Delta 717 problems?

[General Lee]

Your comprehension sucks. You made the fingers crossed remark about SWAPA holding the line on the iron clad scope language we spent so much valuable negotiating capital to secure. I'm quite sure your repeated failures on the scope front did not provide you with any of the things you mentioned. And, many Delta pilots gravely disagree with you "We're about back to where we were" assertion. And again I don't at all believe your "I hope you can say the same in a few years" statement because its total and utter BS when viewed through the lens of hating all things Southwest.

I don't hate all things SWA, nope. I just am critical of Corndogs who defend paying for training even though their company doesn't have to do it, and watch with amazement when they become incensed when someone DOESN'T want what they have---to be a Corndog. Some may have yearned for the way your management and pilot group "luv'd" each other, but that just doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Throw in the poor merger decisions with the SLI and the resultant "zero AT 737 Capts remain that way when they cross over" deal, and there are some big negatives for this industry coming out of your corner. I guess zero code shares and tight scope is great, but I see that as a huge target your honchos will be looking at. Will you keep it that way? That really is up to you, but I think it will be quite expensive. I wonder why they haven't added bag fees (like they do at AT) yet? Maybe that can be your defense...



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Your only real argument is 'Pay for training'. And even that's weak. How much is that four year degree that you don't even use? Yea, that's close to the same price of a 5k type rating.

Regarding anything else,

SW doesn't have ONE RJ. Not ONE.
Ironclad Codeshare, as in NONE.
Best Narrowbody payrates, and in some cases better than many Widebody rates.
Some of the best work rules in the industry. ie, A four day that pays 26.5, vs DL 21. Huge difference.

So Jenny, you unfortunately have no argument. So you sound like a complete fool. As usual.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

First things first. GL is a troll and y'all keep falling for it. That being said red, sw started out as a bottom feeder like virgin, jetblue, skybus, reno, valutjet, etc. The difference was outstanding mgmt. and lots of luck. 1. You don't have RJs because your mgmt. was smart enough to realize what money pits they were, and also they don't fit your model at all. The legacies had a very small use for them, but went on a bender and had a 10 year hangover. 2. Ironclad codeshare: That's easy as sw had rarely looked outside the conus. Your time will come. It's impossible to serve the world without them. It's a reality. Yes we codeshare with anyone and everyone it seems, but the flipside is we get feed from them also. It's not a one way street even though imho we seem to always be on the short end of the stick. I'm sure the KLM/AF guys might feel the same about us. 3. You currently (post 2004) have the best pay and workrules. That has not always been the case and you know that.(Historically, your Capt pay was about the equivalent of a legacy WB fo or maybe 757 fo) This being on top is in the big scheme of things a very recent event. I personally hope y'all can get some big raises for two reasons(better than our crappy 4,8,3,3 loose a little profit share and workrules to make it zero sum for the company). One being it will help us continue the restoration of our contract and two, my brother who flies for y'all can keep picking up the bar tab. 4. You do realize we had all those things. Commutable 4 days worth 24+ and at NWA we ever had commutable 5 days worth 28-30. Our trips now are greatly underpaid, but can be fixed with a simple tweak here or there. A true minimum day(IE: 4.25) would solve a lot of problems. Most of my 4 day trips would instantly go to the 24-26 hour range.

Your only real argument is 'Pay for training'. And even that's weak. How much is that four year degree that you don't even use? Yea, that's close to the same price of a 5k type rating.

Regarding anything else,

SW doesn't have ONE RJ. Not ONE.
Ironclad Codeshare, as in NONE.
Best Narrowbody payrates, and in some cases better than many Widebody rates.
Some of the best work rules in the industry. ie, A four day that pays 26.5, vs DL 21. Huge difference.

So Jenny, you unfortunately have no argument. So you sound like a complete fool. As usual.

 

[General Lee]

Cobraair757,

So, I'm a troll because I can successfully debate the issues? Riiiight. I guess people like you don't want direct answers, or to know any faults. A troll is someone only looking to make trouble. That is not my game, but I don't hide my opinions on certain subjects.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

A troll is someone only looking to make trouble. That is not my game,

Bye Bye---General Lee

Perfectly fits you putz because that's what you do on FI! Putz!

 

[General Lee]

Perfectly fits you putz because that's what you do on FI! Putz!

I give opinions on subjects, and yes I probably give a friendly jab now and then. Gotta keep this board interesting. But, I actually add substance, not continual slams. There are subjects I harp on, but that's because I think they are important. US Easties not accepting the NIC, PFT at the Corndog, the way the AT pilots were unfairly treated, etc. It's not wrong to give opinions if you can back them up without slams. It looks like you can't, but that doesn't bother me much because I enjoy the Vietnam banter. It makes me laugh.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[canyonblue]

I give opinions on subjects, and yes I probably give a friendly jab now and then. Gotta keep this board interesting.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Not really, you don't provide much to this board outside of your Middle School banter. You provide no reason to exist, outside of agitating others, just to increase the internet hits this forum takes to drive the advertising revenue stream. If anything, you seriously risk the longevity of this board by turning people off, therefore turning away many forum visitors. It has gotten to the point that I won't even read ANYTHING written by you, and I hate when I click on a SWA thread and see your stupid comments providing no value to the conversation. I know you, and you alone, are starting to lead pilots away from this board. So however you are connected to the owners of this site, I would plead for them to change their tactics. I visit even less, and I know of many who have probably left for good.

 

[General Lee]

Not really, you don't provide much to this board outside of your Middle School banter. You provide no reason to exist, outside of agitating others, just to increase the internet hits this forum takes to drive the advertising revenue stream. If anything, you seriously risk the longevity of this board by turning people off, therefore turning away many forum visitors. It has gotten to the point that I won't even read ANYTHING written by you, and I hate when I click on a SWA thread and see your stupid comments providing no value to the conversation. I know you, and you alone, are starting to lead pilots away from this board. So however you are connected to the owners of this site, I would plead for them to change their tactics. I visit even less, and I know of many who have probably left for good.

You yourself was literally upset that not everyone wanted YOUR job. That's where you started to get defensive. I listed reasons like variety in planes, routes, trips with fewer legs. I gave reasons, and that made a lot of you guys upset. Then this merger stuff and resultant SLI with the AT guys made you guys upset, primarily because I called you out on how bad it was and unfair. I gave reasons, and you got upset. I don't just slam, I give my opinions with well thought out arguments attached. Most of you can't debate that, and then get mad. If you really want to, use IGNORE, but that isn't because I am annoying, rather it's because you know I'm correct. Your choice.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

Another weekend, another 78 posts. Wife must be so proud of you. Think about it.

 

[redflyer65]

You yourself was literally upset that not everyone wanted YOUR job. That's where you started to get defensive. I listed reasons like variety in planes, routes, trips with fewer legs. I gave reasons, and that made a lot of you guys upset. Then this merger stuff and resultant SLI with the AT guys made you guys upset, primarily because I called you out on how bad it was and unfair. I gave reasons, and you got upset. I don't just slam, I give my opinions with well thought out arguments attached. Most of you can't debate that, and then get mad. If you really want to, use IGNORE, but that isn't because I am annoying, rather it's because you know I'm correct. Your choice.


Bye Bye---General Lee

F'ing hilarious General. You just described yourself!

I could careless about doing your type of flying. Is that defensive? I don't think so, but you get spooled up immediately when someone disagrees with you. I don't call what you do debating. I call it slinging poo against the wall in an attempt to see what sticks. Most see through your insistent BS...and leave. It's not debating.

The definition of debating is lost on you when people bring in the facts that don't fit your agenda (for which you will ignore completely). What do you do? Head right for SW type rating, Lubbock, Corndog, etc. It's the same old shtick year in and year out. You bring nothing new.

You don't slam? Again, hilarious.

 

[General Lee]

F'ing hilarious General. You just described yourself!

I could careless about doing your type of flying. Is that defensive? I don't think so, but you get spooled up immediately when someone disagrees with you. I don't call what you do debating. I call it slinging poo against the wall in an attempt to see what sticks. Most see through your insistent BS...and leave. It's not debating.

The definition of debating is lost on you when people bring in the facts that don't fit your agenda (for which you will ignore completely). What do you do? Head right for SW type rating, Lubbock, Corndog, etc. It's the same old shtick year in and year out. You bring nothing new.

You don't slam? Again, hilarious.

No Red, you guys literally melted down when someone DIDN'T want to do what you HAD..... Your high pay and THEN great relationship with management was enviable to many, but not everyone. I plainly stated your productive trips with multiple leg days and quick turns are NOT for everyone, which caused a lot of disbelief from Cornies.

Since that initial disagreement a few years ago that set off this back and forth, your merger SLI has painted a bad picture of your group, and now the Babbitt stuff shows that prior relationship you used to have may not happen in the future with your bosses. That is not disputable. Management should have stayed out of SLIs, or disloyalty follows.

So, take the jabs anyway you want, nicknames aren't malicious. And LBB and MAF type layovers are a difference between the companies, just like Lagos, Nigeria is. Some people avoid it due to seniority, some people love that one due to it being high time and 4 pilots with lie flat crew bunks. But you get highly defensive because you lack variety, you can't get away from 737s and multiple leg days. That's you getting upset, not me. The legacies actually have variety, and that is a fact. Who SHOULD care about that? Prospective newhires or people wanting to know differences. Highly doubtful you will change, unless your UAL app does get looked at.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Another weekend, another 78 posts. Wife must be so proud of you. Think about it.

And yet you still haven't added anything of substance. Think about it. You also want me to stop doing something I enjoy, which is sad. My wife is plenty happy though, she's married to a genius.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PBRstreetgang]

My wife is plenty happy though, she's married to a genius.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Your "wife" is a well abused blow up doll. Sorry not buying any of your dribble.

 

[EngineThunder]

And yet you still haven't added anything of substance. Think about it. You also want me to stop doing something I enjoy, which is sad. My wife is plenty happy though, she's married to a genius.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Your wife is married to stephen hawking?

 

[General Lee]

Your "wife" is a well abused blow up doll. Sorry not buying any of your dribble.

You don't have to, I really don't care if you do. I'm guessing you are a 4 foot 10 inch Napolean wannabe who can't get a date even though you brag about being a Brasilia FO based in SFO. I'm probably correct, again.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Your wife is married to stephen hawking?

You mean to "a" Stephen Hawking, in the adjective sense? Why Yes, yes she is.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

No Red, you guys literally melted down when someone DIDN'T want to do what you HAD..... Your high pay and THEN great relationship with management was enviable to many, but not everyone. I plainly stated your productive trips with multiple leg days and quick turns are NOT for everyone, which caused a lot of disbelief from Cornies. And the same is true about your trips. I couldn't stand to do them. I melt down when you say you wouldn't want to fly our stuff? I could really careless. If you are happy with your gig, then that's great Jenny. Same on this side.

Oh and on a side note...you continue to be flat out WRONG about the kind of flying we do. You've been proven wrong time and time again. I do 3-4 legs a day, sometimes just 2. Short turns, ultra efficient. No sitting around the hub for two hours every time. Am I defensive? No just calling your portrayal of our flying as complete BS. The reality doesn't fit your mantra, so you want to disregard the truth, yet again.


Since that initial disagreement a few years ago that set off this back and forth, your merger SLI has painted a bad picture of your group, and now the Babbitt stuff shows that prior relationship you used to have may not happen in the future with your bosses. That is not disputable. Management should have stayed out of SLIs, or disloyalty follows. I understand that point of view and see where you are coming from. You can direct that at Gary Kelly. It was his decision. Not ALPA's, not even SWAPA's. It's done and over, no matter how much muck racking you try to still accomplish (ie, slinging poo).

So, take the jabs anyway you want, nicknames aren't malicious. And LBB and MAF type layovers are a difference between the companies, just like Lagos, Nigeria is. Some people avoid it due to seniority, some people love that one due to it being high time and 4 pilots with lie flat crew bunks. But you get highly defensive because you lack variety, you can't get away from 737s and multiple leg days. That's you getting upset, not me. The legacies actually have variety, and that is a fact. Who SHOULD care about that? Prospective newhires or people wanting to know differences. Highly doubtful you will change, unless your UAL app does get looked at. I'm pretty sure educated pilots that have 2000+ hours of turbine PC (civilian), or Military time (and squadron buddies) know the difference, so you argument here is just as weak as the rest. And again, I'm not defensive at all about our flying. Works great for me and plenty of others. Would dream of changing it.



Bye Bye---General Lee

My responses in Red.

Again, you bring up absolutely nothing new. Time after time.

 

[General Lee]

My responses in Red.

Again, you bring up absolutely nothing new. Time after time.

Red,

You seem to not understand a basic point. There are MANY different types of trips at DL, not just 12 day INTL trips. They go from one day turns to 12 day trips, domestic trips and INTL trips. Many types of planes to choose from. It's called BETTER variety, and you can't debate that, which is why you get upset. Your trips are built in a productive manner, which can be good and bad. Good so you can get a bunch of hours stuffed into a 2, 3, or 4 day trip. Bad because after about 10 years, more legs per day is bad. The older you get, the fewer legs anyone who is sane wants to fly. Your options in plane type, destination location, and trip length are limited, and prospective interviewees need to know this.

This may be nothing new, but it's a public service announcement that needs to be viewed. I'm glad you enjoy your job, but don't get upset please if I point out correct differences.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[scoreboardII]

Red,

You seem to not understand a basic point. There are MANY different types of trips at DL, not just 12 day INTL trips. They go from one day turns to 12 day trips, domestic trips and INTL trips. Many types of planes to choose from. It's called BETTER variety, and you can't debate that, which is why you get upset. Your trips are built in a productive manner, which can be good and bad. Good so you can get a bunch of hours stuffed into a 2, 3, or 4 day trip. Bad because after about 10 years, more legs per day is bad. The older you get, the fewer legs anyone who is sane wants to fly. Your options in plane type, destination location, and trip length are limited, and prospective interviewees need to know this.

This may be nothing new, but it's a public service announcement that needs to be viewed. I'm glad you enjoy your job, but don't get upset please if I point out correct differences.



Bye Bye---General Lee

You cannot even begin to coherently argue that someone, as they get older, flies better with only one leg a day. Or, that someone is sane for wanting less. Flying is what we do. Watching a computer across the pond for twenty years is not flying, that is insanity defined.

 

[General Lee]

You cannot even begin to coherently argue that someone, as they get older, flies better with only one leg a day. Or, that someone is sane for wanting less. Flying is what we do. Watching a computer across the pond for twenty years is not flying, that is insanity defined.

Huh? Flies BETTER??? Never said that. When you get older you want to fly LESS. Fewer legs. That is NOT in your airline's nature. Productive trips means lots of legs for you guys, and that sux as you get older. Four or five leg days just don't sound as "fun" the older one becomes, unless you are insane.

And "watching" a computer across a pond includes a nice rest break, a meal, and atleast a 24 hour layover at rates more than your plane per hour on the Widebody.


Bye Bye---General Lee