Continental pilots/post merger.....ALPA pins?

[nimtz]

I agree, too many fat pilots, looks very un-professional. They should have us weigh in once a month.

I have no problem with that, then again I don't stuff my face every night with ice cream & cheese cakes.

Hi Sean. I tried to run outside in The Woodlands yesterday but by golly it was hot. I just moved into town and I just wonder when will it get below 95 degrees? I'm trying hard to get under 250 lbs like 1 of the 5 of captains I fly with. It's just really hard when you live in air conditioning and are stressed out from trying to make it big in real estate like you. On the plus side, I had an awesome sundae down on The Riverwalk last night! Hope all is well...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Uh, hold on there bud. The uniform standards are what they are at CAL for certain reasons. The group has been rode hard and put up wet for too many years. As you said, you're an "outsider" so let me get you up to speed. The work rules have been so bad, for so long, mgt has come to realize they can't police the uniform too close. You can't clean a uniform that you don't hardly ever remove! I'm not kidding. Look at the flight attendants. They're as ugly as home made soap! (true at almost all airlines today) No wonder; If they aren't flying they're asleep. That's all they have time for. The real tragedy in all this is that too many guys like you are happy to take up Mgt's sword and lash out at your fellow pilots over a uniform issue. While your head is up and locked and you ignore the larger truth. Absent a certain pay/time off metric, you aren't going to have a pilot group that looks like they came out of Hollywood's central casting.

Additionally, and I don't think any of you could possibly understand this without being at CAL and understanding the history, we have a lot of ALPA martyrs. That's a big deal. Too many of the pilots screwed over by ALPA have ended up at CAL. It's hard for some guys to put the ALPA pin on and if any of you really cared to find out why I think you might understand. I wear mine, but certain pilots' slick ties don't bother me.

Valid point... if the company wants good looking uniforms they need to support it with paid dry cleaning and time off to do so.... It is hard to be motivated to keep the uniform sharp when work rules suck... but that is part of the tactic... work you hard, so you are exhausted and don't give a crap....

but I really mentioned the embroidered wings and how that is bad form....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I agree the embroidered wings aren't all that hot. I, and most other FO's wear the metal wings. Unlike several other carriers, we have to wear wings all year long on our shirts and on our blazers as well in the Winter(or on any Intl. trip excluding Mexico/Central America). I don't mind the embroidered wings for winter when you have to wear the blazer with wings all the time anyway but I still don't order shirts with the wings embroidered as I refuse to wear them in the Summer when they will be showing. Didn't NWA wear no wings in the Summer? How about AA. I see AA guys with no wings in the Summer. I know Delta wears them year round.

NWA pilots took advantage of no hats and no wings.... they did thier best to blend in with the pax crowd at MSP and DTW.... it almost seemed like those poor bastards were embarrassed to fly A330s and B747s.... managment most likely chuckled....

 

[SFR]

Hi Sean. I tried to run outside in The Woodlands yesterday but by golly it was hot. I just moved into town and I just wonder when will it get below 95 degrees? I'm trying hard to get under 250 lbs like 1 of the 5 of captains I fly with. It's just really hard when you live in air conditioning and are stressed out from trying to make it big in real estate like you. On the plus side, I had an awesome sundae down on The Riverwalk last night! Hope all is well...

Funny, if the weight is proportioned then heck with it! Yeah, Hubble & Hudson is a good stop (and others around). If you like cigars and vino try Rio 24, a fellow CAL pilot owns it and it is a nice atmosphere.

The heat.....will be nice again around late Sep. (if you consider 80s nice). I don't mind the heat at all, I just hate weather below 60 degrees & don't care if I ever see snow again.

 

[Flopgut]

Valid point... if the company wants good looking uniforms they need to support it with paid dry cleaning and time off to do so.... It is hard to be motivated to keep the uniform sharp when work rules suck... but that is part of the tactic... work you hard, so you are exhausted and don't give a crap....

but I really mentioned the embroidered wings and how that is bad form....

We're way past uniform harrassment as a mgt tactic. We work so much it's a health and safety issue. That should be abundantly clear. It's unfortunate that flight and duty time wasn't as important to Prater as 65 was. I just hope the issue actually gets dealt with in a way that we are all healthier and better rested.

The embroidered wings are something that made their way to the mainland from CAL's Guam operation (I think). CAL Micronesia pilot uniforms didn't require ties at one time and the wings were a bit different. Today's pilot uniform is designed to do one thing: make everybody look the same. Some pilots end up looking better than they normally would and some look much worse. But everybody gets made to look the same.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

We're way past uniform harrassment as a mgt tactic.

Then they have won. I completely empathize. I was a regional reserve pilot who commuted. 10 days off a month. It takes strong character and will to keep the uniform looking good under these conditions.

We work so much it's a health and safety issue. That should be abundantly clear.

Then fatigue calls at CAL should be higher than the industry norm.

It's unfortunate that flight and duty time wasn't as important to Prater as 65 was.

There is some sophomoric joke about sex, you and prater... you just can't get off the guy.... :beer:

As ALPA prez the age 65 issue happened on his watch. Not sure how he is responsible as ALPA prez for CAL work rules.

I just hope the issue actually gets dealt with in a way that we are all healthier and better rested.

The reason why UAL has 1437 pilots on furlough is because of the work rules. More at the end of this post..

The embroidered wings are something that made their way to the mainland from CAL's Guam operation (I think). CAL Micronesia pilot uniforms didn't require ties at one time and the wings were a bit different. Today's pilot uniform is designed to do one thing: make everybody look the same. Some pilots end up looking better than they normally would and some look much worse. But everybody gets made to look the same.

Yet there is choice between embroidered wings and metal? How is that 'everyone looking the same'


It seems the effects of Lorenzo still linger at CAL.

The 1980s were tough for unions. Reagan/Thatcher union busting was going full force, giving Lorenzo the KY he needed to screw workers, including pilots. Note that the UAL pilots conducted a successful strike. Looking back it almost looks like socio-economic phenomenon, that the UAL pilots prevailed in 1985.

Let's be real... if Ferris and Lorenzo switched companies it might be the CAL pilots who prevailed....

Thus the UAL pilots have retained some pride because they did win (there was much at stake for the UAL pilots and the profession itself)... and that is what the ALPA pin is all about....

I see this as an opportunity for the CAL pilots to bury their Lorenzo past and use the UAL pilots total disdain of scabs. While I am sure it sucks to be CAL scabs, they should loath the merger. Life is going to get worse.

 

[IAHERJ]

The CEO came down to the training center, handed out the wings, shook hands, and gave a short speech with a Q&A when I was hired at CAL a few years ago.

Both Larry Kellner and Jeff Smisek handed out our wings and hat brass at the training center when I was hired in 2005.

 

[densoo]

Then fatigue calls at CAL should be higher than the industry norm.

What's the industry norm? Are these statitistics available?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What's the industry norm? Are these statitistics available?

Good reply... I am sure the data is available at each carrier..... for example with UALs work rules vs CAL... and could be shared

 

[Flopgut]

Then they have won. I completely empathize. I was a regional reserve pilot who commuted. 10 days off a month. It takes strong character and will to keep the uniform looking good under these conditions.

Then fatigue calls at CAL should be higher than the industry norm.

There is some sophomoric joke about sex, you and prater... you just can't get off the guy.... :beer:

As ALPA prez the age 65 issue happened on his watch. Not sure how he is responsible as ALPA prez for CAL work rules.

The reason why UAL has 1437 pilots on furlough is because of the work rules. More at the end of this post..

Yet there is choice between embroidered wings and metal? How is that 'everyone looking the same'


It seems the effects of Lorenzo still linger at CAL.

The 1980s were tough for unions. Reagan/Thatcher union busting was going full force, giving Lorenzo the KY he needed to screw workers, including pilots. Note that the UAL pilots conducted a successful strike. Looking back it almost looks like socio-economic phenomenon, that the UAL pilots prevailed in 1985.

Let's be real... if Ferris and Lorenzo switched companies it might be the CAL pilots who prevailed....

Thus the UAL pilots have retained some pride because they did win (there was much at stake for the UAL pilots and the profession itself)... and that is what the ALPA pin is all about....

I see this as an opportunity for the CAL pilots to bury their Lorenzo past and use the UAL pilots total disdain of scabs. While I am sure it sucks to be CAL scabs, they should loath the merger. Life is going to get worse.

You're not being consistent. You previously asked me how long we should cling to ancient history, when I brought up Frontier. And you chastized me about Prater's more recent misdealings. You want to absolve that behavior but think it's going to be a positive thing when the new UAL comes together and CAL scabs can get teased more?! You just don't get it....

Prater campaigned for seniority other than what one might be entitled to outside the collective bargaining process. It's exactly what scabs did. I assure you that's exactly how he would have characterizeed it if it negatively effected him. Anyone who knew him as a junior member would not disagree. Period.

The UAL strike was not the "win" you (especially someone like you) should be thinking it was. It was a battle won for UAL, but a war lost for ALPA. The strike required a lot of active restraint on the part of the FAL pilots. There was a standing offer from UAL mgt. Not one FAL pilot crossed. Not one. Shortly thereafter UAL took the FAL gates and planes and dropped every pilot in what was clearly a scenario where some form of merger policy should have applied. Merger policy died. ALPA's credibility as a union was in the toilet. And in place of any questioning of ALPA's new greed imperative the surviving members rallied around their ALPA pin with artificial zeal.

Think about this: A greed imperative started at UAL with the screwing of the FAL guys. It was those junior UAL pilots who insisted they be dropped that are now senior UAL. ALPA's own merger policy is probably going to put every single one of those pilots junior to at least 75% of the guys Lorenzo hired at CAL. Additionally, a great deal of them are going to end up junior to FAL pilots.

If you look closely at the situation, CAL is the group that has held on to the correct union principles. The ALPA pin is important to me and most CAL pilots. But we don't run with that in place of trying to do good/fair union work. Our efforts have been at protections and providing balanced pay and benefits. That's why our scope is in place and we have so few furloughed. UAL ALPA has done the opposite. They have leveraged everything in an effort to keep the most senior the most well paid. Clearly to a fault when you look at how many are furloughed.

You're too wordy and I'm too busy. If your reply is some non-answer Rez-speak I'm no longer interested in chatting. Think about the situation and ask yourself if you really know who the CAL pilots are. While guys like you talk about a union pin, we [CAL ALPA] have been acting like a union should.....

 

[densoo]

Question/statement for the Continental pilots. Over here on the UAL side of the operation, almost all of us (except out scabs and other non-members) wear our ALPA pin on our tie. In fact, if one sees a United pilot not wearing an ALPA pin on their tie, it's very likely he is a scab or non-member. Do you guys do the same?

Yes. ....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You're not being consistent. You previously asked me how long we should cling to ancient history, when I brought up Frontier. And you chastized me about Prater's more recent misdealings. You want to absolve that behavior but think it's going to be a positive thing when the new UAL comes together and CAL scabs can get teased more?! You just don't get it....

You have vaild points. No doubt the UAL guys have been real tools at times.... but you seem to want to open old issues and get some sort of resolution... how? Why?

Prater campaigned for seniority other than what one might be entitled to outside the collective bargaining process. It's exactly what scabs did. I assure you that's exactly how he would have characterizeed it if it negatively effected him. Anyone who knew him as a junior member would not disagree. Period.

Fine. Now what?

The UAL strike was not the "win" you (especially someone like you) should be thinking it was. It was a battle won for UAL, but a war lost for ALPA. The strike required a lot of active restraint on the part of the FAL pilots. There was a standing offer from UAL mgt. Not one FAL pilot crossed. Not one. Shortly thereafter UAL took the FAL gates and planes and dropped every pilot in what was clearly a scenario where some form of merger policy should have applied. Merger policy died. ALPA's credibility as a union was in the toilet. And in place of any questioning of ALPA's new greed imperative the surviving members rallied around their ALPA pin with artificial zeal.

Maybe.

Think about this: A greed imperative started at UAL with the screwing of the FAL guys. It was those junior UAL pilots who insisted they be dropped that are now senior UAL. ALPA's own merger policy is probably going to put every single one of those pilots junior to at least 75% of the guys Lorenzo hired at CAL. Additionally, a great deal of them are going to end up junior to FAL pilots.

Karma's a bitch?

If you look closely at the situation, CAL is the group that has held on to the correct union principles. The ALPA pin is important to me and most CAL pilots. But we don't run with that in place of trying to do good/fair union work. Our efforts have been at protections and providing balanced pay and benefits. That's why our scope is in place and we have so few furloughed. UAL ALPA has done the opposite. They have leveraged everything in an effort to keep the most senior the most well paid. Clearly to a fault when you look at how many are furloughed.

Your scope is in place and that is commendable. But your work rules suck. Then again UALs work rules are good but that is why there are 1437 on the street.

Very valid in that UAL has sold out scope and the junior pilots to keep the gravy at the top. It is shameful.

You're too wordy and I'm too busy. If your reply is some non-answer Rez-speak I'm no longer interested in chatting. Think about the situation and ask yourself if you really know who the CAL pilots are. While guys like you talk about a union pin, we [CAL ALPA] have been acting like a union should.....

Let's not go down this path.. rather.. both UAL and CAL bring excellent union traits to the table.. and bad ones... an excellent opportunity to shun the bad traits and create an excellent labor group..... I am in.

 

[CFIT]

Rez never gives an answer, but gives a "provide your union a volunteer", response....



Give the regionals they're own union to work with, it will be better for all!

 

[densoo]

Question/statement for the Continental pilots. Over here on the UAL side of the operation, almost all of us (except out scabs and other non-members) wear our ALPA pin on our tie. In fact, if one sees a United pilot not wearing an ALPA pin on their tie, it's very likely he is a scab or non-member. Do you guys do the same?

Yes. .......

 

[dbrownie]

Both Larry Kellner and Jeff Smisek handed out our wings and hat brass at the training center when I was hired in 2005.

We had a chief pilot at NWA do that when I was hired in 1997. It was nicely done I thought.

 

[maru657]

In any case this merger could be a war. As a friend once told me, "There are more pilots sueing ALPA than Lorenzo".