DAL and SKYW

[XPOO]

The one that will make INC the most money.

So probably the airline that made the money to buy the other two in the first place?

Anyways, just trying to prove there is no such thing as a whipsaw going on

 

[xjhawk]

trust me. if your group has the 700-900's, stay independent

 

[centralpilot]

So probably the airline that made the money to buy the other two in the first place?

Anyways, just trying to prove there is no such thing as a whipsaw going on

The only reason XJT is bigger is because of the acquisition and merger. It had everything to do with union vs non-union labor and nothing to do with growth. Whipsaw is alive and well I assure you.

 

[SPDBRD747400]

The only reason XJT is bigger is because of the acquisition and merger. It had everything to do with union vs non-union labor and nothing to do with growth. Whipsaw is alive and well I assure you.

I agree!

 

[XPOO]

The only reason XJT is bigger is because of the acquisition and merger. It had everything to do with union vs non-union labor and nothing to do with growth. Whipsaw is alive and well I assure you.

We'll agree to disagree

 

[xjhawk]

SO I think the number of 50 seaters in the Delta system is 320.
*Comair has 16
*This Skywest deal reduces it another 66

This leaves 238 50 seaters in the Delta system on the way to 125.

it seems like a close 2:1 ratio for the new 76 seaters in the delta contract would reduce the amount of 50 seaters down to the 125 goal Delta has in order to meet their contractual obligation with their pilots.

Pinnacle being in Bankruptcy is a perfect scenario for delta to make this happen. Delta can give 70 new planes to Pinnacle, then Pinnacle can part 113 CRJ 200's. Leaving Pinnacle with 41 original XJ 900's plus 70 more from the Delta contract, plus the remaining 37 CRJ200's. For a total of 148 aircraft.

What are the other players in this deal? When are their contracts up? I think this is just one possible scenario and the best possible one for Pinnacle. That being said-it could go much worse for Pinnacle as Go Jets is in play and if they get any-watch Pinnacle lose all their 140 CRJ200's and get very little of the new regional aircraft. But, when it is all said and done-Delta has put in place the management they want at Pinnacle-they have a vested interest in Pinnacle being that they are financing the bankruptcy (and caused it). They are also looking at who can staff those new planes. There will not be a shortage of pilots at the majors as they can just draw from all the regionals. But there will be a serious lack of pilots to draw from in the coming years with the new ATP requirements.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Comair is operating a fleet of 40 crj-200s, which was set to be down to 16 by end of this year.

 

[xjhawk]

well with them shutting their doors, thats 40 gone by Oct 1. Only RA and his cronies know the deals they want to make to get this done. One this is for sure- either they need to make some deals fast if they plan on using the surplus of pilots at Pinnacle or it will self destruct

 

[CRJ puppy]

Comair is operating a fleet of 40 crj-200s, which was set to be down to 16 by end of this year.

We only flew 20 in July sir.

 

[BHopper88]

So probably the airline that made the money to buy the other two in the first place?

Anyways, just trying to prove there is no such thing as a whipsaw going on

I'm a SKW pilot and have to say you are clueless if u think there isn't whipsaw between Inc airlines.

 

[Nevets]

So probably the airline that made the money to buy the other two in the first place?

Anyways, just trying to prove there is no such thing as a whipsaw going on

Whipsaw is used to extract further savings. Don't be so naive.

 

[nimtz]

So probably the airline that made the money to buy the other two in the first place?

Anyways, just trying to prove there is no such thing as a whipsaw going on

Recently heard from mid level manager friend at OO that attrition amongst more reliable dispatchers of years past has unfortunately shown in the operation. Well you obviously have not been tempted by a better career like others. I salute your staying power sir!

 

[Flyer1015]

trust me. if your group has the 700-900's, stay independent

Agreed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCUiGArhW2M

 

[veneratio]

Of the 34 larger regional jets that SkyWest is adding to its Delta Connection operations, Delta says 18 will come from Delta regional subsidiary Comair, which is being shut down as of Sept. 29. Comair currently operates 15 CRJ700s and 13 CRJ900s.

The other 16 will come from Pinnacle, Delta says. Pinnacle, which is restructuring under Chapter 11 with Delta financing, operates 16 CRJ900s for Delta that are scheduled to be removed from service between January and May 2013

 

[ASApuppy]

These 16 are already operating in ATL. I think DAL will want to keep that there, especially if we start removing 50's. I think this latest displacement bid out of ATL and into DTW is just a scare tactic. Same one the same manegers tried in summer of '06 when they announced the transfer of 12 700's to SKYW because we were too expensive. Tutt and Hall desperately wanted a furlough to scares us into a cheap contract. Didn't work because other airlines started hiring at rates greater than our shrinkage and we were left needing to hire. Soon as first class annouced, the transfer of aircraft "mysteriously" stopped. I expect our TA will be carefully timed with 16 900's to the ATL base.

As far as the whipsaw... sure the threat is there daily, but if it is so important, why was Skywest pilots given the exact same payrates (that we negotiated over 5 years) the following week after our approval? I'll bet you a paycheck that the same thing happens again.

Bottom line... the industry has changed from 10 years ago. There are virtually no replacement pilots at our current offering wage. Will more come if new-hire CRJ pay is $30/hr? Don't know. The majors are proving they have more to give as they are giving their own pilots 20% raises. Just because your the cheapest bid for the feed is no guarantee you can fill your classes. Full disclosure....this last thought is skewed by a bunch of qualified CRJ pilots on the street. How many ex Comair or Pinnacle pilots will apply to GoJet? I think the changes in scope have everything to do with the prediction of how many pilots there will be in the industry over the next 5 years.

 

[10nCLR]

Recently heard from mid level manager friend at OO that attrition amongst more reliable dispatchers of years past has unfortunately shown in the operation. Well you obviously have not been tempted by a better career like others. I salute your staying power sir!

Sorry, I highly disagree with that statement sir.

 

[Jags1]

These 16 are already operating in ATL. I think DAL will want to keep that there, especially if we start removing 50's. I think this latest displacement bid out of ATL and into DTW is just a scare tactic. Same one the same manegers tried in summer of '06 when they announced the transfer of 12 700's to SKYW because we were too expensive. Tutt and Hall desperately wanted a furlough to scares us into a cheap contract. Didn't work because other airlines started hiring at rates greater than our shrinkage and we were left needing to hire. Soon as first class annouced, the transfer of aircraft "mysteriously" stopped. I expect our TA will be carefully timed with 16 900's to the ATL base.

As far as the whipsaw... sure the threat is there daily, but if it is so important, why was Skywest pilots given the exact same payrates (that we negotiated over 5 years) the following week after our approval? I'll bet you a paycheck that the same thing happens again.

Bottom line... the industry has changed from 10 years ago. There are virtually no replacement pilots at our current offering wage. Will more come if new-hire CRJ pay is $30/hr? Don't know. The majors are proving they have more to give as they are giving their own pilots 20% raises. Just because your the cheapest bid for the feed is no guarantee you can fill your classes. Full disclosure....this last thought is skewed by a bunch of qualified CRJ pilots on the street. How many ex Comair or Pinnacle pilots will apply to GoJet? I think the changes in scope have everything to do with the prediction of how many pilots there will be in the industry over the next 5 years.

I think pinnacle will still have a base in ATL when it's all said and done. All they have to do is move 16 900's with XJ tail numbers out of DTW/MSP to ATL. I could be wrong, but I don't see Delta allowing Expressjet to have that much 76 seat flying out of one base. It goes against their "spread out the flying in one hub" strategy.

 

[CRJ puppy]

I think pinnacle will still have a base in ATL when it's all said and done. All they have to do is move 16 900's with XJ tail numbers out of DTW/MSP to ATL. I could be wrong, but I don't see Delta allowing Expressjet to have that much 76 seat flying out of one base. It goes against their "spread out the flying in one hub" strategy.

Delta's contract with ASA/Skywest (which was part on the purchase agreement when Skywest bought ASA) REQUIRES 80% of all DCI departures from ATL to be Skywest/ASA (expressjet).

 

[Jags1]

I understand that, but sending 16 900's, already operated by pinnacle out of atlanta, and bring in 16 different 900's operated by pinnacle wouldn't change anything. Skywest/expressjet would still have the same percentage of flying.

 

[McNugent]

Not when ASA starts parking 50 seaters.