Continental loses captain over colleague's alcohol allegation

[big_al]

I'd think a MIL guy and an Air Line guy would understand brother's keeper better than anyone. Worst than the liberals are the Law of the Jungle types that are ready to pound their chest and scoff at thier "brothers" for not having the strength to keep up. Problem is there is always someone better, faster and stronger....do you really want to compete with that guy? Cause he will scoff at you when you can't keep up.

Real men and women are holistic

The real issue isn't a pilot showing up to fly drunk. With 100,000 Air Line Pilots in the US, there will always be pecentages of pilots who are alcoholics, diabetic, cancerous, bi-polar, etc.

The issue is how professional Air Line Pilots respond to our brothers and sisters indescretions. We all make mistakes, what we do afterwards defines who we are. But just as important is how we treat our fellow pilots when they make mistakes. Treating your fellow pilot with repsect, empathy and assistance doesn't condone thier faults. Rather it is the progessive win/win path.

those damn liberals, always demanding stuff. like equal rights

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Nice job by the FO or whomever. I guess trying to get the guy to call in sick and following up with pro standards would have been too much work.

Just wait until the retirement age goes to 65. You will see a lot more of this....how the heck else are FO's going to get an upgrade in their lifetime.

 

[SpeedMetal]

If you show up to work and you fail a breath alcohol test. What does that make you if your not drunk?

that makes you hungover....not DRUNK
still "under the influence"
we have all done it. showed up to work after having a few drinks the night before but we were not DRUNK.
he may have drank a few drinks with breakfast........ but i seriously DOUBT IT!
lets get real...he drank the night before and somebody smelled it on his breath and now he is labeled showing up to work DRUNK.

good nite!

 

[avbug]

still "under the influence"
we have all done it. showed up to work after having a few drinks the night before but we were not DRUNK.

No, we have not all done it. Not by a long shot.

So much speculation about what may have occured...no information, but everybody is an angry expert. Speculation and guesswork is such a professional trait, is it not?

We are not provided with the identity of the reporting party, w(h)eather it be a gate agent, first officer, or the easter bunny. We are not provided with the details of any conversation, offers, threats, or other interaction that may have taken place between any of the involved parties. The only information provided is that a pilot was reported for a potential alcohol violation, and subsequently failed the test and was fired. That's all.

Management that upholds company policy is not bad management, nor bad actors. A contemporary that upholds company policy is not a bad collegue.

A pilot that shows up for a flight intoxicated beyond the legal limits, or intoxicated in any manner (above or below the legal limits) is an idiot and should not be in the cockpit.

A prior poster attempted to cross this topic with that of a 16 hour duty day. A pilot that finds himself or herself fatigued beyond safe limits at the end of four hours, eight hours, ten hours, or sixteen hours, has every obligation to remove him/herself from duty. I've certainly hit a point in a day when I notified the company that I was unable to proceed safely, legal duty notwithstanding. I have refused to go on; safety of flight is the final word.

Someone, we don't know who, declared a safety of flight issue and that indeed did bear out to be the final word based on a legally binding verification of the facts. Offers, deals, and politics notwithstanding, this pilot tied his own knot, wore his own noose, and pulled his own lever to ultimately hang himself. Where does the final responsibility and authority lie? As pilots, we know it rests with us. Trying to spread the blame beyond that is a pathetic effort at cowardice in evading our own responsibility. A man who picks up a bottle knowingly, picks up one end of the stick. When one picks up one end of the stick, one picks up the other. Pick up the stick, accept the responsibility thereof.

Such is the price of being an adult.

 

[HS125]

No, we have not all done it. Not by a long shot.

So much speculation about what may have occured...no information, but everybody is an angry expert. Speculation and guesswork is such a professional trait, is it not?

We are not provided with the identity of the reporting party, w(h)eather it be a gate agent, first officer, or the easter bunny. We are not provided with the details of any conversation, offers, threats, or other interaction that may have taken place between any of the involved parties. The only information provided is that a pilot was reported for a potential alcohol violation, and subsequently failed the test and was fired. That's all.

Management that upholds company policy is not bad management, nor bad actors. A contemporary that upholds company policy is not a bad collegue.

A pilot that shows up for a flight intoxicated beyond the legal limits, or intoxicated in any manner (above or below the legal limits) is an idiot and should not be in the cockpit.

A prior poster attempted to cross this topic with that of a 16 hour duty day. A pilot that finds himself or herself fatigued beyond safe limits at the end of four hours, eight hours, ten hours, or sixteen hours, has every obligation to remove him/herself from duty. I've certainly hit a point in a day when I notified the company that I was unable to proceed safely, legal duty notwithstanding. I have refused to go on; safety of flight is the final word.

Someone, we don't know who, declared a safety of flight issue and that indeed did bear out to be the final word based on a legally binding verification of the facts. Offers, deals, and politics notwithstanding, this pilot tied his own knot, wore his own noose, and pulled his own lever to ultimately hang himself. Where does the final responsibility and authority lie? As pilots, we know it rests with us. Trying to spread the blame beyond that is a pathetic effort at cowardice in evading our own responsibility. A man who picks up a bottle knowingly, picks up one end of the stick. When one picks up one end of the stick, one picks up the other. Pick up the stick, accept the responsibility thereof.

Such is the price of being an adult.

Avbug,

That has got to be the best post that I have ever read on this topic. Well said!

 

[siucavflight]

we have all done it. showed up to work after having a few drinks the night before but we were not DRUNK.

Um, no. We have not all done, not even close to doing it. If I have to fly in the morning, no drinking the night before, period end of story. Again if this guy tested above .04 then fire him, no questions asked, I dont care if his last drink was three weeks ago.

 

[JP4user]

No, we have not all done it. Not by a long shot.

So much speculation about what may have occured...no information, but everybody is an angry expert. Speculation and guesswork is such a professional trait, is it not?

We are not provided with the identity of the reporting party, w(h)eather it be a gate agent, first officer, or the easter bunny. We are not provided with the details of any conversation, offers, threats, or other interaction that may have taken place between any of the involved parties. The only information provided is that a pilot was reported for a potential alcohol violation, and subsequently failed the test and was fired. That's all.

Management that upholds company policy is not bad management, nor bad actors. A contemporary that upholds company policy is not a bad collegue.

A pilot that shows up for a flight intoxicated beyond the legal limits, or intoxicated in any manner (above or below the legal limits) is an idiot and should not be in the cockpit.

A prior poster attempted to cross this topic with that of a 16 hour duty day. A pilot that finds himself or herself fatigued beyond safe limits at the end of four hours, eight hours, ten hours, or sixteen hours, has every obligation to remove him/herself from duty. I've certainly hit a point in a day when I notified the company that I was unable to proceed safely, legal duty notwithstanding. I have refused to go on; safety of flight is the final word.

Someone, we don't know who, declared a safety of flight issue and that indeed did bear out to be the final word based on a legally binding verification of the facts. Offers, deals, and politics notwithstanding, this pilot tied his own knot, wore his own noose, and pulled his own lever to ultimately hang himself. Where does the final responsibility and authority lie? As pilots, we know it rests with us. Trying to spread the blame beyond that is a pathetic effort at cowardice in evading our own responsibility. A man who picks up a bottle knowingly, picks up one end of the stick. When one picks up one end of the stick, one picks up the other. Pick up the stick, accept the responsibility thereof.

Such is the price of being an adult.

Excellent post avbug. Maybe fr8. can now understand this has nothing to do with scabs or other types of labor relations or policies. I wouldn't bank on it though.

Mororns like this CO pilot do nothing but harm all of us. Those that defend or make excuses for this type of behavior are no better.

 

[FN FAL]

Again if this guy tested above .04 then fire him, no questions asked, I dont care if his last drink was three weeks ago.

I'd love to see people's careers ruined over over-zealous prosecution utilizing erroneous blood alcohol content. Maybe we could go after the liberal pilots first, then Catholic pilots. After we run out those scapegoats, we could start working on Jews, Negroes and gays. And if Muslims don't drink, the erroneous blood alcohol content tests could be used to get them out of the cockpit as well.

 

[27 driver]

Nice job by the FO or whomever. I guess trying to get the guy to call in sick and following up with pro standards would have been too much work.

Amen Brother. At least try to give the guy an out. Promotion through assassination is not a good policy.

 

[FN FAL]

Avbug,

That has got to be the best post that I have ever read on this topic. Well said!

Yes, it is a good post, but I don't like being labeled with the comment, "but everybody is an angry expert".

I posted the article because it was aviation related and I realize that if someone reads the article, they might save their career. I'm not judging the accused or the person who reported the alleged violation and I'm not an "angry expert". I have no clue what happened the day the CO captain got nipped, but I do enjoy pointing out the ignorance of the people who claim the pilot was "drunk" when there's no such language in the regulation that the pilot is accused of violating.