 on the cost of their airline ticket). The locals (for the most part) who understand weather and RNP will stick with us. But first, maybe Big D should call someone at the JNU airport and let them know the plan. Maybe an email, a little note... a memo... anything...

http://juneauempire.com/local/2013-12-16/delta-resume-service-juneau#.UrHbF02A272

DAL has developed RNP approaches to a number of airports. I have flown them into GEO and Monrovia, Liberia. How did DAL fly into JUN in the late 80's and early to mid 90's without RNP. In a 727 at that.

 

[Remington]

Might wanna get Wisconsin figured out, beside you venture to Alaska.

 

[AK737FO]

DAL has developed RNP approaches to a number of airports. I have flown them into GEO and Monrovia, Liberia. How did DAL fly into JUN in the late 80's and early to mid 90's without RNP. In a 727 at that.

The answer is - not well! The 727 and the 737-200 days were old school LDA approaches. Basically to VFR mins. Back then, reliable service in and out of JNU was not good. Those days are gone and the good people of JNU have come to understand what we can do today with the magic of RNP.

I'm sure Delta can develop RNP approaches. I'm sure they can train crews. I'm sure they can spend a lot of money on the problem. I'm not so sure they can get all the pieces in place for reliable service by next spring. And - I'm not so sure they can make any money at it when it's all said and done.

Club 49 will be a big player. Folks will soon realize that they "saved" $75 on their Delta ticket, but then spent $400 on their large checked bags!

It will be a little funny to see the big D ticket counter down at the end of the bush and float plane counters. Go in the front door, take a right, go past the stuffed Grizzly, then past the gift shop, then past the bathrooms, past the float plane / bush plane counters - all the way down at the end. Welcome to Alaska!

 

[General Lee]

The answer is - not well! The 727 and the 737-200 days were old school LDA approaches. Basically to VFR mins. Back then, reliable service in and out of JNU was not good. Those days are gone and the good people of JNU have come to understand what we can do today with the magic of RNP.

I'm sure Delta can develop RNP approaches. I'm sure they can train crews. I'm sure they can spend a lot of money on the problem. I'm not so sure they can get all the pieces in place for reliable service by next spring. And - I'm not so sure they can make any money at it when it's all said and done.

Club 49 will be a big player. Folks will soon realize that they "saved" $75 on their Delta ticket, but then spent $400 on their large checked bags!

It will be a little funny to see the big D ticket counter down at the end of the bush and float plane counters. Go in the front door, take a right, go past the stuffed Grizzly, then past the gift shop, then past the bathrooms, past the float plane / bush plane counters - all the way down at the end. Welcome to Alaska!

Funny to read some of the comments from that article I posted, looks like some people favor an extra player. As far as getting a new ticket counter, the experience will be like your small one just created at SLC. And, I'm sure operations will be exactly the same as the 727 days, right? Nothing has changed since then..... Riiiight. Welcome to Alaska you say? Well, 3 more mainline from SEA to ANC, (besides nonstops to MSP, SLC, DTW, LAX, and ATL) 1 new one from SEA to FAI (besides nonstops from MSP and SLC), and now JNU. Sounds like Alaska is fairly well known to DL. Maybe that will increase too, you never know....


Bye Bye----General Lee