DAL junior Pilots sold down the river by NEW MEC

[Deadend]

New MEC just signed off on scope relief to the company on the 76 seat overage of airplanes. They got us "Furlough" protection. We all know that it will not hold up. But we will NEVER get that scope back. Great job MEC

 

[GogglesPisano]

Agreed to allow the Company to shred the scope clause, because we would have won in arbitration anyway.

Unbelievable.

 

[mynameisjim]

when will our unions stop PERMANENTLY outsourcing our jobs for TEMPORARY gains?

 

[mynameisjim]

Typically, barring a negotiated settlement, grievances are eventually decided by binding
arbitration before a neutral third party, often at a point well into the future. While the
Association feels confident that our interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. is correct,
there always remain several elements of risk whenever an issue is decided through
arbitration.
After a number of face-to-face meetings and careful consideration, the parties reached a
Settlement Agreement which mitigates the litigation risks but more importantly confirms
the Association’s interpretation of the PWA and provides real and meaningful additional
furlough protection for hundreds of the most vulnerable pilots on our seniority list, very
similar to protections already available to more senior pilots.
The Settlement Agreement provides that:
•
The Company will agree to the Association’s interpretation of Section 1 B. 40.
d. and e. but provides a one-time exception to this interpretation allowing the
Company to operate up to 153 * 76-seat jets so long as the Company does not
furlough any pilot on the integrated system seniority list as of February 9, 2009,
the date the agreement was signed. With agreement on the interpretation of
Section 1 B. 40. d. and e, any further increase above 153 76-seat jets will
require substantial mainline fleet growth. For example, for the Company to add
a 154th 76-seat jet, the mainline would have to be comprised of 768 mainline
jets. Today the mainline fleet consists of 753 aircraft.
•
If the Company does furlough any pilot on the Integrated System Seniority List,
then the Company will physically remove six passenger seats from the number
of 76-seat jets (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares) that
exceeds the authorized number of 76-seat jets under the Association’s
interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e.
•
While the Company will have 90 days from the first furlough to physically
remove the seats, such seats will become immediately unusable for any purpose
upon the furlough of the very first pilot on the list.
It’s important to understand that the agreement is a settlement over an issue of scope
language interpretation and not an issue of “scope relief.” Scope language is intended to
protect pilot jobs. This agreement enhances job protections for Delta pilots. There has
been no change to the scope language in our contract, and this settlement will not
increase the number of regional jet hulls; it simply codifies the number of seats that will
be allowed in up to 26 of those aircraft. It allows up to a total of 156 seats throughout the
system (26 aircraft x 6 seats per airplane = 156) in exchange for furlough protections for
hundreds of Delta pilots and their families and definitive agreement on the contractual
language moving forward. Further, this agreement does not increase the ceiling on the
total number of 70-seat/76-seat jets permitted by Section 1 B. 40. That number remains
at 255, and with 153 76-seat jets, the total of 70/76-seat jets will be 224 while the overall
number of all regional jets has decreased substantially over the past year.
The presentation used to describe this Settlement Agreement to the MEC is available as a
PDF document on the Contract Administration Committee page of the Delta MEC
website (Public) to provide you with additional information on the
agreement.

 

[JohnDoe]

I just love the absolute BS "spin" the union had the gall to put out in their email:


"It’s important to understand that the agreement is a settlement over an issue of scope language [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]interpretation [/FONT]and [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]not [/FONT]an issue of "scope relief." Scope language is intended to protect pilot jobs. This agreement enhances job protections for Delta pilots. There has been no change to the scope language in our contract, and this settlement will [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]not [/FONT]increase the number of regional jet hulls; it simply codifies the number of seats that will be allowed in up to 26 of those aircraft."


The company was limited to a certain number of 76 seat jets. The union just allowed them to go over that amount by almost 30 additional 76-seat jets. That is scope relief pure and simple. They just allowed the potential parking of even more DC-9's. I don't care that the total number of RJ's did not increase. They are allowing more 76-seat jets to exist.

DAL/NWA alpa has proven once again that they are utterly incapable of preserving scope protections. The company says "boo" and they pee their pants. RA must be laughing his rear-end off.

Ask any of the roughly 2000 pilots at both DAL and NWA that were furloughed after 9-11 how that useless no-furlough clause worked out for them. Sure glad the union got an "improvement" in it in exchange for this.

 

[CitationLover]

hey junior DAL guys, check out the rim job us midwest pilots (ALL of us) will get if "silent" investor DAL starts using our gates and slots out of MKE with RJ's.

our MEC has REPEATEDLY warned DAL's only to be given the cold shoulder.

 

[ASA_DFW]

Oh WOW, I now have furlough protection. Big F'ing deal. My friend had furlough protection with the C2K contract. Ask him how it protected him for the 5 years he was furloughed. This "furlough protection" will be broken either in bankruptcy or another side letter. Good job MEC.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Same Sh!t, different Sh!tbags....

I'm almost physically sick.

 

[crj567]

That's what you get for merging with the crappiest major in existence.... Not a good break, champ!

 

[GogglesPisano]

That's what you get for merging with the crappiest major in existence.... Not a good break, champ!

Which one?

BTW, I can speak from experience: the absolute ********************tiest, most aggravating, hair-pulling, should-have-called-in-sick, what-the-********************-am-I-doing-this-for, the FA's-didn't-warm-my-nuts-enough, great-I-have-to-fly-with-ATL's-Golden-Girls-again, oh-great-another-SVO-48-hr-layover-wonderful-there's-a-passenger-next-to-my-crew-rest-seat-I-guess-it's-steak-again- worst day at a major is better than my ohh-goody-I-get-to-fly-the-newest-Barbie-jet-I-hope-there-are-only-5-MEL's-where-the-********************-am-I-going-to-get-something-to-eat-on-this-20-minute-turn-five-leg-day-they-screwed-me-out-of-3-hours-on-my-last-paycheck-where-am-I-going-to-get-something-to-eat-at-5am-God-some-of-the-FO's-I-fly-with-can't-even-land-or-speak-English-dinner-at-Applebee's-again-is-this-the-first-day-of-the-rest-of-my-life-another-night-at-the-Holiday-Inn-Airport-will-I-ever-fly-to-Europe-will-I-ever-get-to-a-major-why-don't-major-airline-pilots-say-hello-or-is-it-just-my-own-insecurity best day at a regional.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They did this so that they can further mask this when the 9's leave. In 2012 we will be told that attrition will take care of the drop in mainline aircraft.
Heck the bridge is burning down behind us and no one cares about what they see in the rear view mirror.

 

[crj567]

Which one?

BTW, I can speak from experience: the absolute ********************tiest, most aggravating, hair-pulling, should-have-called-in-sick, what-the-********************-am-I-doing-this-for, the FA's-didn't-warm-my-nuts-enough, great-I-have-to-fly-with-ATL's-Golden-Girls-again, oh-great-another-SVO-48-hr-layover-wonderful-there's-a-passenger-next-to-my-crew-rest-seat worst day at a major is better than my ohh-goody-I-get-to-fly-the-newest-Barbie-jet-I-hope-there-are-only-5-MEL's-where-the-********************-am-I-going-to-get-something-to-eat-on-this-20-minute-turn-five-leg-day-they-screwed-me-out-of-3-hours-on-my-last-paycheck-where-am-I-going-to-get-something-to-eat-at-5am-God-some-of-the-FO's-I-fly-with-can't-even-land-or-speak-English-dinner-at-Applebee's-again-another-night-at-the-Holiday-Inn-Airport-will-I-ever-get-to-a-major-why-don't-major-airline-pilots-say-hello-or-is-it-just-my-own-insecurity best day at a regional.

Tee Hee Hee...

I do love it when I strike a nerve!

-Settle down Francis.... Everyone already knows what a noob you are!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Tee Hee Hee...

I do love it when I strike a nerve!

-Settle down Francis.... Everyone already knows what a noob you are!

A noob with a better job than you could ever dream of, lifer.

PS: It really is that much better at mainline.:blush:

 

[Mr.B]

Which one?

BTW, I can speak from experience: the absolute ********************tiest, most aggravating, hair-pulling, should-have-called-in-sick, what-the-********************-am-I-doing-this-for, the FA's-didn't-warm-my-nuts-enough, great-I-have-to-fly-with-ATL's-Golden-Girls-again, oh-great-another-SVO-48-hr-layover-wonderful-there's-a-passenger-next-to-my-crew-rest-seat-I-guess-it's-steak-again- worst day at a major is better than my ohh-goody-I-get-to-fly-the-newest-Barbie-jet-I-hope-there-are-only-5-MEL's-where-the-********************-am-I-going-to-get-something-to-eat-on-this-20-minute-turn-five-leg-day-they-screwed-me-out-of-3-hours-on-my-last-paycheck-where-am-I-going-to-get-something-to-eat-at-5am-God-some-of-the-FO's-I-fly-with-can't-even-land-or-speak-English-dinner-at-Applebee's-again-is-this-the-first-day-of-the-rest-of-my-life-another-night-at-the-Holiday-Inn-Airport-will-I-ever-fly-to-Europe-will-I-ever-get-to-a-major-why-don't-major-airline-pilots-say-hello-or-is-it-just-my-own-insecurity best day at a regional.

Pretty funny.


Regretting leaving World yet? I know I am.

 

[Mr.B]

Ask any of the roughly 2000 pilots at both DAL and NWA that were furloughed after 9-11 how that useless no-furlough clause worked out for them. Sure glad the union got an "improvement" in it in exchange for this.[/quote]

And if thats not enough, ask 2172 furloughed United guy if their NO-FURLOUGH CLAUSE saved their jobs.

The MEC gave away scope to save their A-plans which went away anyhow. Sickening. History repeats itself....regardless of the airline....repeat......

 

[zman]

Whats even more sad is when you talk to pilots who fly these regional jets, they are even more excited that they are getting growth. But they dont realize that an the end they are destroying the very majors they want to work for. Actually can anyone on this board tell me of a furlough clause that actually has worked? I have looked over many airlines, many of them with similiar protections only to have it blown out of the water in court! Why cant a binding contract be upheld for major airline pilots? Do you guys truely believe its the fault of the unions or the courts? I think that if airlines could just be big holding companies they would given the chance. Outsource regional flying to XYZ airlines, then domestic to ABC airlines, and then codeshare via international with cheaper counterparts.

 

[whatitdoing?]

wow, this is shocking.

 

[regionalcap]

So instead of getting more flying at mainline, our MEC gives more large RJs to DCI. Truly amazing. I am just dumbfounded at the stupidity of our MEC.

 

[Superpilot92]

these clowns have just about lost all credibility and are teetering on a desertification push. IF ALPA ever wants to get its credit back it needs to start proving itself as a union not a business. This at least should be the tipping point for removing these people from making the decisions that effect all of our careers, mainline and regional alike.

pathetic

 

[Superpilot92]

So instead of getting more flying at mainline, our MEC gives more large RJs to DCI. Truly amazing. I am just dumbfounded at the stupidity of our MEC.

Yes please explain to me how the MEC grieves the company flying over the scope limits only to come out of the grievance allowing them to be further out of the scope language? WTFO

Absolute joke they are.:smash:

 

[GogglesPisano]

Regretting leaving World yet? .

Never.

 

[DYLIN]

Whats even more sad is when you talk to pilots who fly these regional jets, they are even more excited that they are getting growth. But they dont realize that an the end they are destroying the very majors they want to work for.

Some are like that, many are not.

Everyone where I work, and I do mean every last one that I have flown with so far, is disgusted with any expansion in vendor flying.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Problem is that OUR MEC thinks that DCI makes a lot of money and this allows better mainline contracts and rates.
I am so dumbfounded as to how they came to that, but that is what I have been told.
I have tried to wrap my arms around why we want DCI to grow. I makes me really confused.
Now I know we will be getting more mainline jets so this is only a short term issue for DAL, but our union did not need to pacify them this way.

 

[Networ-King]

I just love the absolute BS "spin" the union had the gall to put out in their email:


"It’s important to understand that the agreement is a settlement over an issue of scope language [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]interpretation [/FONT]and [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]not [/FONT]an issue of "scope relief." Scope language is intended to protect pilot jobs. This agreement enhances job protections for Delta pilots. There has been no change to the scope language in our contract, and this settlement will [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]not [/FONT]increase the number of regional jet hulls; it simply codifies the number of seats that will be allowed in up to 26 of those aircraft."


The company was limited to a certain number of 76 seat jets. The union just allowed them to go over that amount by almost 30 additional 76-seat jets. That is scope relief pure and simple. They just allowed the potential parking of even more DC-9's. I don't care that the total number of RJ's did not increase. They are allowing more 76-seat jets to exist.

DAL/NWA alpa has proven once again that they are utterly incapable of preserving scope protections. The company says "boo" and they pee their pants. RA must be laughing his rear-end off.

Ask any of the roughly 2000 pilots at both DAL and NWA that were furloughed after 9-11 how that useless no-furlough clause worked out for them. Sure glad the union got an "improvement" in it in exchange for this.

Same f*&king pig with a different color lip stick....Just wait till the pilots, "brothers and sisters" that don't get furloughed fly an overwhelming amount of open time and then justify it with some lame a$$ excuse. HHHmmmmm what was that average number of hours of open time flown monthly genitalee?????? 4000? oh that's right it was around 5000 hours of open time flown monthly by the double breasted brothers. D a m n.... why oh why didn't I accept that recall?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They have the contractual right to do it, and we are suckers for money. We are are our worst enemy.

 

[hockeypilot44]

This makes me sick to my stomach. I want to give praise to the US Airways' pilots that de-certified ALPA. I wish the new Delta pilots would follow your lead. ALPA is run as a business. We are NOT represented by ALPA. ALPA represents itself and only itself. We caught the company BLATANTLY violating our contract on a HUGE issue and let them off the hook for a bullsh!t no-furlough clause. If we can't hold the company to our current scope agreement, then how are we going to hold them to our new no-furough clause agreement? The correct answer is, "WE CAN'T." We essentially just gave up more scope for nothing in return.

 

[whatitdoing?]

I think the FAA is my better friend than ALPA.

 

[Networ-King]

They have the contractual right to do it, and we are suckers for money. We are are our worst enemy.

Ding Ding Ding Ding .... we have a winner. Great logic ACL... I'll look for the supportive posts of your ALPA brethren should you ever get furloughed for years while the greedy wh o r e s rake in the dough while you can't put food on the table for your family. History will repeat itself because of the same greedy f*&ks that did it last time .... count on it.

I sure hope there are no furloughes because of this relief, but words like.....force manuer, no furlough clause, scope relief, recession, economic melt down..... hhhmmm lots of fun word for lawyers to throw around in courts to justify just about anything. Good luck...

 

[whatitdoing?]

No furlough clauses are a joke. Totally unenforceable. Notice how they put in the 'but' if you do furlough. This is pathetic. Delta MEC just sold away scope.

 

[701EV]

Hey ACL65,

Maybe ALPA should have wrapped their arms around the PID in 2000 and we might not have this problem today. Now the DCI carriers will fight to under cut each to get some of these aircraft.

We're all screwed.

701EV