DAL pilot

[fanman]

Gentlemen, I feel I have a right to comment on this situation more than anyone. As a furloughed DAL pilot, and also, a former Comair pilot who walked the picket line while employed by Comair, I am incensed by the Comair MEC's attitude. I helped get the contract that they now enjoy, by "hitting the bricks", and the decision by the MEC to not allow me to work at my former workplace, is a total slap in the face. This will not be forgotten by me, and over a thousand other DAL pilots now on furlough. I hope I dont run into any Comair pilots at hotels while working at my charter job, because I would most likely want to discuss your MEC's stance.

 

[avratdwc]

DAL Pilot, I am going to assume that you tried to go back to Comair however you are being denied the opportunity to go back to them. I am not with the airlines and am trying to get the full scoop.

 

[CRJFlyer]

fanman,

I'm currently at comair, but wasn't around during the strike (too busy getting furloughed by my own airline at the time). I'm sorry to hear your current situation and at the same time don't have a full grasp as to what is going on between the two MEC's.. I have noticed that some people at Comair have a serious ego problem, while at the same time others are quite normal and good to hang out with. I like to consider myself part of the latter group.

I do wish that if I did run into you we could drink a beer rather than talk shop. And being 24 I really would rather talk about women and sports. But if you really want to talk I'll be downstairs in the hotel gym throwing up 360.

There is no sense in trying to pit one against the other. Both because I really don't care, I fly for fun, and there are much better things to talk about. (Like how can I become a bar owner and get mad ho's)

 

[DAL737FO]

"There is no sense in trying to pit one against the other. Both because I really don't care, I fly for fun, "

Spoken truly like someone that is 24 probably single and has a lot of time to eventually realize that this is a career. Is flying enjoyable and fun....you bet, but make no mistake about it this is a job. Statements like this would lead me to believe that if someone called you on your off day and said "Hey I've got aircraft XYZ out here could you do me a favor and fly it for me" You would probably say sure I'll do it for free because it is fun. While down the street a full time contract pilot is trying to make ends meet. I've seen it before at almost every FBO.

I have a lot of friends at Comair. Most are former Army pilots that went there to build time and move on to a major. Most are retired so they have some money already coming in and are a little older than your normal new hire. What started out as a stepping stone for them now, they believe, has become their final stop. So their attitudes changed from getting the time and getting gone to let's get as much as we can get now since by the time the majors hire again I'll be too old. Probably true. They don't support what the Comair MEC did but they don't really care about the future ramifications either. So who pays in the long run? The young guys at Comair. A resolution was just passed at mainline Delta Alpa to give preferential hiring to ASA pilots when we start again. It will happen, just look at the history of the airlines. Fanman is right in the fact that we will not forget.

Good luck to all,

GII/GIII FO
former a DAL737FO

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Fanman,

Let me guess. Now that you are a Delta Pilot, you fell Comair pilots have nothing to complain about and Delta scope, as it applies to Comair pilots, is perfectly ok with you. Oh ya, and you always felt this way.

Am I wrong?

 

[CRJFlyer]

I do agree that I do speak like a typical 24 yr. old...which I am, and I do understand it is a job, I am single(in part due to this job), but under no circumstances would I fly at Comair for free (people flying for free is why I make 18K a year and cannot pay my bills). But if someone is going to have an attitude towards me because of which company I fly for then I really do have no time for them.

Its ok if fanman doesn't want to forget, thats fine by me, but if he or anybody wants to argue with me about who I fly for and how I'm screwing them, I don't really have time for it..But if he wants to act normal and maybe make a new friend then thats fine...

Being young I'm just realizing how dull and single minded alot of pilots are...So many have exactly zero interests in anything else besides their jobs. Which is fine for them, just don't expect to see me in a hotel and having a discussion (or confrontation) about why my MEC is a big fat jerk.


I respect your viewpoints and understand its rough being furloughed, because I've been there, I've worked at Staples because nobody else wanted to hire a pilot, my credit cards are maxed out and I have bills out the ying yang, so if i were at the brink of losing my job I'd be flippin out again too. But Delta owns Comair and thats the bottom line. We're getting alot of new routes because of your reductions, but thats the whole management system at work. The big cheese up top doesn't really care about how he gets his buck as long as he gets it.
At the same time I can see why a HR team wouldn't want to hire ANYONE who wasn't willing to give up their seniority at another company knowing full well they'd leave givin the opportunity. It makes for bad business.

And what about those same guys working at the FBO wanting a job. Is it fair for them not to get their first job because theres no room for them. And the reason for them not getting a job is because a mainline guy went to a job he really didn't want to be at in the firstplace..that to me is no different than me flying a 172 for somebody.

Either way you look at it we're pretty much just pawns and management has full control of what we do...

 

[redsoxfan]

I am a Comair pilot and support the idea of hiring DAL pilots furloughs 150%. I am not sure if this is a Comair pilot MEC decision representating all comair pilots not wanting to hire DAL furloughs or if its a Comiar management decision for not wanting to hire DAL furloughs? And if this is a Comair pilot MEC decsion, i dont remember ever voting on whether or not to hire DAL furloughs, becuase if the Comair pilots voted on it , i would think it would pass in favor for hiring DAL furloughs. I have been furloughed twice so far in my career and know what it is like. I hope to see all DAL furloughs who want to come to Comair, ASA asap.

 

[avratdwc]

CRJ,

As far as being another young guy like you I honestly have to say that I agree with what you say. I would also not give anyone the time of day if I got stopped in a bar after a long day and got lectured on who I work for and how I am screwing everyone. Let me please say this. My personal feeling, and correct me if I am wrong, when someone has put alot of time, effort, and money into there dreams they will only look at the glory of finally getting to that "big jet" when an HR rep says "Hey wanna fly a XXX for us and make gobs more money etc", that person at the point in time will not be thinking about the bad sides of it. A guy I fly corp. with told me that there is no more stability in the airlines now a days than corp. and thats true. However if you get a bad hand of cards please dont take it out on someone that is just trying to pay the bills. I am going to imagine that alot of the unfortunates out there where in the same shoes at one point. Eventhough it is off the subject I am curious to hear from a pilot that was at the bottom of the list at COEX and got burned because mainline pilots came back. Like I said guys and gals, I may be talking pure Bu@&sh*t here but they are just my opinions and I dont mean to offend anyone. CYA

 

[DAL737FO]

Redsoxfan,

You're right you didn't get to vote on the decision. The Delta MEC went to the Comair MEC and asked for preferential hiring for Delta furloughee's. Lawson wanted some restrictions on scope lifted and it went down hill from there. The question was fairly simple, you give our guys preferential hiring now and later when we start hiring again we give your guys preferential hiring. For those that say yeah right, a resolution just passed for exactly that to happen for ASA pilots when this is all over. I guess there really isn't anything we can do about it now. I've been fortunate, I found a job flying pretty quickly in the grand scheme of things. I also got another type rating paid for (G1159). I just feel bad for the guys still looking and one more opportunity was just taken away.

GII/GIII FO
furloughed DAL pilot

 

[FlyingDawg]

Any truth to the rumor that DAL MEC told the Comair MEC that military buddies would still be favored over ASA/Comair if Comair MEC took the deal? If thats the case then preferential hiring isn't really preferential.

 

[PCL_128]

Any truth to the rumor that DAL MEC told the Comair MEC that military buddies would still be favored over ASA/Comair if Comair MEC took the deal? If thats the case then preferential hiring isn't really preferential.

The DAL MEC simply stated that they could not agree that ALL pilots would come from DCI carriers. He wanted to have provisions that would allow military pilots and pilots from other national carriers to get hired at Delta without having to go to Comair or ASA first. This problem could easily be fixed with some sort of hiring ratio set up in the flow-through or pref hiring agreement. Say 5 DCI pilots get the job for every non-DCI pilot. (Just a random number, not sure what the MEC would consider fair.) I don't see why that should be a deal breaker. Delta has a long tradition of hiring military pilots and they aren't going to stop with a pref hiring agreement just because the CMR MEC wants it that way. You have to give a little guys.

 

[NYRANGERS]

CRJ,

As far as being another young guy like you I honestly have to say that I agree with what you say. I would also not give anyone the time of day if I got stopped in a bar after a long day and got lectured on who I work for and how I am screwing everyone. Let me please say this. My personal feeling, and correct me if I am wrong, when someone has put alot of time, effort, and money into there dreams they will only look at the glory of finally getting to that "big jet" when an HR rep says "Hey wanna fly a XXX for us and make gobs more money etc", that person at the point in time will not be thinking about the bad sides of it. A guy I fly corp. with told me that there is no more stability in the airlines now a days than corp. and thats true. However if you get a bad hand of cards please dont take it out on someone that is just trying to pay the bills. I am going to imagine that alot of the unfortunates out there where in the same shoes at one point. Eventhough it is off the subject I am curious to hear from a pilot that was at the bottom of the list at COEX and got burned because mainline pilots came back. Like I said guys and gals, I may be talking pure Bu@&sh*t here but they are just my opinions and I dont mean to offend anyone. CYA

Like you and Crjflyer, I am not "old" I am 29 and was hired by Delta at age 27. It just is a little upsetting to see the "new" generation of pilots strive to stop at a regional.

I don't know too many baseball players who said "I just want to make it to the AAA league"

Or the doctor who said "I just want to be an intern for the rest of my career"

For everyone but these two "young" guys, please don't take this as a slam on the regionals. All I am saying is that there is a new realm of guys saying "I have no intention of leaving my regional" or " I never wanted to go to a major" and I wonder where this new way of thinking came from. When I dreamed about flying as a kid, all I ever wanted to do was fly big airplanes around the world. I guess the pilots who do want to go to a major will never have to worry about you guys.

By the way Crjflyer, I can put up 395 at the old age of 29

 

[PositiveRate]

I'm one of the "young guys" on the line at Comair who will supposedly suffer in the future. I didn't vote or have a say in any of this...are you that blinded that you honestly believe we all back what happened. In fact, myself and presumably a large majority on both sides had no idea that this "meeting" even took place until people started b^tching about it here. The guys like CRJflyer and redsoxfan represent the "unrepresented" voice at our company. So...you can "buy" what's real or what's spun. Regardless, this is all just political spin and an excellent example of how the "loud" few can manipulate a situation to make fire out of a spark.

When this incredible dust cloud settles in the next few years, it will be my personal choice whether or not to move on to a major and my responsibility to apply and prepare myself accordingly. It will be my hard work, determination, wit and persistance that will get me to the next step...not so much what company I worked for.

 

[PositiveRate]

NYRANGERS - good post. I'm glad that people are seeing that there is a whole other group out there that wants very much to move on to the majors and has very little "voice" at the moment.

Hmm. 175 at the max for me...oh well.

 

[100LL... Again!]

From PCL:
-------------------
Say 5 DCI pilots get the job for every non-DCI pilot. (Just a random number, not sure what the MEC would consider fair.) I don't see why that should be a deal breaker.
-------------------

Something must be wrong with me! I'm agreeing with this guy.
Must be something in the water.


5 out of 6 sounds fair to me also.

The best agreement is one where EVERYONE feels that they got hosed.

"I don't care if I lose - as long as they don't win."

 

[General Lee]

Avratdwc,

Sure there are a lot of "unfortunates" out there, but Delta owns Comair and ASA, and ASA is allowing Delta guys to go there without giving up their senority. Obviously Delta wasn't mad about that and allowed it to happen. What is Comair's excuse? Ummmmm, it would cost too much...(to Comair and not ASA??) There really is no excuse. Sure, there are some scope problems with Delta Alpa and Comair---but if I remember right we just gave in and bumped up the percentages from 36% to 44% of our flying---which is HUGE. That was probably 300 free upgrades on the RJ. I know that you guys are profitable right now and that helps, but you are not as restricted anymore. I know you said you were a young guy and might not care as much as other people. Wait until you are in your mid thirties, have two kids and a wife, a house near CVG--and it's time for more. A second year Delta pilot makes more than a 12 year Comair Capt (unless he is furloughed). That will not change, ever. And the COEX problem is different than the Delta Comair one. The bottom guys at COEX probably went to COEX at the time ( pre-9-11) because there was a Flow-up to CAL. They knew there was a chance of a flow back. There is no chance any Comair guy will get bumped from their spot----the Delta furloughs would go to the BOTTOM. There is no excuse. And now the ASA guys will get some sort of preferential hiring---along with military guys. Hey, I flew for a regional, and half of my class at Delta was military. That seems fair.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CRJFlyer]

Ahh.. a fellow lifter, thats good to hear...but I wasn't talking about squatting...haha j/j

With all due respect to everyone, Delta or not, I'm all for hiring anybody, and I definitely didn't get to put in a vote as to whether or not Comair hires DAL... If it came down to a vote i would definitely vote to have DAL pilots come onto Comair, and so would everyone else I've talked to(as long as they would be atleast somewhat happy to be here and not condescending, I haven't witnessed it but I heard that alot of the Midway guys were that way when they first got here)....the more on the seniority list the better...But then I think you have some of the old grumpies over at Comair that for some reason or another want to screw Delta, and they are the ones with the vote I guess...

I'm not sure if its a new generation, but I'm pretty sure back in the day the regionals didn't have the equipment they do now..I loved the 1900 but don't think I could have spent more than a few more years in it. Maybe that is why more people are staying at the regional level now than before...that and the majors haven't hired in over a year and a half..

 

[NYRANGERS]

Ahh.. a fellow lifter, thats good to hear...but I wasn't talking about squatting...haha j/j

Good comeback. LOL

With all due respect to everyone, Delta or not, I'm all for hiring anybody, and I definitely didn't get to put in a vote as to whether or not Comair hires DAL... If it came down to a vote i would definitely vote to have DAL pilots come onto Comair, and so would everyone else I've talked to(as long as they would be atleast somewhat happy to be here and not condescending, I haven't witnessed it but I heard that alot of the Midway guys were that way when they first got here)....the more on the seniority list the better...But then I think you have some of the old grumpies over at Comair that for some reason or another want to screw Delta, and they are the ones with the vote I guess...

I'm not sure if its a new generation, but I'm pretty sure back in the day the regionals didn't have the equipment they do now..I loved the 1900 but don't think I could have spent more than a few more years in it. Maybe that is why more people are staying at the regional level now than before...that and the majors haven't hired in over a year and a half..

I don't think any Dal guy would be anthing but grateful to be able to fly for an outfit like comair, otherwise I hope they would not try to go there.

I know what you mean about guys talking **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** to eachother, and it has to stop. The job we all do is no different, we just work for different companys. I must say I have quite a few friends at comair that I would love to see at Delta, but with what is going on I see a problem arising for comair guys when we hire.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I was reading my previous posts and see I may not have correctly clarified myself earlier....

DAL737FO
" I don't care" ....was supposed to mean..."the topic is all I hear being talked about and since we at Comair didn't get a vote, or didn't even know the vote was taking place, or that any offer was even on the table I have trouble understanding why the hostility between pilots is exhisting when we should be aiming our focus towards the person or persons who actually sat at the table.


"I fly for fun" didn't mean I would do this job for free..it was supposed to mean that I want to enjoy my job, have a good time doing it, and like coming to work...Trust me I don't want to work, hate my job, retire at 60 and die at age 62...

In the end I wish for Delta pilots to come to Comair..heck maybe they could even get me up there one day with a recommendation...I also want to fly for for maybe not a major but fly a bigger plane atleast...if its for a major awesome, but if its for some upstart airline, that may be ok too...

NYRanger,
It is gonna be too bad if things between DAL and Comair remain this way...alot of good people will miss out, both us at Comair and even at Delta cause they may miss a chance to fly with some good guys...well, mostly me but, I'm trying to keep my head from getting stuck in the doorway...ha...well actually the FA's will miss the chance...oh that was a good one..I'll leave on that one..

 

[Broke in CVG]

If it had gone to a vote by the Comair pilots it would have passed with a higher percent than the last POS which is now our contract. Some times you have to take the high road and do what is right and in my opinion, our MEC failed to do that.

JC (the MEC) chairman is a pure politician through and through and I still believe that he thinks that DAL MEC will come back to negotiate something.... This is the same MEC that made me do the EMB and CRJ groundschools back to back for no other reason than to use it as a bargaining chip during negotiations.... and all for nothing.

Our MEC does their best for the Comair pilots, but I think that in this case what should have been a black and white issue was once again thought of as a bargaining chip.

To the DAL furloughees that wanted to come to Comair, my sincerest appologies... please direct your aggrevations to the correct place (not the pilot group that was unaware of the meeting until after the fact)

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY 41018
859-282-9016
FAX 859-283-5533