Continental loses captain over colleague's alcohol allegation

[siucavflight]

we have all done it. showed up to work after having a few drinks the night before but we were not DRUNK.

Um, no. We have not all done, not even close to doing it. If I have to fly in the morning, no drinking the night before, period end of story. Again if this guy tested above .04 then fire him, no questions asked, I dont care if his last drink was three weeks ago.

 

[JP4user]

No, we have not all done it. Not by a long shot.

So much speculation about what may have occured...no information, but everybody is an angry expert. Speculation and guesswork is such a professional trait, is it not?

We are not provided with the identity of the reporting party, w(h)eather it be a gate agent, first officer, or the easter bunny. We are not provided with the details of any conversation, offers, threats, or other interaction that may have taken place between any of the involved parties. The only information provided is that a pilot was reported for a potential alcohol violation, and subsequently failed the test and was fired. That's all.

Management that upholds company policy is not bad management, nor bad actors. A contemporary that upholds company policy is not a bad collegue.

A pilot that shows up for a flight intoxicated beyond the legal limits, or intoxicated in any manner (above or below the legal limits) is an idiot and should not be in the cockpit.

A prior poster attempted to cross this topic with that of a 16 hour duty day. A pilot that finds himself or herself fatigued beyond safe limits at the end of four hours, eight hours, ten hours, or sixteen hours, has every obligation to remove him/herself from duty. I've certainly hit a point in a day when I notified the company that I was unable to proceed safely, legal duty notwithstanding. I have refused to go on; safety of flight is the final word.

Someone, we don't know who, declared a safety of flight issue and that indeed did bear out to be the final word based on a legally binding verification of the facts. Offers, deals, and politics notwithstanding, this pilot tied his own knot, wore his own noose, and pulled his own lever to ultimately hang himself. Where does the final responsibility and authority lie? As pilots, we know it rests with us. Trying to spread the blame beyond that is a pathetic effort at cowardice in evading our own responsibility. A man who picks up a bottle knowingly, picks up one end of the stick. When one picks up one end of the stick, one picks up the other. Pick up the stick, accept the responsibility thereof.

Such is the price of being an adult.

Excellent post avbug. Maybe fr8. can now understand this has nothing to do with scabs or other types of labor relations or policies. I wouldn't bank on it though.

Mororns like this CO pilot do nothing but harm all of us. Those that defend or make excuses for this type of behavior are no better.

 

[FN FAL]

Again if this guy tested above .04 then fire him, no questions asked, I dont care if his last drink was three weeks ago.

I'd love to see people's careers ruined over over-zealous prosecution utilizing erroneous blood alcohol content. Maybe we could go after the liberal pilots first, then Catholic pilots. After we run out those scapegoats, we could start working on Jews, Negroes and gays. And if Muslims don't drink, the erroneous blood alcohol content tests could be used to get them out of the cockpit as well.

 

[27 driver]

Nice job by the FO or whomever. I guess trying to get the guy to call in sick and following up with pro standards would have been too much work.

Amen Brother. At least try to give the guy an out. Promotion through assassination is not a good policy.

 

[FN FAL]

Avbug,

That has got to be the best post that I have ever read on this topic. Well said!

Yes, it is a good post, but I don't like being labeled with the comment, "but everybody is an angry expert".

I posted the article because it was aviation related and I realize that if someone reads the article, they might save their career. I'm not judging the accused or the person who reported the alleged violation and I'm not an "angry expert". I have no clue what happened the day the CO captain got nipped, but I do enjoy pointing out the ignorance of the people who claim the pilot was "drunk" when there's no such language in the regulation that the pilot is accused of violating.

 

[skygirl1968]

We are not provided with the identity of the reporting party, w(h)eather it be a gate agent, first officer, or the easter bunny. We are not provided with the details of any conversation, offers, threats, or other interaction that may have taken place between any of the involved parties. The only information provided is that a pilot was reported for a potential alcohol violation, and subsequently failed the test and was fired. That's all.

Management that upholds company policy is not bad management, nor bad actors. A contemporary that upholds company policy is not a bad collegue.

A pilot that shows up for a flight intoxicated beyond the legal limits, or intoxicated in any manner (above or below the legal limits) is an idiot and should not be in the cockpit.

Someone, we don't know who, declared a safety of flight issue and that indeed did bear out to be the final word based on a legally binding verification of the facts. Offers, deals, and politics notwithstanding, this pilot tied his own knot, wore his own noose, and pulled his own lever to ultimately hang himself. Where does the final responsibility and authority lie? As pilots, we know it rests with us. Trying to spread the blame beyond that is a pathetic effort at cowardice in evading our own responsibility. A man who picks up a bottle knowingly, picks up one end of the stick. When one picks up one end of the stick, one picks up the other. Pick up the stick, accept the responsibility thereof.

Such is the price of being an adult.

i have to agree whole heartedly. the identity of the reporting party was only given as "colleague". could have been anyone, including a fresh-out-of-training F/A that is not aware of the "code of honor" among pilots (i.e. getting them to call in sick). i've never been in the position of having to report anyone, and i hope that i never will, but the fact is...this pilot is an adult and is responsible for his own actions. IMO whether it was the ngiht before or the morning of, he should've taken enough care of himself to see to it that he was fit for duty, legally and otherwise. he has no one to blame but himself.

 

[bizicmo]

Yes, it is a good post, but I don't like being labeled with the comment, "but everybody is an angry expert".

I posted the article because it was aviation related and I realize that if someone reads the article, they might save their career. I'm not judging the accused or the person who reported the alleged violation and I'm not an "angry expert". I have no clue what happened the day the CO captain got nipped, but I do enjoy pointing out the ignorance of the people who claim the pilot was "drunk" when there's no such language in the regulation that the pilot is accused of violating.

What does the regulation have to do with him being drunk or not?
Drunk is an excessive indulgence of alcoholic liquor. If you fail an alcohol test I would say you drank an excessive amout of liquor. If he had passed that would not have been an excessive amount.
And from the post before with the Jews and the Mormons, what are you blabbering about?

 

[A Squared]

No, we have not all done it. Not by a long shot.

So much speculation about what may have occured...no information, but everybody is an angry expert. Speculation and guesswork is such a professional trait, is it not?

We are not provided with the identity of the reporting party, w(h)eather it be a gate agent, first officer, or the easter bunny. We are not provided with the details of any conversation, offers, threats, or other interaction that may have taken place between any of the involved parties. The only information provided is that a pilot was reported for a potential alcohol violation, and subsequently failed the test and was fired. That's all.

Management that upholds company policy is not bad management, nor bad actors. A contemporary that upholds company policy is not a bad collegue.

A pilot that shows up for a flight intoxicated beyond the legal limits, or intoxicated in any manner (above or below the legal limits) is an idiot and should not be in the cockpit.

A prior poster attempted to cross this topic with that of a 16 hour duty day. A pilot that finds himself or herself fatigued beyond safe limits at the end of four hours, eight hours, ten hours, or sixteen hours, has every obligation to remove him/herself from duty. I've certainly hit a point in a day when I notified the company that I was unable to proceed safely, legal duty notwithstanding. I have refused to go on; safety of flight is the final word.

Someone, we don't know who, declared a safety of flight issue and that indeed did bear out to be the final word based on a legally binding verification of the facts. Offers, deals, and politics notwithstanding, this pilot tied his own knot, wore his own noose, and pulled his own lever to ultimately hang himself. Where does the final responsibility and authority lie? As pilots, we know it rests with us. Trying to spread the blame beyond that is a pathetic effort at cowardice in evading our own responsibility. A man who picks up a bottle knowingly, picks up one end of the stick. When one picks up one end of the stick, one picks up the other. Pick up the stick, accept the responsibility thereof.

Such is the price of being an adult.

Outstanding post, Avbug. You nailed the essesnce of the situation with these two sentences:

Management that upholds company policy is not bad management, nor bad actors. A contemporary that upholds company policy is not a bad collegue.

It's amazing (disturbing, really) how so many want to shift the blame to management or to the person who brought the situation to the attention of the authorities. The blame for the incident and hte outcome lies solely and completely with the individual who reported for work with a BAC over the limit. Period. All the rest is irrelevant details.

 

[J. Basedow]

It doesn't matter WHO turned him in or IF they gave him a chance to call in sick. Flying paying passengers around requires professional judgement and decision making...especially for Captains. He and anyone else who shows up to fly drunk or drinking before a flight deserves to be fired and should NEVER be allowed to fly passengers again.

PERIOD!

 

[FN FAL]

What does the regulation have to do with him being drunk or not?

Drunk is an excessive indulgence of alcoholic liquor. If you fail an alcohol test I would say you drank an excessive amout of liquor. If he had passed that would not have been an excessive amount.

Enjoy your lifetime of being an idiot.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It doesn't matter WHO turned him in or IF they gave him a chance to call in sick. Flying paying passengers around requires professional judgement and decision making...especially for Captains. He and anyone else who shows up to fly drunk or drinking before a flight deserves to be fired and should NEVER be allowed to fly passengers again.

PERIOD!

Fear, anger and hate are paths to the dark side....

What version of MS Flight Sim are you using?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I think the issue IS pilot's showing up drunk. If they didn't show up drunk and put their fellow employees in crappy positions this wouldn't be an issue.

No it is NOT the issue. You cannot control if a pilot shows up to work drunk.
Again, with 100K pilots there are going to be mistakes made. How the mistakes are handled is the issue.


Worrying about things you cannot control is for the weak, misguided and immature:

If my wife was only a better person.
If I didn't get furloughed
If my daughter never got pregnant
If it would only stop raining
If that pilot never showed up to work drunk
If 9/11 never happened.
If taxes weren't so high.


Be a man: Face your fears and handle life as it comes to you with pragmitism, maturity and empathy.

 

[A Squared]

How the mistakes are handled is the issue.

And the mistake was apparently handled correctly, by firing the pilot who showed up with a BAC over the limit.

Face your fears and handle life as it comes to you with pragmitism, maturity and empathy.

The situation appears to have been handled with pragmatism, maturity and empathy.

The pragmatism to realize that a company entrusted with the safety of the fare paying public, can't give "do-overs" to a crewmwmber who is reporting for duty under the influence of alcohol.

The maturity to realize that we aren't in grade school anymore where tattling is a sin, and to realize that pilots have a greater obligation to passengers than to co-workers when safety is concerned,

Finally, Empathy for the persons who entrust thier lives to the airline, blindly assuming that the airline will provide them with airworthy planes and sober pilots.

So, we got all your bullet points covered on this one.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And the mistake was apparently handled correctly, by firing the pilot who showed up with a BAC over the limit.

HA. We don't know too much... A press article?

Not sure why many have to puff thier chest and declare "What they would do" or "What they think." Does it matter what we think?

The pragmatism to realize that a company entrusted with the safety of the fare paying public, can't give "do-overs" to a crewmwmber who is reporting for duty under the influence of alcohol.

Do-over? Like NWA's Capt. Prouse. He retired on the B747 after flying drunk from FAR to MSP.

The maturity to realize that we aren't in grade school anymore where tattling is a sin, and to realize that pilots have a greater obligation to passengers than to co-workers when safety is concerned,

And one doesn't have to choose. You can protect passengers and help co-workers. It doesn't have to be a drive thru version of judge, jury and executioner. Unless one is scripted to think that way....

Finally, Empathy for the persons who entrust thier lives to the airline, blindly assuming that the airline will provide them with airworthy planes and sober pilots.

Oh you want perfection? Sorry. The self righteous have taken all the perfection.

So, we got all your bullet points covered on this one.

Be careful using bullets. When the perfect people discover your faults they may have a one for you.

 

[OrionFE]

Enjoy your lifetime of being an idiot.

It is pretty obvious, you have that one covered!