Delta 717's

[texman]

Right now we don't compete with Emirates (which is fortunate for us.) This is due to geography. The only US markets they tap are US-eastern Africa and US-Indian sub-continent. They are a much bigger threat to the European legacies.

If cabotage rules change and they can start flying US-Europe we are in big trouble. You can't compete with their cost structure or level of service. Of course, extreme cabotage changes would allow Ryanair to fly within the US, at which point this career will officially by flushed.

^^^^^^^^^This hear is the bigger issue! It could happen.

 

[General Lee]

^^^^^^^^^This hear is the bigger issue! It could happen.

Rigt now, not really. We do have "open skies" with certain countries, like Australia, but Emirates and Qantas just did a partnership that will probably preserve their most highly coveted rotes, and for Qantas that is Australia to LAX. Other than that, most of the big airports are slot controlled or have very little room to grow. Europe to the US? Nah, that economy isn't doing great. Unlikely in the near future. It still bears watching, and this upcoming election could help keep cabotage out longer. That is why current consolidation is important. The 3 large legacies need to become more profitable to help compete against the Emirates and Singapores of the world. More profits mean legacies can buy newer and bigger planes, improve the product, etc. I think that is the current thinking.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Rigt now, not really. We do have "open skies" with certain countries, like Australia, but Emirates and Qantas just did a partnership that will probably preserve their most highly coveted rotes, and for Qantas that is Australia to LAX. Other than that, most of the big airports are slot controlled or have very little room to grow. Europe to the US? Nah, that economy isn't doing great. Unlikely in the near future. It still bears watching, and this upcoming election could help keep cabotage out longer. That is why current consolidation is important. The 3 large legacies need to become more profitable to help compete against the Emirates and Singapores of the world. More profits mean legacies can buy newer and bigger planes, improve the product, etc. I think that is the current thinking.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Agree 100% General. All BS aside, I'd much rather see you guys fly it than some other foreign low cost carrier. Definitely could be a problem down the road.

 

[Whataburger]

Whatajoke,

.

1. You guys have to contribute 9% before you get a match.

2. That means you take home 9% less to get that match. So, add the 13% and you really lose.

3. The only way to compare accurately is posted payrates...

4. because not everyone flies the max.




Bye Bye---General Lee

1. Simply not true.

2. Simply not true.

3. Simply not true.

4. True.

You claim to have a friend at SWA. Find some truths and report back to me when you get over your jet lag.

 

[General Lee]

1. Simply not true.

2. Simply not true.

3. Simply not true.

4. True.

You claim to have a friend at SWA. Find some truths and report back to me when you get over your jet lag.

So, correct me Whatajoke. Do you have a DC fund that is independent of your own contribution? (nope). How about INTL override? Wait, your AT brethren do the INTL flights. I'd call my SWA buddy and ask him, but he is too exhausted to answer the phone after his 18 leg 4 day am trip.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[737tanker]

How do you know there will be 10 training events for every retirement? Do you really think they'll have 8,000 training events per year 10 years from now when 800 guys hit 65?

Red is wrong when he mentions 10 training events, it will be more like 20 per retirement. That is because for every Capt that moves up when a senior Capt retires there will also be an F/O that moves up to replace the senior F/O that became a junior Capt. The only thing that may reduce the number of training events, unless Delta doesn't replace the retired pilot, is if different aircraft pay the same, like UPS, then that may reduce the number of moves. But if you have guys looking for pay increases, or improved QOL, then you could have 20 training events for every retirement.

 

[General Lee]

Red is wrong when he mentions 10 training events, it will be more like 20 per retirement. That is because for every Capt that moves up when a senior Capt retires there will also be an F/O that moves up to replace the senior F/O that became a junior Capt. The only thing that may reduce the number of training events, unless Delta doesn't replace the retired pilot, is if different aircraft pay the same, like UPS, then that may reduce the number of moves. But if you have guys looking for pay increases, or improved QOL, then you could have 20 training events for every retirement.

Some things were done to mitigate some of the costs, like 2 year seat holds for Advanced Entitlements (bidding for something and being awarded it) and even a 1 year seat hold for newhires, which is new. In the 2007 hiring cycle some newhires were awarded 767 FO as their initial award because there were some slots left over that weren't bid by current pilots, so Delta actually got a bargain with newhires and their first year pay flying widebodies. But, that doesn't happen often, but it could if there is a bunch of upward movement. Also, training has been made more efficient and cost effective by having training CDs at home. It's not 727 FE days anymore with 4 weeks of ground school and then sims. The costs aren't as much as they used to be. But, when you make more than $1 billion per year MORE than LCCs like SWA in ancillary revenue each year, you can probably afford it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[texman]

Rigt now, not really. We do have "open skies" with certain countries, like Australia, but Emirates and Qantas just did a partnership that will probably preserve their most highly coveted rotes, and for Qantas that is Australia to LAX. Other than that, most of the big airports are slot controlled or have very little room to grow. Europe to the US? Nah, that economy isn't doing great. Unlikely in the near future. It still bears watching, and this upcoming election could help keep cabotage out longer. That is why current consolidation is important. The 3 large legacies need to become more profitable to help compete against the Emirates and Singapores of the world. More profits mean legacies can buy newer and bigger planes, improve the product, etc. I think that is the current thinking.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I will say Genny all us carriers should fight. I totally support you guys if Emirates tries to back door any thing that would hurt US JOBS.

 

[Golden Falcon]

I will say Genny all us carriers should fight. I totally support you guys if Emirates tries to back door any thing that would hurt US JOBS.

I agree, horrible companies like Emirates buy Boeings(new ones, not ValuJet discards)and employ many Americans directly as crew, and indirectly through purchasing our products....

 

[GogglesPisano]

I agree, horrible companies like Emirates buy Boeings(new ones, not ValuJet discards)and employ many Americans directly as crew, and indirectly through purchasing our products....

Do they compete on a level playing field against US carriers?

Do they pay fair wages to their pilots and FA's (with or without housing subsidies?)

Do they allow collective bargaining? Do they have "system boards" for dealing with discipline?

If you include housing subsidies/various other perks -- are said subsidies completely funded by Emirates?

How much help does Emirates get from the UAE?

I'm fairly sure most guys who live in Dubai would prefer living in the US if they could wind the clock back to the way this profession was pre-deregulation.

 

[jonjuan]

I agree, horrible companies like Emirates buy Boeings(new ones, not ValuJet discards)and employ many Americans directly as crew, and indirectly through purchasing our products....

Lol- there's plenty of jobs for Americans in China as well making nike's and iPhones.