Dalalpa Possibly To Sell Out Scope Clause!!

[ACL65PILOT]

Fin;
Correct from our perspective, but I what I was and am stating is this. DAL would not let it fly. SKW would not let it fly. These regionals fly for too many people. How would they deal with that? The day you hire on they tell you which seniority list you are on. Lots of issues there.
With ASA and CMR that is a different beast, and could quite be a possibility, except for that nagging issue. SKW owns ASA, and they have a very long and solid contract in place with DAL. I cannot see SKW or Republic divesting in other contracts so that they could sign on with one major. That could change but in the current state of the industry that is way too much of a gamble. Ergo, SKW bought ASA to insulate them selves from UAL's woes.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Bravo FIN. I think that you should volunteer for our LEC and MEC. What do ya think?
Remember we are ALPA.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Absolutely agree with the above. You can bet that it would get a BIG NO vote from NWA if that was to happen. We just got a MEC letter last night that clearly laid out the stance of our MEC and i have full confidence that this wouldnt fly.

What a joke. They are so mad and strong they are going to hold a meeting with (DRUM ROLL PLEASE)

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Themselves! Whoa!

Take a DAL MEC press release from 18 months ago, change the dates and you have a current NWA MEC release. The only difference is during those 18 months the DAL MEC was busy building bridges to powerful allies. Not that I underestimate the ability of the NWA MEC to dynamite bridges.

(BTW, not my joke, but worth repeating)

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Or It could just be a set up to . We tried and tried, but with our lousy scope that we had to take on in Ch11, we had to agree to this deal. If we do not go along with this we will be left in the cold.

Oh wait we are talking about NWA not us.

 

[Superpilot92]

Fins,Neither you nor i know exactly what is going to happen. You can sit here and pretend you know what will and will not happen but bottom line is you and i dont know.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If you say so. I will not take that bait Superpilot.
Contrary to what you think there are a few peeps on this board that know a ton. More than just Occam.
If you look noting is being said by those who are on here and some are just not here. Simply put, we can't.....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Bravo FIN. I think that you should volunteer for our LEC and MEC. What do ya think?
Remember we are ALPA.

ACL: On another thread a letter was posted from a former ALPA EVP, supporting US APA.

It saddened me to read his thoughts, where he eloquently made my case for scope and one list, forty years ago.

I thought his letter was compelling. Perhaps we are better off in independent unions if ALPA national serves only as a restraint on our bargaining. By promoting the outsourcing of alter ego operations ALPA has created a fiduciary obligation to those who would form an RJDC, or the NWDC, as the case may soon be.

This dis-unity results in conflicting alliances that can be fixed by going the high road with unity and one list, or going down the freeway of negotiating contracts that exchange what management wants to benefit the select few at the top.

We've sold so much that I wonder what is left to sell.

Obviously, my political compass lacks the qualities needed for anything other than service on the committee level.

 

[Superpilot92]

If you say so. I will not take that bait Superpilot.
Contrary to what you think there are a few peeps on this board that know a ton. More than just Occam.
If you look noting is being said by those who are on here and some are just not here. Simply put, we can't.....

i know but discussing rumors is pointless to an extent. There may be some truth to some of the rumors which is the only reason why these forums and discussions are worth anything. If you can sift through the majority of the shat you can sometimes find the little nuggets of information that were worth the search.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

then what is the article talking about? So your saying DALALPA isnt going to sell out their junior pilots job protection by relaxing scope just so they can get a little more money? I hope thats not the case.

The senior have already sold out the junior without even having the majority vote. AGE 65.

The senior will sell out the junior with or without the majority everyday of the week. It has already happened time and time again.

Age 65
B Scale
Scope
Pay scales post 911
John Prater
Please add those you can think of

The selfish seniors have not left a legacy but a pathetic path of destruction.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Superpilot:

You and I are pilots. We plan for all sorts of things that are unlikely to happen, like engine failures, fires, security threats.... I've always enjoyed taking the parts and seeing what else can be built with them. (you should have seen my Monster Garage growing up, we literally had a flying lawnmower and another one that operated by mechanical remote control - ~80% of the lawn could be mowed without human intervention).

The FlightInfo hobby is an extrapolation of that same effort. Take the parts that you know, use occam's razor to figure out the most logical trajectory and launch it out there to get other folks' ideas.

You just don't like it when you are confronted with a fact (like probationary pilots not getting a vote) that does not fit your version of the rumor mill.

However, that is the point of intelligent debate. To figure out what works and what needs improvement. I think most of your Kum Ba Yah posts are a waste of space, but my unity and one list quest has certainly wasted even more bits on some server somewhere.

 

[Noserider76]

What a joke. They are so mad and strong they are going to hold a meeting with (DRUM ROLL PLEASE)

I have agreed with your one list idea for sometime and if there we're ever a time to do it, it's now. I'm also realistic and if it's not achievable I don't see how we can remain in the same organization as the small jet groups. If it can't be brought together, there is just to much conflict of interest.

On your above quote, I wouldn't be too quick to discount the NWA pilot group. They were successful at attaining 150% pay over 80 last year and have a long history of not being afraid to play hardball with management. They can/will make any deal that screws them that badly, untenable for the new entity. We need to be very careful about what we agree to here, our jobs may depend on it. We're all so quick to say "there's nothing we can do about it", but we're the ones who control the parking brake.

 

[737 Pylt]

The senior have already sold out the junior without even having the majority vote. AGE 65.

The senior will sell out the junior with or without the majority everyday of the week. It has already happened time and time again.

Age 65
B Scale
Scope
Pay scales post 911
John Prater
Please add those you can think of

That about sums it up!
I guess you can probably add the "I've got mine" crowd, but that would go hand in hand with the senior people screwing the junior people!
737

 

[~~~^~~~]

First, let me take issue with the name for this thread. If NWA's scope was written properly, the DAL MEC could not sell it out.

Second, I see no indication in any of the articles that scope is being changed other than to allow NWA to operate during a transition period. We are all way too quick to jump to assumptions when in fact, the DAL MEC is most likely approaching this rationally and prepared as has been their previous record on this deal. We are just in a news blackout from our own union to keep the committee's on task instead of distracting them with friendly fire actions on their rear flanks.

Noserider: You are right. I do not discount the ability of the NWA MEC, or their pilots. I was repeating a joke.

It is interesting that you make this point, because others have been voicing the same concern on the other side. With $110 for 55 gallons of unrefined crude, your point is well understood.

I'm not building a hole in the ground with stores of canned food, but many are of that mindset.

The point you raised is my largest uncertainty about these negotiations.

 

[Superpilot92]

On your above quote, I wouldn't be too quick to discount the NWA pilot group. They were successful at attaining 150% pay over 80 last year and have a long history of not being afraid to play hardball with management. They can/will make any deal that screws them that badly, untenable for the new entity. We need to be very careful about what we agree to here, our jobs may depend on it. We're all so quick to say "there's nothing we can do about it", but we're the ones who control the parking brake.

Thats what i was getting at, a lot of people seem to think the NWA MEC will just sit back and get steamrolled, nothing is further from the truth.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

First, let me take issue with the name for this thread. If NWA's scope was written properly, the DAL MEC could not sell it out.

Second, I see no indication in any of the articles that scope is being changed other than to allow NWA to operate during a transition period. We are all way too quick to jump to assumptions when in fact, the DAL MEC is most likely approaching this rationally and prepared as has been their previous record on this deal. We are just in a news blackout from our own union to keep the committee's on task instead of distracting them with friendly fire actions on their rear flanks.

Noserider: You are right. I do not discount the ability of the NWA MEC, or their pilots. I was repeating a joke.

It is interesting that you make this point, because others have been voicing the same concern on the other side. With $110 for 55 gallons of unrefined crude, your point is well understood.

I'm not building a hole in the ground with stores of canned food, but many are of that mindset.

The point you raised is my largest uncertainty about these negotiations.

Sorry, not to 'knit-pick' but there's 42 gallons in a barrel of crude; but you were correct on the price, its still about $110.00 (give or take a buck or two).

Now folks, back to your 'regularily scheduled DAL/NWA rant' (or is that the NWA/DAL rant).

For what its worth.

DA

 

[Superpilot92]

Superpilot:



The FlightInfo hobby is an extrapolation of that same effort. Take the parts that you know, use occam's razor to figure out the most logical trajectory and launch it out there to get other folks' ideas.

You just don't like it when you are confronted with a fact (like probationary pilots not getting a vote) that does not fit your version of the rumor mill. I Never said that was even a concern of mine. Lets not forget you may not vote either.

However, that is the point of intelligent debate. To figure out what works and what needs improvement. I think most of your Kum Ba Yah posts are a waste of space, but my unity and one list quest has certainly wasted even more bits on some server somewhere.

Your idea of 1 list involving the regionals also is along the same lines as my "kum ba yah" posts. I simply try and post how i believe things should be. Unions in general have done a very poor job in this industry of uniting everyone and i feel that should be changed. Call it "Kum ba Yah" if you like but i dont think you disagree.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Unions in general have done a very poor job in this industry of uniting everyone

Exactly.....so why do we continue to support an organization that fails to even admit that it has failed.....yet alone even try to fix it.....

 

[PuffDriver]

Exactly.....so why do we continue to support an organization that fails to even admit that it has failed.....yet alone even try to fix it.....

Because changing it to YOUR version of right is even more wrong.


Edit for misspelling.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Because changing it to YOUR version of right is even more wrong.


Edit for misspelling.

True brand scope, transportability of seniority, and contract minimums are wrong? No wonder ALPA is failing......Continue the foodfight while I go get some more popcorn......

 

[737 Pylt]

True brand scope, transportability of seniority, and contract minimums are wrong? No wonder ALPA is failing......Continue the foodfight while I go get some more popcorn......

Make sure you steal some notes and continue your childish tirade about alpa, and how wonderful your bj girls at the rjdc are.
I'll go get some popcorn too!

737