DALPA Rep Says no go to merger....

[Superpilot92]

Spot on once again. We're dealing with a very angry group for the most part. Not sure if we need any of that here. Hopefully we have a choice.

No matter what you say, they'll say "our seniority is not for sale" So I guess ours is? The DL relative seniority deal on the table will have many of us stagnating for years in our bases unless we're willing to commute to the DC-9. At $125/hr it's not much more than my beaten down rate is now. I don't want any part of it.

LMAO you guys have no idea what your even bickering about!! :laugh: Yet you have it all figured out

Why not wait to discuss actual info, just a thought..........?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Your arrogance is appalling, exceeded only by your ignorance .....

What is arrogant about quoting basic contract law from a easily understood public source? The entire post was a recap of information in the public domain.

What gives? Got any facts you care to debate?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Well, it appears we can't even agree on the definition of apples and oranges let alone, compare apples to apples.

Reality check - breakout the 757's from the 767 and you lose about 100 WB's staffed at what per acft? Oh yeah a 757 is a WB - not (hint - 1. count the aisles, 2. does it need augmented crews). And $10/hr more than we pay does not make it one. Subtract ~ 1400 from your side.

Add the 68 (options will be exercised, front of the line) 787's that will be double or even triple crewed and it results in a minimum of 2000 positions.

Most of our pilots are also retiring at 60 - right now, so the retirement numbers are skewed in our favor as well.

But whatever, I don't expect to convince wankers like you anyways. Too bad Moak is going to blow what could be such a golden opportunity.....

Well correct me if I'm mistaken...but I think the following are true:
> The 767 is not going to be broke away from the 757. NWA's pay rates would come up to the blended rate.
> Some 757 flying does require augmented crews (in fact we have some dual crew 737 flying on daily 10+ hour turns to the Caribbean)
> The 777-200LR has more capability and range than the 787. It would require at least the 787's staffing.
> Other NWA pilots have written than their pilots will not retire at 60 if this deal happens, simply because a 30% raise looks pretty good from their seats.

I dunno, you tell me.

Your humble reporter & commentator,
~~~^~~~

 

[Noserider76]

LMAO you guys have no idea what your even bickering about!! :laugh: Yet you have it all figured out

Why not wait to discuss actual info, just a thought..........?

Well I am slow, but do attend my LEC meetings so I think I know a little of what we're bickering about. And don't you have some flows to learn? Good luck by the way.

 

[B737 Guy]

You've been at NWA for a few days. Shouldn't you be looking at 1950s-era ops manuals or something?

:laugh: :laugh:
Now thats funny.

 

[B737 Guy]

......

 

[Superpilot92]

Well I am slow, but do attend my LEC meetings so I think I know a little of what we're bickering about. And don't you have some flows to learn? Good luck by the way.

Flows on the -9?? Isnt that what the engineer is for? OH WAIT LMAO

 

[ExAF]

Take That

This whole thread is like....TAKE THAT YOU DEAD HORSE! DIE, DIE, DIE AGAIN!!!!!!

 

[Schwanker]

The DL relative seniority deal on the table will have many of us stagnating for years

Unless you grow, A LOT, you'll be stagnating for the next 13 years as you have hardly any retirements kicking in until 2020. By that time NWA will roll 1/2 it's list.

Schwanker

 

[Noserider76]

Unless you grow, A LOT, you'll be stagnating for the next 13 years as you have hardly any retirements kicking in until 2020. By that time NWA will roll 1/2 it's list.

Schwanker

Don't touch the horse, don't touch the horse, don't touch....ah crap, I can't help myself.....

We're all focused on our little peice of the puzzle I guess. I said stagnate in my base. I happen to live in an area with a few NW guys as neighbors (the ones I know are all good guys even though they're Navy) and there is no NW base within 1500 miles of here. They've made no secret of the fact they can't wait to get into the base I'm in and I can't really blame them. Commuting sucks and I'll never do it again unless I'm forced to.

If we merge, depending on the fence arrangement, the FOs will probably stagnate for years here. Compare that to the current environment of 70-100 new hires a month, new categories, and lots of movement at the present time. It's a similar pattern in most of the DL system.

I'm not saying anyone should care about my situation but there are many at DL with the same concerns. People take their seniority and migrate to the higher paying positions of which DL has many more currently, QOL, and no commute. I see stagnation across the entire current DL fleet after the merger as people go for the pay.

I do realize that there will be give and take on both sides if this happens. Just don't think we're over here jumping up and down. There'll be plenty of pain on both sides. From my position I see only downside for people in my situation. I hope I'm wrong and they can come up with a plan that is good for both sides. Believe it or not, I'd like you to be happy or no less happy than I am when this is all said and done.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Dead Horse?

Just about everyone expects this deal to be back in some form, probably without the contract goodies for the pilots' consent (since we did not consent we don't get the goodies).

In the mean time a flow of information probably helps us manage our expectations and gives us better SA.

The DAL/NWA deal is more compelling the more you look at it. We can limp along hoping our airlines' break even with $100+ oil, or we could be a Company with a greater income than the big cargo boys and with sufficient funding to grow and compete on the World market.

I do not want the pain of SLI integration either, but 20 years from now we might wish that we had swallowed the pill while it had a nice candy shell.

 

[DAL737FO]

Dead Horse?

Just about everyone expects this deal to be back in some form, probably without the contract goodies for the pilots' consent (since we did not consent we don't get the goodies).

I don't know who your "everyone" is but if you talk to your rep you will get a different picture. We haven't talked to NWA in over a week. No SLI, which apparently neither side is budging on, No deal.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I don't know who your "everyone" is but if you talk to your rep you will get a different picture. We haven't talked to NWA in over a week. No SLI, which apparently neither side is budging on, No deal.

What stops management from simply imposing a merger?

It was surprising to hear Delta management say that this merger did not meet their principles because it did not protect the seniority of Delta employees. A manager, principles, cool. That's part of the reason I like the team running DAL right now.

But hedge funds flat don't care about principles, or employees. Lee Moak and his team did an outstanding job getting us to the table. However, now that pilots have demonstrated that we are incapable of doing business we might just get kicked back to the job we were hired to do - fly the airplanes.

 

[General Lee]

Unless you grow, A LOT, you'll be stagnating for the next 13 years as you have hardly any retirements kicking in until 2020. By that time NWA will roll 1/2 it's list.

Schwanker

What again is your replacement for all of your DC9s? E190s? Will it pay less? So, your replacement for 1/4 to 1/3 of your fleet will be smaller planes. Sounds like a lot to be gained. We are growing at a large rate, and more 777LRs (needing more Captains) will arrive. A lot of the flights have 2 Captains and 2 FOs. There is your growth. We also plan to get more MD90s to fill in the West Coast flying currently done by unprofitable RJs. Again, more growth. You are staring at DC9s and 742s, wondering when and where they will go. Eventually they will, and high oil prices will make it sooner. How did the first 787 flight go? Wait, when will that be?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

The DL relative seniority deal on the table will have many of us stagnating for years in our bases unless we're willing to commute to the DC-9. At $125/hr it's not much more than my beaten down rate is now. I don't want any part of it.

Hmmm, I'm looking around, and I can't seem to find a DAL rate for 100 seaters.

Oh, that's right, it's ZERO, because you gave all your 100 seat flying away. I seem to recall that DAL took win, place and show at the great flying give-a-way that they started in 1993.

Scoff all you want, but every "old, tired" DC-9 at NWA means a bunch of guys hired, and a bunch of guys holding captain. No matter how many VORs you have to tune, having guys on our property is a hell of a lot better than giving it away to ASA or Skywest.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

What stops management from simply imposing a merger?

It was surprising to hear Delta management say that this merger did not meet their principles because it did not protect the seniority of Delta employees. A manager, principles, cool. That's part of the reason I like the team running DAL right now.

But hedge funds flat don't care about principles, or employees. Lee Moak and his team did an outstanding job getting us to the table. However, now that pilots have demonstrated that we are incapable of doing business we might just get kicked back to the job we were hired to do - fly the airplanes.

Fins,

Anderson would be called a hypocrite to be mad at us for squabbling at seniority integration. He and Steenland almost stopped merger talks themselves when they argued about who would be running the show. We have the same deal here. The difference is Steenland, unlike the greenbook merger committee chairman, could see the value of a good merger. Anderson did not back down, and neither will we. The NWA pilots cannot spell "fair." Did the arbitrator with USAir and AWA give the USAir guys credit for all of their "experience?" Nope.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

Hmmm, I'm looking around, and I can't seem to find a DAL rate for 100 seaters.

Oh, that's right, it's ZERO, because you gave all your 100 seat flying away. I seem to recall that DAL took win, place and show at the great flying give-a-way that they started in 1993.

Scoff all you want, but every "old, tired" DC-9 at NWA means a bunch of guys hired, and a bunch of guys holding captain. No matter how many VORs you have to tune, having guys on our property is a hell of a lot better than giving it away to ASA or Skywest.

Nu

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!:beer:

 

[~~~^~~~]

NuGuy:

Your DC-9 replacements are configured just like Delta's.

DAL's 100 seat rate is a minimum of:
$126.34 to $138 on the 737-200, 700 - CA
$106.40 to 115.90 on the E Jet - CA
$49.61 to $94.69 on the 737-200, 700 - FO
$49.61 to $79.16 on the E Jet - FO

Compare this to NWA's DC-9 rate
$30 to $85 FO
$115 to $126 CA

We have 10 737-700's coming (growth, starting this fall for Central America) and 25 orders. How about you? Seems like Steenland said 72 larger RJ's. Delta Connection is actually reducing block hours flown this year.

Superpilot - Winner? Don't you need to be studying the DFGS, VNAV and FMC? Oh yeah, nevermind.

 

[Sedona16]

Hmmm, I'm looking around, and I can't seem to find a DAL rate for 100 seaters.

Oh, that's right, it's ZERO, because you gave all your 100 seat flying away. I seem to recall that DAL took win, place and show at the great flying give-a-way that they started in 1993.

Scoff all you want, but every "old, tired" DC-9 at NWA means a bunch of guys hired, and a bunch of guys holding captain. No matter how many VORs you have to tune, having guys on our property is a hell of a lot better than giving it away to ASA or Skywest.

Nu

Yes there most certainly are rates for this size/class of airplane. Just because its not published on airlinepilotcentral doesnt mean it does not exist.

 

[General Lee]

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!:beer:

We have E190 rates, E195 rates, and CR9 rates for mainline(anything over 76 seats for that CR9 has to be mainline).

BTW, have you studied how to read SID/STARs again? Coming off the E145 and going to the DC9 will be a rude awakening. Review looking at maps and reading those SID/STARs. No more magic box.


Bye Bye--General Lee