Dangerous Capt.

[Windsor]

Dont let this slide.

There is a guy I fly with who is dangerous, and he is going to wreck a plane, get someone hurt, or (God forbid) kill someone. I have flown with him quite a bit over the past two years, the way our schedules work we usually fly with the same guy for the whole month. I have reason to believe that there will be an incident at some point in the near future because he makes stupid mistakes.

It is the consensus of all of the FOs at the base that he is unsafe and will have an incident before his time is up. There are several FAs who will not fly with him, and ALL of them dislike him and are nervous about flying with him (although they maintain a professional attitude throughout).

If you have proof of these allegations, then that is reason enough to go to Pro Standards or the chief pilots office or whatever your company might have. If you and your co-workers feel this way, then you are obligated to do something about it. Its a safety issue and needs to be dealt with.

 

[caneylane]

"Be polite. Be firm. After landing collect your belongings, get off the airplane, call scheduling and explain to them that you will not fly with this individual again but you would be happy to be rescheduled on another trip."

This is good advice. Do this after you beat the balls out of this jackass for laying a hand on you.

 

[DrProc]

The FAA safety hotline, sorry, I don't know the number off hand, offers whistle blower protection. If and when he hits you again, once the airplane lands, walk off, call the CP and airport police, file charges, and file a lawsuit against the company and this guy. If the company has at least one competent person in management, then this guy will be gone instantly.

 

[Huck]

I flew with a guy like this, and now he's dead. And he took three people with him. I was NOT with him because I quit - it was a corporate gig, and he was the chief pilot, and he sang in church choir with the company owner (who is now one of the dead guys), so I knew what the outcome of any confrontation would be.

Do yourself a favor - look up the crash of a beechjet in ~1991 in Rome Georgia - the one owned by Bruno's. I knew those guys too and that captain was just like what you described. His F/O didn't quit (though he did go to the CEO to complain). The CEO and the F/O are both dead now too.

Bottom line: don't ever underestimate how bad this situation can get. Do something NOW or turn in your ID and let someone else go to glory with him. I speak from (traumatic) experience.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

No Professional Standards department. Just CP and other 121 required positions. With the CP, dialog will lead to a conversation with the pilot in question, which will lead to a more hostile work environment. The folks who are onboard with this idea have made it clear; they will not sign the letter without a "remove this guy from flight-duty" clause. They do not want to confront or deal with the guy on a personal level.

I might add that he treats his FA and FO like shhhh all day, then at the end of the day, will apologize and try to make up. A lot like an abusive relationship (parent/spouse).

(80, nice guess, but please edit and remove the name of any company... I don't want this thread popping up when someone in the Regionals Board searches any company's name, thanks.)

Know what? You are in the right. Let the CP know how this guy operates in the cockpit, put it in writing...and have the face to face in the office. Let the CP know you aren't the only one. He probably knows this already.

HE lays a hand on you and you slap him right back...let him know you expect professionalism from him....which he has not displayed so far.

Layovers? I ain't socializing with him, no matter how many apologies he makes. Hopefully, by then the CP has taken him off the line.

Man up, bro...this is the time.

 

[vectorvictor]

One strike you're out.

If the dude hit you I cannot for the life of me think of a reason why you have flown another leg with this Jack@ss. You should have finished up the leg, told him that you will not accept violence in the cockpit and that you will never fly with him again.

On the way out the door mention that if he ever lays a hand on you again the he will be left with a bloody stump and a broken nose.

I completely agree. I would have finished the leg as professionally as possible, packed my flight case, and walked into the terminal. Let this jack@ss figure out how he is going to explain why his first officer is sitting in the terminal and refuses to get back in the plane.

You don't need to query a bunch of pilots to solve a third grade playground problem. Kick his elder @ss next time.

 

[737 Pylt]

Gentlemen,

I work for a smaller 121 carrier. I won't get into details about where I work, what I fly, or any details whatsoever. I'll get straight to the point.

There is a guy I fly with who is dangerous, and he is going to wreck a plane, get someone hurt, or (God forbid) kill someone. I have flown with him quite a bit over the past two years, the way our schedules work we usually fly with the same guy for the whole month. I have reason to believe that there will be an incident at some point in the near future because he makes stupid mistakes.

• He has taken his hands off the throttle (and eyes off the runway) at the beginning of the takeoff roll to catch/chase-down stuff (bluetooth headset, cell phone, pens, keys, PDA, MP3 player, etc) that he placed between the visor and windscreen which came sliding off and onto the tiller, his flight bag, and aircraft library (he actually went after the cell phone with his throttle hand, and steered the aircraft toward the left edge of the runway).
• He has a hard time setting the parking break and either doesn't realize it's not set, or doesn't care that it's not set when we're on taxiways (often resulting in the aircraft rolling forward or aft in a VERY busy airport).
• He has hit his FOs on numerous occasions (that's plural, he's hit me and several others).
• The other day, he was about to cross a runway he was told to hold short of, even said "clear left and right" to the FO who had his head down making calculations. The FO looked up to correct him to hold short and they stopped just in time to see a Barron cross in front of them on the takeoff roll (est. 70 kts).
• He tries to "teach a lesson" to FOs who make minor mistakes on call-outs or profiles (he often turns out to be wrong in his correction) during critical phases of flight (reminiscent of the CFI who shouts at the student over the gear horn through the flair and into touchdown).
• He is hostile and creates an unsafe cockpit atmosphere. No such thing as CRM with him.
• During anything other than normal operations, he is near-hysterical and never follows SOP, making nonstandard calls, and ALWAYS takes the plane, rather than fulfilling his role. (e.g. Aborted takeoff due to oil pressure Master Warning alarm as PNF. Checklist says: "PNF: Oil Pressure, ABORT-ABORT-ABORT" This guy: "PNF: MY PLANE!!!
• His landings are rarely on centerline, never with crosswind correction.
• The list goes on-and-on, and I know I'm missing the most outrageous violations, but I am in a bit of a hurry and have other things to do, so I hope this gives you an idea... ETC...

Outside of being unsafe for flight, this is his third career, bought all his flight time and never instructed. He's high-strung, short-tempered, and is not a good pilot. His taxiing is horrendous, landings painful, and he just isn't a pilot. He is very proud and excited about his uniform, wears it even for pleasure travel. He is about 2 years from retiring and has always wanted to be a pilot, so it seems he's just playing a role. He doesn't need the money.

It is the consensus of all of the FOs at the base that he is unsafe and will have an incident before his time is up. There are several FAs who will not fly with him, and ALL of them dislike him and are nervous about flying with him (although they maintain a professional attitude throughout).

The base is a small one, but the company is big enough that he's slipped through the cracks at the company. They know he's a difficult personality, but no one has verbalized concerns for fear of him finding out and making life even more difficult with him.

I recently had a confrontation with him and have discussed the idea of a vote of no confidence with other FOs, FAs, and CAs who have flown with him (he's qualified in both seats and flies with other CAs on occasion). The vote would be in the form of a letter to the company detailing concerns and itemized events wherein our lives were threatened or endangered, as well as a refusal to fly with the individual after 30 days of delivery of that letter. Furthermore, should the individual not be removed from the flight-line, I would forward a copy of the letter to the FAA.

I realize that this is mutiny and that it is extremely exceptional, almost unheard-of, but I am scared and tired.

Is this a bad idea? What are your thoughts? What are the possible repercussions (no union, incidentally)? I am not convinced this is a good idea, but it is the best idea. Our CP is a push-over and won't do anything about it if/when anyone mentions anything. Any better ideas? Thank you in advance.

Shy

Ceasar....I mean phxflyr, is that you?
See what happens when you lower your standards!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
If you lean over and give him a big hug, and tell him you're hpilot, I'm sure he'll lighten up a little bit!

737

 

[tracearabians]

Gentlemen,

I work for a smaller 121 carrier. I won't get into details about where I work, what I fly, or any details whatsoever. I'll get straight to the point.

There is a guy I fly with who is dangerous, and he is going to wreck a plane, get someone hurt, or (God forbid) kill someone. I have flown with him quite a bit over the past two years, the way our schedules work we usually fly with the same guy for the whole month. I have reason to believe that there will be an incident at some point in the near future because he makes stupid mistakes.

• He has taken his hands off the throttle (and eyes off the runway) at the beginning of the takeoff roll to catch/chase-down stuff (bluetooth headset, cell phone, pens, keys, PDA, MP3 player, etc) that he placed between the visor and windscreen which came sliding off and onto the tiller, his flight bag, and aircraft library (he actually went after the cell phone with his throttle hand, and steered the aircraft toward the left edge of the runway).
• He has a hard time setting the parking break and either doesn't realize it's not set, or doesn't care that it's not set when we're on taxiways (often resulting in the aircraft rolling forward or aft in a VERY busy airport).
• He has hit his FOs on numerous occasions (that's plural, he's hit me and several others).
• The other day, he was about to cross a runway he was told to hold short of, even said "clear left and right" to the FO who had his head down making calculations. The FO looked up to correct him to hold short and they stopped just in time to see a Barron cross in front of them on the takeoff roll (est. 70 kts).
• He tries to "teach a lesson" to FOs who make minor mistakes on call-outs or profiles (he often turns out to be wrong in his correction) during critical phases of flight (reminiscent of the CFI who shouts at the student over the gear horn through the flair and into touchdown).
• He is hostile and creates an unsafe cockpit atmosphere. No such thing as CRM with him.
• During anything other than normal operations, he is near-hysterical and never follows SOP, making nonstandard calls, and ALWAYS takes the plane, rather than fulfilling his role. (e.g. Aborted takeoff due to oil pressure Master Warning alarm as PNF. Checklist says: "PNF: Oil Pressure, ABORT-ABORT-ABORT" This guy: "PNF: MY PLANE!!!
• His landings are rarely on centerline, never with crosswind correction.
• The list goes on-and-on, and I know I'm missing the most outrageous violations, but I am in a bit of a hurry and have other things to do, so I hope this gives you an idea... ETC...

Outside of being unsafe for flight, this is his third career, bought all his flight time and never instructed. He's high-strung, short-tempered, and is not a good pilot. His taxiing is horrendous, landings painful, and he just isn't a pilot. He is very proud and excited about his uniform, wears it even for pleasure travel. He is about 2 years from retiring and has always wanted to be a pilot, so it seems he's just playing a role. He doesn't need the money.

It is the consensus of all of the FOs at the base that he is unsafe and will have an incident before his time is up. There are several FAs who will not fly with him, and ALL of them dislike him and are nervous about flying with him (although they maintain a professional attitude throughout).

The base is a small one, but the company is big enough that he's slipped through the cracks at the company. They know he's a difficult personality, but no one has verbalized concerns for fear of him finding out and making life even more difficult with him.

I recently had a confrontation with him and have discussed the idea of a vote of no confidence with other FOs, FAs, and CAs who have flown with him (he's qualified in both seats and flies with other CAs on occasion). The vote would be in the form of a letter to the company detailing concerns and itemized events wherein our lives were threatened or endangered, as well as a refusal to fly with the individual after 30 days of delivery of that letter. Furthermore, should the individual not be removed from the flight-line, I would forward a copy of the letter to the FAA.

I realize that this is mutiny and that it is extremely exceptional, almost unheard-of, but I am scared and tired.

Is this a bad idea? What are your thoughts? What are the possible repercussions (no union, incidentally)? I am not convinced this is a good idea, but it is the best idea. Our CP is a push-over and won't do anything about it if/when anyone mentions anything. Any better ideas? Thank you in advance.

Shy

Hey ! I don't fly for an airline but I flew for a plumming supply company in Meridian, Ms ( N438SP ) for five years. The main most so called mo fo in charge one day at KATL during taxi took his headset off and called the hotel we had just checked out of because of a thought he had about his room charge ! When ground told us to contact tower ,I did ,and when tower told us to taxi into position, I did ! He ask me,what are you doing ? I said following instructions !
What I should have done was ask to go back to the ramp !

 

[deadstick]

Do not hit back. A single hit -- take it because you are now in the driver's seat. You are the professional. The trip is over. Multiple blows -- defend yourself. No questions asked.

Do not get back in the airplane. You cannot fly another leg with this person because, if you have a real emergency, this person could become unglued and make the situation worse. Continuing to fly with this person decreases the weight of your argument, too.

I was taught "A soldier willing to sacrifice his life for his men should also be willing to sacrifice his career.” It's moral courage, Shy. If you feel you are right (and it sounds like you are), do it. Stand tall. You have strength in numbers. Your life and the lives of your passengers necessitate this action.

Next-to-the-worse case scenario: quit. I'd like to think YOUR life and YOUR tickets are worth more than THAT job. There are other carriers. I hear there is a hiring “boom.”

 

[Mr Wu]

Send the above letter to TB and Mikey. This has happened twice before (at least) and there were no repercussions on the F/O's. One resulted in the firing of the captain and the second one had the captain removed from the line. If you say nothing and just leave, you are just as liable for this guy's actions as he is.

 

[glasspilot1]

>> During anything other than normal operations, he is near-hysterical and never follows SOP, making nonstandard calls, and ALWAYS takes the plane, rather than fulfilling his role. (e.g. Aborted takeoff due to oil pressure Master Warning alarm as PNF. Checklist says: "PNF: Oil Pressure, ABORT-ABORT-ABORT" This guy: "PNF: MY PLANE!!! <<

I'm not defending this guy, cause it can't be done.....but: Your co. is too "wordy" on a critical situation like an aborted T/O. At TWA with the F/O making the T/O the Captain said: "I've got it". At American the Capt says "Abort" and grabs the controls. Slightly different words but the same theme; very few words in a situation with no time for words. For the PNF to see the problem then formulate the specific words and then say Abort 3 times, well by then you're off the end of the runway!

 

[80for80]

Shy guy, since you have no pro standards, go directly to old man Colgan and tell him about this guy and show him the marks he left from hitting you. That should be enough proof for old man Colgan to take action.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

Shy guy, since you have no pro standards, go directly to old man Colgan and tell him about this guy and show him the marks he left from hitting you. That should be enough proof for old man Colgan to take action.

The Hit, once again, was open handed, flat on the chest about as hard as you would give someone high-five after a sweet slam dunk: pretty hard, but not hard enough to leave a mark. One time it was the back of the hand across the left shoulder/arm. Again, pretty hard, but nothing to write home about.

Thank you all for your responses. I would get so wound-up in-flight and after each day with the guy that I hustled out of the airport and hit the road as quickly as possible, often times abandoning the flight attendant to put up with him. I have NEVER been confrontational, and after reading how some of you would respond (obviously, this struck a nerve), I realize how much I have RUN from any confrontation.

One time after he had a chest-poking session on the ramp with me in front of passengers about my tie, I did lose it. I refused a trip, but didn't really explain myself to crew scheduling.

I've been thinking about all this, everything you guys have said, and I'm actually getting embarassed about how big of a push-over I've been and how I've succumbed to his psychological game. I am afraid of the CP and I don't want to talk to anyone over at HQ. All I know is that he is unsafe and I won't fly with him anymore. We don't have a hard-and-fast system that will prevent pilots from being paired-up, but I've let scheduling know that I won't fly with him anymore. I've been told not to rock the boat and keep a low profile. All that seems to have done is kept me out of upgrade (he alleges that he's called HQ and warned the CP about me and my "attitude"). I didn't think about it at the time, but it is humiliating to have guys ridicule me for not having stood up to this prick, but I've never had to stand up for myself. I've never been attacked like that. That's why I wanted this post to be as anynonomous (sp?) as possible, but it's pretty obvious that some folks know who I work for, and eventually will figure out who I am and what base I'm at. Nothing more humiliating than that. Sweet.

I guess I don't have to worry about writing the letter. I know management checks this place out and regularly searches for posts about their company, no doubt this will now be at the top of the list. Nice...

Shy

 

[Chest Rockwell]

You have got to figure out if you are going to stay in this profession or not. Avoidance bidding is a cop out when it comes to safety issues. I know that this is easier said than done. It is easier to sleep at night after doing the right thing than letting it slide.

You may be surprised by management's take on this. What many pilots regard as common knowledge may not be so among mgmt. I am always amazed when pilots complain about someone and you ask the CP about them and they say no one will come in and say anything. Even if they are aware on a second-hand level, they cannot take action on strictly hearsay. Don't expect them to do anything by reading comments on an anonymous forum either.

If the company will tolerate this behavior from a captain, the job is not worth keeping. Say your peace and move on.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Wow... I think I know who you are talking about. I wont mention names or bases but it is south of mason dixon and he is an old stupid bastard. I observed him doing IOE once with a transition captain. YES FOLKS HE IS A Check Airman. Most people who have seniority bid around him. He is an absolute menace and he does slip through cracks. It is one of those bases that for some reason doesnt get much attention from the brain factory. Long flight legs and out of the way. Talking to him wont do much good. He isnt going to listen. He is awaiting retirement with his pass privilidges intact. Some things you can do. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. Every event. fill out company ASA report and send them into safety officer. Yes he reads all reports that are sent in. I know that for a fact. Dont mention names but maybe put crew base. Encourage all other FOs FAs to do same. Keep stack of reports and fill them out during cruise or in between flights. DONT BE SILENT IN COCKPIT. You make sure you get everything on tape. Every protest and every correction. When flight is done.... you get out the book and ask him to explain what he is doing because you are confused and cannot fly non standard. Make his life as miserable as he does others. If he refuses to explain himself then you tell him that you have no choice but to ask Director of Standards or Chief Pilot because it conflicts with your training. Dont argue during critical phase of flight but dont drop it either. I agree with others about not letting the flight go when things are unsafe. People have been fired when other pilots refuse to fly with someone and all the details come out. One thing you cant do is walk off and not fly and not blow whistle. You cannot let him fly with some other FO they bring in to replace you. If you truly believe he is unsafe and it sounds like you do.... it is the same as letting a guy you think is drunk fly. Just because you wont fly you cant let someone else. It is the toughest decision. I think the idea of the letter is good.... but everyone should bring it to HQ and stand united. As tough as it is to train pilots etc..... if they see FOs that dont want to fly and might quit, knowing how hard it is to get good FOs now one captain in a company getting fat on captains and is close to retirement isnt worth saving and he will get what is coming to him. Oh and if he ever lays a finger on anyone then that person needs to go to parking lot with him, remove ID and tell him if he wants to get physical then he can start then. I bet he gets stick shakers on take off a lot doesnt he

 

[The_Russian]

I flew with a guy like this, and now he's dead. And he took three people with him. I was NOT with him because I quit - it was a corporate gig, and he was the chief pilot, and he sang in church choir with the company owner (who is now one of the dead guys), so I knew what the outcome of any confrontation would be.

Do yourself a favor - look up the crash of a beechjet in ~1991 in Rome Georgia - the one owned by Bruno's. I knew those guys too and that captain was just like what you described. His F/O didn't quit (though he did go to the CEO to complain). The CEO and the F/O are both dead now too.

Bottom line: don't ever underestimate how bad this situation can get. Do something NOW or turn in your ID and let someone else go to glory with him. I speak from (traumatic) experience.

Huck,

You get right to the point. As you can imagine, I have flown with many guys like this at my airline. Some of them are dead, and some of them have killed others. The rest sustain themselves as a menace to others until they get their shot at becoming a smoking hole. Due to attrition, these guys tend to slip through. It is too bad, because they will hurt someone that is innocent.

_____________________

Shy,

Do whatever it takes to remove this guy from the system. We have done these things before at my employer, all with great success. Sadly, even though they may be fired, they end up flying somewhere else. Their logbook only shows that they have a great level of experience, not their level of competence. That is where most of the guys were killed or crashed aircraft. If you want more detailed info, pm me. I will try to help you out.

Ruskie

 

[instructordude]

The Hit, once again, was open handed, flat on the chest about as hard as you would give someone high-five after a sweet slam dunk: pretty hard, but not hard enough to leave a mark. One time it was the back of the hand across the left shoulder/arm. Again, pretty hard, but nothing to write home about.

Have you considered maybe martial arts and lifting weights. Also, intimidating stares and body language can be intimidating. A lot of times when I fly with a known difficult Capt, during the first lef of the trip I will finish a checklist with a tough stare so he knows I mean business and not going to take anything. Tone of voice can also let him know who is the tougher dude.

One time after he had a chest-poking session on the ramp with me in front of passengers about my tie, I did lose it. I refused a trip, but didn't really explain myself to crew scheduling.

Was your tie out of wack? If it was then maybe you deserved it? Always be professional.

I've been told not to rock the boat and keep a low profile. All that seems to have done is kept me out of upgrade

Just confront him. Tell him you will screw his wife if he doesn't stop. If he smiles, laughs and says he doesn't care then well, she is either fat and ugly (And not worth it) or he is gay. Either way, you need to find a new job at this point. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[CA1900]

Just confront him. Tell him you will screw his wife if he doesn't stop...

Here's a training video on how to handle this situation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpTTsTJS8j4


(some language NSFW)

 

[instructordude]

Here's a training video on how to handle this situation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpTTsTJS8j4


(some language NSFW)

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!:beer:

Thanks for a great laugh man!!!!!!!

 

[BigMeat]

CA1900 Im sorry to have to say this, but, YOU RULE!

Im going to have to put that in the memory bank. MILFs