DALPA Rep Says no go to merger....

[B737 Guy]

Atlanta is really nice, lucky you. HAHA:laugh:

You sir, are an ass!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

AF bought KLM a couple of years ago. They most recently just bought Alitalia.

That's one of the reasons for this merger, AF's CEO said it would be much better for AF if they merged.

cliff
YIP

PS-I'll be MORE surprised if the merger isn't done. I'll be less surprised if it is done without the pilots and they'll end up in arbitration. I think they will reach an agreement and then they'll merge.

 

[Muskycat]

Who gives a rats ass how many isles are in the back of the thing...pay rates is what it is all about as well as it is a sinlge catagorey at DAL.

Perhaps for you I could just put it this way for you - "DAL has three times the number of big shinny jets when compared to NWAs big shinney ones"

You're close Jester but it's actually 4 times.

NWA has 60 wide bodies times 3 =
180.

We have 245 aircraft last count that pay wide body rates. That would be 4 times the aircraft at wide body rates.
Not to mention the 777-LR's that are coming on board this year and next, along with the 757 ER's we gained.
In the mean time NWA is building compass.

KILL IT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[EdTeachLives!]

You're close Jester but it's actually 4 times.

NWA has 60 wide bodies times 3 =
180.

We have 245 aircraft last count that pay wide body rates. That would be 4 times the aircraft at wide body rates.
Not to mention the 777-LR's that are coming on board this year and next, along with the 757 ER's we gained.
In the mean time NWA is building compass.

KILL IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not worry. The word out of the most recently held LEC meeting has this deal as officially coded and pronouced dead. It was approached with the reasonable man theory. It did not succeed.

Part of the blame can be laid at the feet of the DALPA for having bad or no intel on the group they were dealing with. Perhaps their approach in negotiating with them was thus destined for failure.

The other portion of blame can be attributed to the NWALPA for being largely unprepared for the talks and then tossing out an outrageous opener to position themselves for an aribitration. I guess if that is all you know how to do after 20 years...then do it. Again, back to DALPA's intel failure.

Ed

 

[FDJ2]

Part of the blame can be laid at the feet of the DALPA for having bad or no intel on the group they were dealing with.
Ed

DALPA created the opportunity and created the the prerequisite that for any merger to succeed pilots must play a role from the inception and our issues must be dealt with up front.

It takes a different approach, unfortunately not everyone involved in the process got it. NWALPA brought a one trick poney to the SLI negotiations and then scratched their heads and wondered why the results weren't different this time.

DALPA opened with a fair integration methodolgy for all, with the intention of avoiding the quibbling and posturing that predictably leads to arbitration. The one trick pony committee did what they have consistently done for 2 decades. They postured for the best deal imagineable. The end result was predictable but regrettable. At least we tried.

 

[jetflier]

" It ain't over till the fat lady sings "

The DAL/NWA merger will happen if the executives want it to happen.

If the pilot groups do not have a deal at that time, then there would be prolonged negotiations.

I do not believe that the investment bankers or executives would allow the pilot employee group to dictate how the airline is run.

I do not believe that the executives and investment bankers will cancel the merger because of the pilots inability to reach a deal.

 

[Fly4hire]

NWALPA brought a one trick poney to the SLI negotiations and then scratched their heads and wondered why the results weren't different this time.

DALPA opened with a fair integration methodolgy for all, with the intention of avoiding the quibbling and posturing that predictably leads to arbitration. The one trick pony committee did what they have consistently done for 2 decades. They postured for the best deal imagineable. The end result was predictable but regrettable. At least we tried.

Funny, what we are hearing is almost diametrically opposed to what you are hearing. (and I don't think anyone here really has the straight skinny)

It is rumored that the DALPA SLI proposal was a single take it or leave it offer from which they never moved (which is not a negotiation).

The contractual portion was nice, yet the most accommodating MEC in recent NWA history saw to unanimously reject your SLI. Hmmmm.

Doesn't add up.

 

[spinproof]

A pox on both your houses. .......

 

[~~~^~~~]

It is rumored that the DALPA SLI proposal was a single take it or leave it offer from which they never moved (which is not a negotiation).

Doesn't add up.

Yes, it does add up because this was business, not section 6 negotiations.

FDJ2 explains it well:

DALPA created the opportunity and created the the prerequisite that for any merger to succeed pilots must play a role from the inception and our issues must be dealt with up front.

It takes a different approach, unfortunately not everyone involved in the process got it. NWALPA brought a one trick poney to the SLI negotiations and then scratched their heads and wondered why the results weren't different this time.​

Again, this was an offer. Your Representatives communicated a refusal of that offer. Offers are considered withdrawn if not accepted.

If the offeree rejects the offer, the offer has been destroyed and cannot be accepted at a future time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offer_and_acceptance

Mr. Anderson has said repeatedly that Delta will not enter a deal which does not protect the seniority of Delta's employees.

An offer was made and while there might have been some tiny amount of wiggle room, you were to recieve something for something. A better contract and a fair seniority list integration at a better company for your agreement to transition peacefully and productively.

On several levels the response to the offer was more than a simple refusal, it was an attack against the basic principle of what the agreement sought to achieve - labor peace resulting in greater productivity than has been the case in earlier mergers.

Delta's culture is intolerant of bad attitudes. Maybe it was a cultural thing? For whatever reason, they walked. My bleacher seat evaluation is simply a best guess with all the known facts.

 

[EdTeachLives!]

Could not have been explained better.

Ed

 

[Redmeat]

Mr. Anderson has said repeatedly that Delta will not enter a deal which does not protect the seniority of Delta's employees.

.

And Mr. Bush says repeatedly that there is no recession.

It's called rhetoric. A very common phenomenon among high ranking officials in business or government.

 

[Occam's Razor]

The word out of the most recently held LEC meeting has this deal as officially coded and pronouced dead.

I read on this very forum that your leadership was reasonable and accurate.

Scratch "accurate".

Up next - "reasonable"

 

[Diesel-9]

Lots of Kool-Aide on the table and they are drinking it.

 

[FDJ2]

It is rumored that the DALPA SLI proposal was a single take it or leave it offer from which they never moved (which is not a negotiation).

It wasn't an opening proposal in the traditional sense. I've characterized our as an opener at the 48 yard line that moved to the 50. Not much wiggle room and that was intentional. No time to quibble.

The NWA merger committee had a different approach, one geared towards posturing for arbitration. Was any one really surprised by that.

I've consistently stated that there was very little wiggle room in our position, others here on FI have retorted well you move some and then we'll move some, that's how we get it done.

Wrong. That posturing approach from the beginning, in order to get the best deal we can get, led to the ultimate outcome.

We all have a rare opportunity and it has potentially been squandered.

So we each go our own way, at least for the time being.

 

[FDJ2]

Nevermind. It's been said before, no need to beat a dead horse.l