Delay of 9E/XJ/9L list

[CptMurf]

I wasn't around at that time when the 99 CBA was voted in. Prior union decisions is not something I could control. I sent a resume to Mesaba, but didn't get called. Pinnacle called right away, and let me pick a class date. Go figure. It's not like I was sitting at the top of a mountain of gold with regionals offering jobs left and right. I applied to several, and who ever called me first is the place I went. Pinnacle was it. Same way I'll do majors in the next few years. Darts will be thrown at pretty much every legacy carrier and UPS/Fdx. Whoever calls first, I'll go. I won't be one of those idiots who "holds out" for just one or two places or no where else. Like how some MEM guys want to go only to FDX and no where else. That is one quick way to become a regional lifer, and I refuse that.

Yet you voted for it. By your acceptance of the job, you said the status quo of pay during training and DOH was good enough for you. In essence a vote.

Anyway, to be clear, when I started, I got money from Pinnacle. I commenced training from day 1 of my pilot class date. I filled out all the proper HR and payroll paperwork, and was in the HR/payroll database on the first of my class date. On a monthly basis, I was paid more (ironically), in initial training then first year pay on guarantee!

You've yet to answer my question... Did you get you receive a 1099 or was this money shown as gross pay on your W2? Were FICA and Fed/State taxes withheld? You keep saying "I got money", but the question is, was it compensation, stipend, or Per Diem.

Nah, I don't believe you bring equal value to the merger. I believe, in net total, by next year you will only bring 60 CRJs that require only ~710 pilots. The rest are unfortunately furlough fodder. At least, that's the analysis that I've seen. :blush: Sorry, but Mesaba's disputing twice against our DOH and intentionally trying to screw 9E pilots out of 2 months seniority has made me not care about XJ or their concerns. I wanted unity and a sense of a happy family, but I think we know that is all gone. I better not see any emails from any union member (especially JM) on topics of unity, strength, one voice, one list, or any other garbage they try and shove down our throat while intentionally stabbing us in the back. Twice.

I would say we brought equal or greater value. Between the contract gains you have already received by merging with us, and tripling your ability to fly the largest and most fuel efficient CRJ on the market. Those are huge gains in "career expectation", which should only be based on your compensation if you made a career at the merged carrier.

As for your feelings toward our MEC/SLI members, I can honestly say the same for yours.

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

I better not see any emails from any union member (especially JM) on topics of unity, strength, one voice, one list, or any other garbage they try and shove down our throat while intentionally stabbing us in the back. Twice.

Oh? And what will you do Flyer, if you see such an email? You're a pretty tough guy hiding behind that cyber-curtain! "Ooohhh, beware the gweat and tewwible wizzud of OZ"! Here's an idea - why don't you just shut up for about a week or until the decision comes out and we can start all this anew (with the facts this time, whatever they are).

 

[bri5150]

I better not see any emails from any union member (especially JM) on topics of unity, strength, one voice, one list, or any other garbage they try and shove down our throat while intentionally stabbing us in the back. Twice.

Oh? And what will you do Flyer, if you see such an email? You're a pretty tough guy hiding behind that cyber-curtain! "Ooohhh, beware the gweat and tewwible wizzud of OZ"! Here's an idea - why don't you just shut up for about a week or until the decision comes out and we can start all this anew (with the facts this time, whatever they are).

I hope to god we don't start this after it comes out. :beer:

 

[bri5150]

Oh, and one more piece of negotiating experience... I was a new hire when it happened, but there was something that our union stood fast on with regards to the 15 200's we were suppose to get pre-shamruptcy. I think the company wanted pay cuts to get them or something. Anyone have details on that?

 

[xjhawk]

not details only generalizations..... The company came to our union and said we would have to take some sort of concessions (pay cuts I think) in order for us to get the aircraft. Our union said no and left it hang there-we "got" the aircraft.....well, two of them anyways! lol

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Do you really think Mesaba is disputing something that is in black and white as an LOA in our contract? They may be disputing the dates were calculated wrong, but not disputing the fact 9E is using their class dates.

Any chance we can go back and dispute the NWA/Delta merger that created this whole dang mess????

 

[jynxyjericho]

Sorry, but Mesaba's disputing twice against our DOH and intentionally trying to screw 9E pilots out of 2 months seniority has made me not care about XJ or their concerns. I wanted unity and a sense of a happy family, but I think we know that is all gone. I better not see any emails from any union member (especially JM) on topics of unity, strength, one voice, one list, or any other garbage they try and shove down our throat while intentionally stabbing us in the back. Twice.

Still at it hu?

Is there a dispute between what JH and his boys want to call a DOH and what Mesaba and JM want to call it? Yes. Does it matter? Not really, because Bloch sounds like he's good to go. We do dispute the continued and obvious errors in your own list. I swear every time I hear about your list its like watching an old football bloopers reel. "Yeah apparently DOB for one guy is 2010," (not DOH, DOB) and "Yeah, he wasn't on any of the lists, now he is." Fumble fumble fumble.

Hunter and friends are having a tough time typing and error checking apparently. Don't worry though, the XJ merger committee is holding their hands just like the XJ negotiating did through the JCBA. Of course I know you believe it's all our fault and all your company's fault, however the fact remains we were still waiting around for a correct list that JH was suppose to maintain himself as the process laid out. In retrospect, JH probably understands now that not maintaining his own list, and just letting the company do it wasn't his smartest move.

It sounds like JH is FINALLY done with the list. Of course if we'd been CC'ed in sooner rather than later (when Bloch told your committee to send us the list), we'd probably be done two days ago. Friday we may have a list, or maybe we'll just be told to get another one together for Monday. If you do talk to your reps please advise them to CC us in so we can get to work right away doing JH and your committee's job for them.

For your reference, it does sound like we will keep "disputing" your list whenever it has errors.

This will get done eventually, until then we will continue error checking each list that comes out, and finding errors. I know you'd rather we didn't, but we are going to. That's just what responsible reps do.

At first JH and the game of a million lists was disappointing, then it was comical, now we are all angry and tired and we'd just like it to be done.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

$hit storm

Man we have a mess on our hands boys. How are we ever gonna get straight with each other?

The new CEO is walking into a $hit storm.

PT is an A$$. I hope he uses his 3 mil to hire protection.

This is gonna be Red Book, Green Book, $hit Book all over again.

Good luck to us all. This sucks!!!! I should have left when all my friends did.

Oh well, I have the rest of the month off...going to OC to win a National Championship while you guys all fly the line, brag about your sorry regional airline and fight it out...losers!!!!

 

[CptMurf]

Just saw the latest 9E email... Why would he need the employment data for a new hire that is to be hired 3 weeks from now ("7/1/2011")???

I'm sure it was just a typo, but this wrong date business is ridiculous!

 

[bri5150]

Just saw the latest 9E email... Why would he need the employment data for a new hire that is to be hired 3 weeks from now ("7/1/2011")???

I'm sure it was just a typo, but this wrong date business is ridiculous!

At least they got it out in "two hours and 19 minutes" this time though.

Maybe we'll see something today?

 

[CptMurf]

At least they got it out in "two hours and 19 minutes" this time though.

Maybe we'll see something today?

Seems like Bloch is just requesting specifics now....Maybe he's afraid to ask for a new list.

 

[bri5150]

Seems like Bloch is just requesting specifics now....Maybe he's afraid to ask for a new list.

You can hardlly blame him. There will be less information for Mesaba to dispute, since we are the problem. :laugh:

 

[jynxyjericho]

You can hardlly blame him. There will be less information for Mesaba to dispute, since we are the problem. :laugh:

Yeah, all our fault. If only we were as careless, this list would be done by now.

 

[AiRegency]

Still at it hu?

Is there a dispute between what JH and his boys want to call a DOH and what Mesaba and JM want to call it? Yes. Does it matter? Not really, because Bloch sounds like he's good to go. We do dispute the continued and obvious errors in your own list. I swear every time I hear about your list its like watching an old football bloopers reel. "Yeah apparently DOB for one guy is 2010," (not DOH, DOB) and "Yeah, he wasn't on any of the lists, now he is." Fumble fumble fumble.

Hunter and friends are having a tough time typing and error checking apparently. Don't worry though, the XJ merger committee is holding their hands just like the XJ negotiating did through the JCBA. Of course I know you believe it's all our fault and all your company's fault, however the fact remains we were still waiting around for a correct list that JH was suppose to maintain himself as the process laid out. In retrospect, JH probably understands now that not maintaining his own list, and just letting the company do it wasn't his smartest move.

It sounds like JH is FINALLY done with the list. Of course if we'd been CC'ed in sooner rather than later (when Bloch told your committee to send us the list), we'd probably be done two days ago. Friday we may have a list, or maybe we'll just be told to get another one together for Monday. If you do talk to your reps please advise them to CC us in so we can get to work right away doing JH and your committee's job for them.

For your reference, it does sound like we will keep "disputing" your list whenever it has errors.

This will get done eventually, until then we will continue error checking each list that comes out, and finding errors. I know you'd rather we didn't, but we are going to. That's just what responsible reps do.

At first JH and the game of a million lists was disappointing, then it was comical, now we are all angry and tired and we'd just like it to be done.

Wow. Who's drinkin' the coolaid now? That's some potent MeSOBa elixir your downin' there.

 

[Raskal]

Any chance we can go back and dispute the NWA/Delta merger that created this whole dang mess????

^^ This.

 

[DoinTime]

For your reference, it does sound like we will keep "disputing" your list whenever it has errors.

From the sounds of it, it seems that the Mesaba committee won't be happy unless there are errors in the PCL list. Everything in the newest PCL list was factual (except for a couple b-days for new hires that the company provided bad data on). I'm told Bloch has dismissed all of the Mesaba committees whining and is working again on producing the award. Lets hope that Mesaba doesn't try a post award dispute and drag this thing out even longer.

 

[bri5150]

From the sounds of it, it seems that the Mesaba committee won't be happy unless there are errors in the PCL list. Everything in the newest PCL list was factual (except for a couple b-days for new hires that the company provided bad data on). I'm told Bloch has dismissed all of the Mesaba committees whining and is working again on producing the award. Lets hope that Mesaba doesn't try a post award dispute and drag this thing out even longer.

Why did Mesaba find the bad b-days and not Pinnacle? That is the heart of the problem. The 9E leadership can't even get an accurate list out after 2 or 3 attempts. How are they going to lead us when times are tough? Why should I vote for someone who can't even organize and verify data properly? Their negotiations would go very poorly when the opposite party sees how disorganized they are. Respect is the name of the game. Having accurate information that is organized well will get you that respect and more bargaining power at the table, not to mention making life easier. No wonder 9E management had no respect for your negotiations for 6 years. You probably came to the table with inaccurate information and disorganized.

I would say it is not out of bounds to ensure the information is correct. If the information is required on the list, then it should be accurate. Maybe Mr. Bloch decided not to use that info, so he is just asking for accurate info he is actually going to use to expedite the process.

p.s. Stop blaming the company for bad information you submitted. Have you not learned to verify your data? Our guys can catch it. Why not your guys?

 

[DoinTime]

Why did Mesaba find the bad b-days and not Pinnacle?

Mesaba didn't find it. Colgan did. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Why should I vote for someone who can't even organize and verify data properly?

I can't imagine that you would vote for a PCL rep. I thinks it's very likely that everyone will vote down partisan lines. Assuming equal voter turnout, that would result in the merged MEC being comprised of 6 PCL reps, 6 cjc reps and 2 msa reps.

 

[bri5150]

Mesaba didn't find it. Colgan did. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Same difference. Pinnacle didn't find it, and they are responsible for the information given. Also, then why are you blaming Mesaba for the dispute? If Colgan found it and didn't care, they wouldn't have said anything.

 

[bri5150]

I can't imagine that you would vote for a PCL rep. I thinks it's very likely that everyone will vote down partisan lines. Assuming equal voter turnout, that would result in the merged MEC being comprised of 6 PCL reps, 6 cjc reps and 2 msa reps.

I wouldn't be too confident that 9E pilots will vote for 9E leadership after the past 6 years of crap they have been through, not to mention the debacle this SLI and JCBA turned into that began with 9E actions. There were very few problems with the JCBA until the picketing, and there were very few problems with this SLI until Pinnacle's original proposal was known and the problems with their list began. I am sure disputing the DOH issue may have pissed some people off, but making sure everything is legal and on the up and up is a GOOD quality to have with union leadership.

Pinnacle leadership = nothing but stagnation and nothing getting done

Mesaba leadership = many things done since the last time 9E leadership got something done (see above post of mine for details).

 

[DoinTime]

Just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Reality will soon set in.

 

[bri5150]

Just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Reality will soon set in.

Another classic Pinnacle response. It's either name calling, or it's this type of comment here. Either way, I guess that means the discussion is over.

 

[xjhawk]

yeah typical of the 9E pilots who post here. What I know as truth, they cry lies. I also like how sure they are that Bloch sided with them on the DOH issue. Show me the proof? IOf he decides on letting you change your DOH, fine. But do not think that the mistakes, ineptness, and underhandedness of your union has not been seen by everyone. Oh and as for ours...yours....theirs....reps. When this is all done I wonder who will be crying the loudest and trying to keep us divided as a pilot group. When I vote in the next elections I will take a look at the published material that will come out of all of this and vote accordingly. I am hope everyone else will do the same and that will mean the right people will have the job. BTW, I think some crucial people in our union are going to Delta(they charge soldiers for bags) so a lot of great experience will not be available for our vote. As it is, I do think the MEsaba negotiators were more professional, better prepared, and used all their resources to provide the best they could give. 9E's did not

 

[gojo]

Mesaba didn't find it. Colgan did. Sorry to burst your bubble.




I can't imagine that you would vote for a PCL rep. I thinks it's very likely that everyone will vote down partisan lines. Assuming equal voter turnout, that would result in the merged MEC being comprised of 6 PCL reps, 6 cjc reps and 2 msa reps.

Well the responsible thing to do would be to get the facts, and then vote for the people with the best leadership qualities not just because they are a member of the good ol boy Memphis club. That's what elections are about. Educate yourself

 

[i fly boxes]

I wouldn't be too confident that 9E pilots will vote for 9E leadership after the past 6 years of crap they have been through, not to mention the debacle this SLI and JCBA turned into that began with 9E actions. There were very few problems with the JCBA until the picketing, and there were very few problems with this SLI until Pinnacle's original proposal was known and the problems with their list began. I am sure disputing the DOH issue may have pissed some people off, but making sure everything is legal and on the up and up is a GOOD quality to have with union leadership.

Pinnacle leadership = nothing but stagnation and nothing getting done

Mesaba leadership = many things done since the last time 9E leadership got something done (see above post of mine for details).

I will tell you one thing i am not voting for the current pncl mec chair thats for sure! I have no idea how he even got in there

 

[bri5150]

Well the responsible thing to do would be to get the facts, and then vote for the people with the best leadership qualities not just because they are a member of the good ol boy Memphis club. That's what elections are about. Educate yourself

I wouldn't say that's what they are about. I would say that's what they SHOULD be about. :laugh:

 

[gojo]

I wouldn't say that's what they are about. I would say that's what they SHOULD be about. :laugh:

Point taken. There's plenty of evidence that supports that statement

 

[CptMurf]

Mesaba didn't find it. Colgan did. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Regardless, it should have been caught by 9Es reps. BDay is important considering your seniority is based on age in the class.

I can't imagine that you would vote for a PCL rep. I thinks it's very likely that everyone will vote down partisan lines. Assuming equal voter turnout, that would result in the merged MEC being comprised of 6 PCL reps, 6 cjc reps and 2 msa reps.

I got no problem voting for a 9L rep. or line pilot, nor do I have a problem voting for a 9E line pilot, just not a present or past 9E rep. They have proved their worth.

 

[TurboAWD]

SOME of you XJ types need to realize a couple of things (keep in mind, I am NOT cheerleading the PCL MEC):

1) XJ and 9E are totally different companies, and if the XJ MEC was dealing with PCL mgmt the whole time, things would have almost certainly been different (read: more like the way it turned out at 9E)

2) XJ pilots are not special. In fact, overall they are the exact same type of peope who work at 9E. Or Eagle. Or Delta or American, for that matter. As a group (or groups), pilots are remarkably similar. Yes, 9E's hiring practices may have resulted in a few more bad apples than some other carriers (or perhaps not).

3) Same thing as number two applies to your MEC vs the PCL MEC.

4) The arbitrator is an experienced pro. If the 9E postion and or actions are as terrible as some of you make out, then that will be considered, same for XJ and CJC. Keep that in mind when the decision comes out. The PCL MEC will not write it- a neutral arbitrator will.

I still suspect we will see some sort of status and category, and that DOH is unlikely to be used for anything.

 

[xjhawk]

The big guess is what he will do and what method he will use when he applies HIS logic. DOH will be fairly simple-if he puts fences in, that will be the hard part-when bidding comes. If he chooses another method, we all wonder what he will group together. (JEts=jets) (900=900) (200=200)(200's=Q's) First group is 900's together and those positions, next would be the 200 positions and maybe the Q's at Colgan, then Saab (but lets not forget the pay differences at each "like" position. I laughed at some 9E guy on here putting all 9E jets with XJ's 900's-nice try, they are different in pay and size.

I will have to agree with another post-we are all pretty much the same-I call it the 10% rule. everywhere you go has 10% who are Dumba$$es- Those usually make it through when an airline hires a lot and fast. We have all flown with them. Then you have the "I am too good for (insert airline/reserve...here). There are 10% of those too. So maybe it is a 20% rule. In the end, no matter how this works out we all need to get along and work together. When you meet a fellow pilot, try not to make the first question out of your mouth to be....."where you Pinnacle, Mesaba, or Colgan?" Try instead-"Nice to meet you, where are you from? are you married? have kids? Or just living the high life being single"