Dangerous Capt.

[Windsor]

Dont let this slide.

There is a guy I fly with who is dangerous, and he is going to wreck a plane, get someone hurt, or (God forbid) kill someone. I have flown with him quite a bit over the past two years, the way our schedules work we usually fly with the same guy for the whole month. I have reason to believe that there will be an incident at some point in the near future because he makes stupid mistakes.

It is the consensus of all of the FOs at the base that he is unsafe and will have an incident before his time is up. There are several FAs who will not fly with him, and ALL of them dislike him and are nervous about flying with him (although they maintain a professional attitude throughout).

If you have proof of these allegations, then that is reason enough to go to Pro Standards or the chief pilots office or whatever your company might have. If you and your co-workers feel this way, then you are obligated to do something about it. Its a safety issue and needs to be dealt with.

 

[caneylane]

"Be polite. Be firm. After landing collect your belongings, get off the airplane, call scheduling and explain to them that you will not fly with this individual again but you would be happy to be rescheduled on another trip."

This is good advice. Do this after you beat the balls out of this jackass for laying a hand on you.

 

[DrProc]

The FAA safety hotline, sorry, I don't know the number off hand, offers whistle blower protection. If and when he hits you again, once the airplane lands, walk off, call the CP and airport police, file charges, and file a lawsuit against the company and this guy. If the company has at least one competent person in management, then this guy will be gone instantly.

 

[Huck]

I flew with a guy like this, and now he's dead. And he took three people with him. I was NOT with him because I quit - it was a corporate gig, and he was the chief pilot, and he sang in church choir with the company owner (who is now one of the dead guys), so I knew what the outcome of any confrontation would be.

Do yourself a favor - look up the crash of a beechjet in ~1991 in Rome Georgia - the one owned by Bruno's. I knew those guys too and that captain was just like what you described. His F/O didn't quit (though he did go to the CEO to complain). The CEO and the F/O are both dead now too.

Bottom line: don't ever underestimate how bad this situation can get. Do something NOW or turn in your ID and let someone else go to glory with him. I speak from (traumatic) experience.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

No Professional Standards department. Just CP and other 121 required positions. With the CP, dialog will lead to a conversation with the pilot in question, which will lead to a more hostile work environment. The folks who are onboard with this idea have made it clear; they will not sign the letter without a "remove this guy from flight-duty" clause. They do not want to confront or deal with the guy on a personal level.

I might add that he treats his FA and FO like shhhh all day, then at the end of the day, will apologize and try to make up. A lot like an abusive relationship (parent/spouse).

(80, nice guess, but please edit and remove the name of any company... I don't want this thread popping up when someone in the Regionals Board searches any company's name, thanks.)

Know what? You are in the right. Let the CP know how this guy operates in the cockpit, put it in writing...and have the face to face in the office. Let the CP know you aren't the only one. He probably knows this already.

HE lays a hand on you and you slap him right back...let him know you expect professionalism from him....which he has not displayed so far.

Layovers? I ain't socializing with him, no matter how many apologies he makes. Hopefully, by then the CP has taken him off the line.

Man up, bro...this is the time.

 

[vectorvictor]

One strike you're out.

If the dude hit you I cannot for the life of me think of a reason why you have flown another leg with this Jack@ss. You should have finished up the leg, told him that you will not accept violence in the cockpit and that you will never fly with him again.

On the way out the door mention that if he ever lays a hand on you again the he will be left with a bloody stump and a broken nose.

I completely agree. I would have finished the leg as professionally as possible, packed my flight case, and walked into the terminal. Let this jack@ss figure out how he is going to explain why his first officer is sitting in the terminal and refuses to get back in the plane.

You don't need to query a bunch of pilots to solve a third grade playground problem. Kick his elder @ss next time.

 

[737 Pylt]

Gentlemen,

I work for a smaller 121 carrier. I won't get into details about where I work, what I fly, or any details whatsoever. I'll get straight to the point.

There is a guy I fly with who is dangerous, and he is going to wreck a plane, get someone hurt, or (God forbid) kill someone. I have flown with him quite a bit over the past two years, the way our schedules work we usually fly with the same guy for the whole month. I have reason to believe that there will be an incident at some point in the near future because he makes stupid mistakes.

• He has taken his hands off the throttle (and eyes off the runway) at the beginning of the takeoff roll to catch/chase-down stuff (bluetooth headset, cell phone, pens, keys, PDA, MP3 player, etc) that he placed between the visor and windscreen which came sliding off and onto the tiller, his flight bag, and aircraft library (he actually went after the cell phone with his throttle hand, and steered the aircraft toward the left edge of the runway).
• He has a hard time setting the parking break and either doesn't realize it's not set, or doesn't care that it's not set when we're on taxiways (often resulting in the aircraft rolling forward or aft in a VERY busy airport).
• He has hit his FOs on numerous occasions (that's plural, he's hit me and several others).
• The other day, he was about to cross a runway he was told to hold short of, even said "clear left and right" to the FO who had his head down making calculations. The FO looked up to correct him to hold short and they stopped just in time to see a Barron cross in front of them on the takeoff roll (est. 70 kts).
• He tries to "teach a lesson" to FOs who make minor mistakes on call-outs or profiles (he often turns out to be wrong in his correction) during critical phases of flight (reminiscent of the CFI who shouts at the student over the gear horn through the flair and into touchdown).
• He is hostile and creates an unsafe cockpit atmosphere. No such thing as CRM with him.
• During anything other than normal operations, he is near-hysterical and never follows SOP, making nonstandard calls, and ALWAYS takes the plane, rather than fulfilling his role. (e.g. Aborted takeoff due to oil pressure Master Warning alarm as PNF. Checklist says: "PNF: Oil Pressure, ABORT-ABORT-ABORT" This guy: "PNF: MY PLANE!!!
• His landings are rarely on centerline, never with crosswind correction.
• The list goes on-and-on, and I know I'm missing the most outrageous violations, but I am in a bit of a hurry and have other things to do, so I hope this gives you an idea... ETC...

Outside of being unsafe for flight, this is his third career, bought all his flight time and never instructed. He's high-strung, short-tempered, and is not a good pilot. His taxiing is horrendous, landings painful, and he just isn't a pilot. He is very proud and excited about his uniform, wears it even for pleasure travel. He is about 2 years from retiring and has always wanted to be a pilot, so it seems he's just playing a role. He doesn't need the money.

It is the consensus of all of the FOs at the base that he is unsafe and will have an incident before his time is up. There are several FAs who will not fly with him, and ALL of them dislike him and are nervous about flying with him (although they maintain a professional attitude throughout).

The base is a small one, but the company is big enough that he's slipped through the cracks at the company. They know he's a difficult personality, but no one has verbalized concerns for fear of him finding out and making life even more difficult with him.

I recently had a confrontation with him and have discussed the idea of a vote of no confidence with other FOs, FAs, and CAs who have flown with him (he's qualified in both seats and flies with other CAs on occasion). The vote would be in the form of a letter to the company detailing concerns and itemized events wherein our lives were threatened or endangered, as well as a refusal to fly with the individual after 30 days of delivery of that letter. Furthermore, should the individual not be removed from the flight-line, I would forward a copy of the letter to the FAA.

I realize that this is mutiny and that it is extremely exceptional, almost unheard-of, but I am scared and tired.

Is this a bad idea? What are your thoughts? What are the possible repercussions (no union, incidentally)? I am not convinced this is a good idea, but it is the best idea. Our CP is a push-over and won't do anything about it if/when anyone mentions anything. Any better ideas? Thank you in advance.

Shy

Ceasar....I mean phxflyr, is that you?
See what happens when you lower your standards!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
If you lean over and give him a big hug, and tell him you're hpilot, I'm sure he'll lighten up a little bit!

737

 

[tracearabians]

Gentlemen,

I work for a smaller 121 carrier. I won't get into details about where I work, what I fly, or any details whatsoever. I'll get straight to the point.

There is a guy I fly with who is dangerous, and he is going to wreck a plane, get someone hurt, or (God forbid) kill someone. I have flown with him quite a bit over the past two years, the way our schedules work we usually fly with the same guy for the whole month. I have reason to believe that there will be an incident at some point in the near future because he makes stupid mistakes.

• He has taken his hands off the throttle (and eyes off the runway) at the beginning of the takeoff roll to catch/chase-down stuff (bluetooth headset, cell phone, pens, keys, PDA, MP3 player, etc) that he placed between the visor and windscreen which came sliding off and onto the tiller, his flight bag, and aircraft library (he actually went after the cell phone with his throttle hand, and steered the aircraft toward the left edge of the runway).
• He has a hard time setting the parking break and either doesn't realize it's not set, or doesn't care that it's not set when we're on taxiways (often resulting in the aircraft rolling forward or aft in a VERY busy airport).
• He has hit his FOs on numerous occasions (that's plural, he's hit me and several others).
• The other day, he was about to cross a runway he was told to hold short of, even said "clear left and right" to the FO who had his head down making calculations. The FO looked up to correct him to hold short and they stopped just in time to see a Barron cross in front of them on the takeoff roll (est. 70 kts).
• He tries to "teach a lesson" to FOs who make minor mistakes on call-outs or profiles (he often turns out to be wrong in his correction) during critical phases of flight (reminiscent of the CFI who shouts at the student over the gear horn through the flair and into touchdown).
• He is hostile and creates an unsafe cockpit atmosphere. No such thing as CRM with him.
• During anything other than normal operations, he is near-hysterical and never follows SOP, making nonstandard calls, and ALWAYS takes the plane, rather than fulfilling his role. (e.g. Aborted takeoff due to oil pressure Master Warning alarm as PNF. Checklist says: "PNF: Oil Pressure, ABORT-ABORT-ABORT" This guy: "PNF: MY PLANE!!!
• His landings are rarely on centerline, never with crosswind correction.
• The list goes on-and-on, and I know I'm missing the most outrageous violations, but I am in a bit of a hurry and have other things to do, so I hope this gives you an idea... ETC...

Outside of being unsafe for flight, this is his third career, bought all his flight time and never instructed. He's high-strung, short-tempered, and is not a good pilot. His taxiing is horrendous, landings painful, and he just isn't a pilot. He is very proud and excited about his uniform, wears it even for pleasure travel. He is about 2 years from retiring and has always wanted to be a pilot, so it seems he's just playing a role. He doesn't need the money.

It is the consensus of all of the FOs at the base that he is unsafe and will have an incident before his time is up. There are several FAs who will not fly with him, and ALL of them dislike him and are nervous about flying with him (although they maintain a professional attitude throughout).

The base is a small one, but the company is big enough that he's slipped through the cracks at the company. They know he's a difficult personality, but no one has verbalized concerns for fear of him finding out and making life even more difficult with him.

I recently had a confrontation with him and have discussed the idea of a vote of no confidence with other FOs, FAs, and CAs who have flown with him (he's qualified in both seats and flies with other CAs on occasion). The vote would be in the form of a letter to the company detailing concerns and itemized events wherein our lives were threatened or endangered, as well as a refusal to fly with the individual after 30 days of delivery of that letter. Furthermore, should the individual not be removed from the flight-line, I would forward a copy of the letter to the FAA.

I realize that this is mutiny and that it is extremely exceptional, almost unheard-of, but I am scared and tired.

Is this a bad idea? What are your thoughts? What are the possible repercussions (no union, incidentally)? I am not convinced this is a good idea, but it is the best idea. Our CP is a push-over and won't do anything about it if/when anyone mentions anything. Any better ideas? Thank you in advance.

Shy

Hey ! I don't fly for an airline but I flew for a plumming supply company in Meridian, Ms ( N438SP ) for five years. The main most so called mo fo in charge one day at KATL during taxi took his headset off and called the hotel we had just checked out of because of a thought he had about his room charge ! When ground told us to contact tower ,I did ,and when tower told us to taxi into position, I did ! He ask me,what are you doing ? I said following instructions !
What I should have done was ask to go back to the ramp !

 

[deadstick]

Do not hit back. A single hit -- take it because you are now in the driver's seat. You are the professional. The trip is over. Multiple blows -- defend yourself. No questions asked.

Do not get back in the airplane. You cannot fly another leg with this person because, if you have a real emergency, this person could become unglued and make the situation worse. Continuing to fly with this person decreases the weight of your argument, too.

I was taught "A soldier willing to sacrifice his life for his men should also be willing to sacrifice his career.” It's moral courage, Shy. If you feel you are right (and it sounds like you are), do it. Stand tall. You have strength in numbers. Your life and the lives of your passengers necessitate this action.

Next-to-the-worse case scenario: quit. I'd like to think YOUR life and YOUR tickets are worth more than THAT job. There are other carriers. I hear there is a hiring “boom.”

 

[Mr Wu]

Send the above letter to TB and Mikey. This has happened twice before (at least) and there were no repercussions on the F/O's. One resulted in the firing of the captain and the second one had the captain removed from the line. If you say nothing and just leave, you are just as liable for this guy's actions as he is.