Dal ae

[Monster Buck]

OK just to make sure, we are talking about guys getting called to go to training from the ae, no one is getting calls about hiring! Capeesh?

 

[stall022]

OK just to make sure, we are talking about guys getting called to go to training from the ae, no one is getting calls about hiring! Capeesh?

According to Airline Pilot Central:

“165 pilots on voluntary furlough (not including SLIPs... Special Leave Incentive Program allows a pilot to take time off without pay)”

I'm guessing those guys are coming back?

 

[Monster Buck]

I think the combined list has more like 3-4 hundred on vol. If there is hiring they have the opportunity to come back. Some will some won't. It depends on their current situation. They maintain their seniority while out but when they declined to come back and stayed out voluntarily they stopped accruing longevity, so its hard to say what will be better for them since it is very different person to person.

 

[Truckdriver]

the training center is going to booming, especially for the bus.

Yeah, I'm hoping to go around March. That way the backup for IOE will be a few weeks and I might just get a little free vacation.

 

[goahead]

Recalls, CPS(20) Mesaba (think 9) then off the street.

So more less until the NWA regionals go no one else has a chance, regardless of qual. What a load of crap DAL used to have a very hard but fair interview and now they might as well be a member of congress with that sweetheart deal.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If you think they will not hire a bulk of guys to damper this you are crazy. Even before they stopped hiring you would hear them joke about hiring 300 guys at once to get around the flow.
Just conjure but it is a way around it....

 

[Schwanker]

So more less until the NWA regionals go no one else has a chance, regardless of qual. What a load of crap DAL used to have a very hard but fair interview and now they might as well be a member of congress with that sweetheart deal.

It's called flow--hopefully works for both lists. This sweetheart deal will feel more like a giant dildo when it goes backwards though! The regionals take the good with the bad, and it also provides job security to those on the mainline list. I guess I don't see the issue. Both sides agreed and those external to this agreement really aren't a part of it.

If you're hoping for a future with DAL, I wish you the best of luck and have a good feeling folks will be finding jobs from off the street as well.

Schwanker

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree with that. I think that going forward minus a major event DAL will surprise a lot of ppl. Numbers will probably go well above 300 over the next few years.

 

[twobits]

Schwanker, good post.

Fact is... the DC-9's are going to be gone one day in the next two years - how fast did it take to get rid of the 747-200? Once the training plan is finished for the current bid then the -9's will be gone. RJ's will takeover, whether on DL's list, or someone else's (not Mesa's of course). These RJ's will be in the form of EMB-190's and 170's, which should be on DL's property anyway. Ask yourself how big the entry level aircraft was for the most senior captains at Delta when they started? Then ask yourself why the 170 and 190 are not on DL's payscale!

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Schwanker, good post.

Fact is... the DC-9's are going to be gone one day in the next two years - how fast did it take to get rid of the 747-200? Once the training plan is finished for the current bid then the -9's will be gone. RJ's will takeover, whether on DL's list, or someone else's (not Mesa's of course). These RJ's will be in the form of EMB-190's and 170's, which should be on DL's property anyway. Ask yourself how big the entry level aircraft was for the most senior captains at Delta when they started? Then ask yourself why the 170 and 190 are not on DL's payscale!

If you guys flow BACK, are you protected by the same union group within ALPA? If not, is flowback MANDATORY?

 

[lookin4better]

If you think they will not hire a bulk of guys to damper this you are crazy. Even before they stopped hiring you would hear them joke about hiring 300 guys at once to get around the flow.
Just conjure but it is a way around it....

Great!!

 

[SpauldingSmails]

A question I've been meaning to ask...

So now that the super-AE has come out, and the major shuffling in categories revealed; coupled with a minor recovery in stock market values, how many crusty old salts do you think might call it quits to avoid a commute or learning a new aircraft?

 

[Superpilot92]

A question I've been meaning to ask...

So now that the super-AE has come out, and the major shuffling in categories revealed; coupled with a minor recovery in stock market values, how many crusty old salts do you think might call it quits to avoid a commute or learning a new aircraft?

Well swe still have a lot of the Early out guys that havent been LET go. They were forced to stay till this year. I had a -400 CA on the jumpseat the other day that said he wanted to leave by the end of 2009 but the company told him he couldnt until Feb. Once all the early outs are gone my guess is the retirements will start after this summer. We're 2 years into age 65 change so the industry should start seeing guys punch out the closer to 62.5 they get.

 

[cq43vt17t]

If you guys flow BACK, are you protected by the same union group within ALPA? If not, is flowback MANDATORY?

flowback is not mandatory.... the pilot can elect to not flow back
CP is ALPA. They now have their own MEC.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

flowback is not mandatory.... the pilot can elect to not flow back
CP is ALPA. They now have their own MEC.

Well... getting our own MEC. We won't have the wheels knocked off the double-wide until March 1.

 

[cargoflyr69]

Schwanker, good post.

Fact is... the DC-9's are going to be gone one day in the next two years - how fast did it take to get rid of the 747-200? Once the training plan is finished for the current bid then the -9's will be gone. RJ's will takeover, whether on DL's list, or someone else's (not Mesa's of course). These RJ's will be in the form of EMB-190's and 170's, which should be on DL's property anyway. Ask yourself how big the entry level aircraft was for the most senior captains at Delta when they started? Then ask yourself why the 170 and 190 are not on DL's payscale!

Actually the 190/195 is on our current payscale along with the Crj-900.

Emb-195
Newhire F/O pay:54.17 5yr:76.86 12yr: 86.45
CAPT 5yr:119.90 12yr: 126.57

Crj-900/Emb-190
newhire F/O pay: 54.17 5yr:65.38 12yr:73.54
Capt 5yr:102.00 12yr: 107.67

 

[Schwanker]

If you guys flow BACK, are you protected by the same union group within ALPA? If not, is flowback MANDATORY?

The flowback pilots would have union support/representation at mainline, just as your typical furloughee. During the last furlough, this flowback agreement was created specifically to provide jobs to the furloughed pilots they represented. They would also be represented by the ALPA structure at the regional carrier (Meseba/Compass).

No, flowback is not mandatory/required. Just a job to "flowback" to if you are looking for work while getting kicked to the curb.

Schwanker

 

[Jabwmu]

I know it has been said but the the training order is ae, vd then md correct?

Where do Reinstatements fall into this? I'm going back to the 320 but figured they'd keep me on the Dc9 till the end of the summer.

Thanks.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The projected training should be out by the end of next week early the week after that.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The projected training should be out by the end of next week early the week after that.

Whats your high/low on school for you and i? I'm betting late march...

 

[Monster Buck]

Where do Reinstatements fall into this? I'm going back to the 320 but figured they'd keep me on the Dc9 till the end of the summer.

Thanks.

First per category.

 

[Jabwmu]

First per category.

Thanks Monster

 

[jetflier]

Actually the 190/195 is on our current payscale along with the Crj-900.

Emb-195
Newhire F/O pay:54.17 5yr:76.86 12yr: 86.45
CAPT 5yr:119.90 12yr: 126.57

Crj-900/Emb-190
newhire F/O pay: 54.17 5yr:65.38 12yr:73.54
Capt 5yr:102.00 12yr: 107.67

I hope that this never happens. This curse will keep the junior folks held back in these low paid Capt positions for at least a decade. Nor really a raise when you consider a F/O can make more...

 

[Monster Buck]

Good point. I believe that we need to get the EMB 190/195 rates up to par with the DC9 in 2012 and make sure they are flown by us. Basically a 100 seat plane and the DC9-10 was about 80. We don't have to have a mentality either about giving something to get this. Its ours. Period. Again you are right these need to be main line rates.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Agreed, but lets get them on property first. Do not cost yourself out of a jet before you take possession of it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Whats your high/low on school for you and i? I'm betting late march...

Mid Feb to late March is my guess.

 

[Monster Buck]

Agreed, but lets get them on property first. Do not cost yourself out of a jet before you take possession of it.

I disagree. They are already ours. This many seats is a main line plane. Its not to be discussed. JB already flies them with better rates. No one else is allowed to fly them for Delta and no one but Delta will, at JB rates or better. We all need to take this stance and no other. Anything that even appears to be a "starting place" short of this will do more harm than good. IMO This is a hard line, its not negotiable. The only negotiable part is the pay rate, but they both come at the same time. Not one then lets talk about the other.

 

[filejw]

I disagree. They are already ours. This many seats is a main line plane. Its not to be discussed. JB already flies them with better rates. No one else is allowed to fly them for Delta and no one but Delta will, at JB rates or better. We all need to take this stance and no other. Anything that even appears to be a "starting place" short of this will do more harm than good. IMO This is a hard line, its not negotiable. The only negotiable part is the pay rate, but they both come at the same time. Not one then lets talk about the other.

Trouble with this thought process is we already have the rates in our contract.They put out an AE with 195 or cj900 not much we could do.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Where are you FI Deltoid regulars going?

ACL?
Peanuckle?
Shwanker?
Monsytebuck?
Superpilot?

et al ...

I'm staying in the NYC ER for now -- probably looking at year round reserve.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

You guys amaze me. The flow through is a written part of the JPWA, and all you talk about is figuring a way around it.

Yet every time the company figures out a way around another part of the contract, we howl in dismay.

You can't ignore one section without weakening all the others.

Nu