Delta 717 problems?

[Jeff Helgeson]

It is still a DC-9, Douglas Cable airplane #9, lift the floor and see the DNA of the Douglas Cable airplane #3. Long live the DC-9

Little yellow button you are all mine, you are just another DC9!

 

[redflyer65]

Impressive.....can I get to Bloomington, Flint or Singapore on your airline?

Flint, yes.

Bloomington would be outsourced RJ service.

Singapore? We'll see. International is on it's way.

 

[General Lee]

Flint, yes.

Bloomington would be outsourced RJ service.

Singapore? We'll see. International is on it's way.

Sounds like GK thinks so, via pay cuts, RJs, and code shares. Can you hold the line is the question...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Unlike you and your sellout mentality, we've held the line for 40 years.

Remember your last TA?

You were kind of like John Kerry..

I was against the TA before I was for it. Your first instinct was right.

 

[waveflyer]

You never understood then what was happening. 88 717s come in to replace 70/76 seaters that were going to then replace outgoing 50 seaters. Do you see the domino effect? 50 seaters couldn't make money in high oil, but maybe a 70 or a 76 seater could, and push them down to those 50 seater routes that could never sustain a 717. Then, allow 717s to take back a large chunk of routes that went to DCI after 9-11. It actually helps everyone, including mainline pilots. More seats to smaller cities to commute on, and more profits via bag fees to help with profit sharing. It benefitted everyone, except 50 seater pilots.


Bye Bye---General Lee

We all understand better than you sellout

 

[tankerhead]

Sounds like GK thinks so, via pay cuts, RJs, and code shares. Can you hold the line is the question...


Bye Bye---General Lee

Holy crap, you are such an idiot.

 

[General Lee]

We all understand better than you sellout

Says the guy who bought his job....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Holy crap, you are such an idiot.

Ummm, no. You got your work cut out for you. Apparently your boss already is comparing your 737 pay to other 737 operators, while currently your 737s pay as much as some 747 operators, even though that may not be the case soon thanks to legacy rates going up due to higher profits. This may get interesting, good luck, idiot.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

You're almost hopeful that we'll take a paycut general-

Do you think us doing that would be good for you and DALPA?

 

[General Lee]

You're almost hopeful that we'll take a paycut general-

Do you think us doing that would be good for you and DALPA?

Heck no, but it's just interesting that the management the stuck it's nose into a merger SLI, now seemingly wants to maybe alienate the other 2/3's of the pilot group. What happened to the "family" attitude?

And really, when you finally get it all straightened out, get management to drop the pay for your type scheme. That plus stagnation may very well point a lot of potential Corndogs to the other LCCs, like Spirit, JB, or Allegiant.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

From a guy who complains about a type rating, and yet has allowed the outsourcing of literally tens of thousands of jobs.

Not even in the same ballpark.

Wave, he's just been pissed for years when SW continued to hire right thru 9/11 and then paid more than his widebody. That's got to hurt the Village Idiot's ego.

 

[General Lee]

From a guy who complains about a type rating, and yet has allowed the outsourcing of literally tens of thousands of jobs.

Not even in the same ballpark.

Wave, he's just been pissed for years when SW continued to hire right thru 9/11 and then paid more than his widebody. That's got to hurt the Village Idiot's ego.

Like you outsourcing your own flying to cheaper 737 pilots? You know? Your B-scale AT pilots, that SOMEHOW your union didn't get pay parity on same type planes..... That is JUST PLAIN NUTS! Btw, the RJ fleet total is shrinking....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Shrinking for now GL-

Dal is just getting you to view large RJs outsourced as normal. Once you've accepted that- the next round of economic hardship will see a flood of big RJ's hit the market as judges crush your RJ contractual protections-

You had such an opportunity but chose to sellout again-

 

[Roomwithaview]

And SWA cut 17 cities from the AT map. I hear guys really like it, but the FMS takes a little while getting used to. If they give you a new Sid or Star it can be a cluster trying to do it. (?). I'm sure things will get smoother as more appear. Delta will have +30 airplanes this year compared to last.

Finally! The reason for the B717 sell off revealed. The seagulls in the head sheds brain probably acted like they just swallowed an Alka Seltzer when they heard that. Most of them are FMS cripples.

General-Did you guys ever negotiate back the jump seat? One of your dudes showed up the other day and was getting turned down by one of our old school ops agents. I hooked him up. He was most appreciative. Says he doesn't jumpseat much and wasn't sure.

 

[redflyer65]

Like you outsourcing your own flying to cheaper 737 pilots? You know? Your B-scale AT pilots, that SOMEHOW your union didn't get pay parity on same type planes..... That is JUST PLAIN NUTS! Btw, the RJ fleet total is shrinking....


Bye Bye---General Lee

TENS of THOUSANDS of jobs outsourced and you still think you can open your mouth with any authority on anything we do? Hilarious.

Your basically losing around 12-15% of those regional airframes. Guess what, you STILL have MORE Delta Connection airframes than Southwest has. Unbelievable.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

TENS of THOUSANDS of jobs outsourced and you still think you can open your mouth with any authority on anything we do? Hilarious.

Your basically losing around 12-15% of those regional airframes. Guess what, you STILL have MORE Delta Connection airframes than Southwest has. Unbelievable.

Slow your roll Red...

My point earlier is that until you serve those thin routes that only have RJ service, you are in no position to make an argument. I could run a 737 profitably to cherry picked cities too.

Granted, we were running 6 RJs a day between major cities, but those days are over or at least being sunsetted and it is being reversed.

Using your scope (never challenged by your management) as your big achievement in advancing the profession is not a real bloodletting event for your pilot group.

 

[redflyer65]

Wasn't meant for you Bill. It was for the Village Idiot that give you guys a bad name. You know, it was a horrible TA for having larger RJ's, then it evaporated when he saw there was more money.

Our management has looked at RJ's, numerous times and didn't like the cost metric. We just got it all in writing. So it was a combination of negotiations and economics.

 

[General Lee]

Wasn't meant for you Bill. It was for the Village Idiot that give you guys a bad name. You know, it was a horrible TA for having larger RJ's, then it evaporated when he saw there was more money.

Our management has looked at RJ's, numerous times and didn't like the cost metric. We just got it all in writing. So it was a combination of negotiations and economics.

Oh, here we go again.... You call me names because you can't debate the issues. The TA gained many things that were good, but AS YOU WILL FIND OUT SOON Red, you won't get everything you want. It was a 3 year contract with a 20% raise, higher DC fund %, higher vacation and training pay, better sick leave, and lower RJ numbers and tighter domestic and INTL scope. Yes, there were a couple hits that weren't great, but nothing that set the pilot group back. Will you say the same coming up here? I hope so Red, fingers crossed!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Wasn't meant for you Bill. It was for the Village Idiot that give you guys a bad name. You know, it was a horrible TA for having larger RJ's, then it evaporated when he saw there was more money.

Our management has looked at RJ's, numerous times and didn't like the cost metric. We just got it all in writing. So it was a combination of negotiations and economics.

Roger that Red...thanks.

My bringing this up and your clarification sorta proves that the company never laid it out on the table for SWAPA to even consider. Better yet, was a TA presented to you or your predecessors including a loosening of scope for the membership to vote on?

Your management (smartly) saw the stupidity in outsourcing, and we (stupidly) had it on the table and took the bait. Blame us...sure, but saying you had your back against the wall over the issue is a stretch.

 

[redflyer65]

They tried the limited codeshare with Volaris and we just tightened the language to just that one company.

Once they dissolved that agreement, any and all codeshare basically stopped. We did spend a tremendous amount of negotiating capital to get it locked down and we aren't going to be so easy to give it up. Prior to that during Herb's years, I don't think he liked the idea but neither was it spelled out in the contract (just from memory).