DAL/NWA SLI Hearings in a nutshell

[Superpilot92]

You are still not seeing it for what it is. That is fair. I do not expect you to.
Claiming a bump in seniority discounts that it is for career expectations and rationalizing the list based upon equipment at each pre merger carrier. Looking at it myopically works for your argument, and it will work for our rebuttal.

I am pretty sure about 5000 people likely disagree with you. I have no doubt that if you were on this side of the fence you would have a different train of thought. I know why your side likes this list, its pretty obvious.

Ours will likely show the same but in reverse. Negotiating 101 and both sides are playing extremes. Do you think its fair to staple 10% of the NWA list to the bottom? Does that show relative seniority? There are ways to protect against the "assumed what-ifs" in regards to the DC9s other than stapling. The stapling is only one of the inconsistencies of the relative % argument. There are many more problems throughout the entire list.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Super, of course I would have a different opinion if I were you. I would be hoping for a windfall, but in the back of my mind I would expect what the DAL list shows. The DC-9 has about the same number of positions that are at the bottom of our proposal. It makes sense. I would understand why it needed to be this way, not that I would be happy about it.
I would want relative in a straight ratio so that I to could benefit the same way the DAL new hires are. That is a windfall for you and everyone else flying the Diesel 9.
That is why it will not be that way.

 

[PuffDriver]

To bad its not within 2% across the board and its more like DAL pilots got anywhere from a 1-5% bump in seniority while NWA pilots took a hit of around that same amount. Also who is getting 40k a year pay bump other than the previous furlough guys?

The disconnect here is that seniority isnt for sale on the NWA side. The NWA mec has made that pretty clear. I am sure when our proposed list comes out you guys will see it just as bogus as we all see yours.

Nobody is saying seniority is for sale. That time has passed. NWA pilots are getting more compensation to bring them to parity with Delta pilots. Any reasonable party will see that and reward, aka "not punish", the Delta pilots via seniority. If we don't get the stovepipe, then it will be similar.

All NWA pilots get larger raises than Delta pilots. ALL NWA pilots benefit dramatically, read they won't furlough now, from the Delta staffing formula.

Your arguments were wrong then, and they are wrong now as well as outdated and behind the times.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Sounds quite familiar puff.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

OK,

The truth comes out. The uber-professional benevolant delta pilots real plan. Either we get what we want via capitulation or arbitration or we will use our sheer numbers to pull a eastie. Looking forward to working with such a honorable group. Can't wait until we ever actually have to stand up to the company as a unified group.

actually, what happend at USAir can't happen here unless the Delta pilots get screwed. We have the numbers to out vote you. So there is no way you could try to muscle in NWAPA to get DOH. We also already have a joint contract.

Frankly, I don't think the DALPA position goes far enough.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

And everyone though that we were going to lay down and take one for the team. Oops! Guess not.

 

[Superpilot92]

Super, of course I would have a different opinion if I were you. I would be hoping for a windfall, but in the back of my mind I would expect what the DAL list shows. The DC-9 has about the same number of positions that are at the bottom of our proposal. It makes sense. I would understand why it needed to be this way, not that I would be happy about it.
I would want relative in a straight ratio so that I to could benefit the same way the DAL new hires are. That is a windfall for you and everyone else flying the Diesel 9.
That is why it will not be that way.

Short term "what if" protection doesnt constitute stapling 10% of our list. That effects us for the rest of our careers not just while the DC9s are here. There are other means to protect against the what ifs involved with the dc9s. Fence them and protect the pre-merger DAL pilots throughout the remaining time the DC9s are flown. That gives the protection instead of a windfall career effecting seniority grab that is trying to be justified because of a short term "WHAT IF". The list is lopsided and that will come out in arbitration. This is exactly why a negotiated list couldn't be made. I have no doubt when our proposal is announced you guys will be complaining just as we are.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It is not a what if, it is fact that the DC-9 is the smallest large gauge airframe that DAL will have on property being flown by mainline pilots. Is this really that hard to conceptualize?

The what if is furloughs and that will be taken care of as well this way. A fence only deals with one side of the equation. This proposal deals with both issues. Read all of the transcripts. I know it is over 600 pages but the argument is succinct.

 

[Truckdriver]

I gain about 2.4% system seniority with the DALPA proposal. I have no idea what the arbitrators will do, but from reading the hearing transcripts, they made it clear that there is no fair way of doing this. I don't think they will be concerned about DOH, and gaining 2.4% system seniority if your relative position stays the same will not be a big deal to an arbitrator. Even if they do come back and I were to gain 0% system seniority, I'd still be integrated in with the 00 hires at NWA. Either way, NWA guys are going to have to realize that DOH means nothing here. The arbitrators know that and making DOH your starting position is a stupid move in my opinion.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well it makes the decision easy for the arbitrators.