Continental loses captain over colleague's alcohol allegation

[Cardinal]

irregardless

....is not a word. Double negative.

 

[avbug]

Don't get him started again. He's yanking the chain to see who will bite on the definition, as he did earlier in the thread.

Of course, the concept that the author of the article precisely intended to convey the exact working relationship of the reporting party (whom is not cited) is nebulous at best...particularly considering the article does not address nor discuss the nature of the reporting party. The article is vague at best. More importantly, why should one presuppose that the author has any particular understanding of the relationship that may exist between a captain, and any other company employee?

Therefore, attempting to read into what is not written is not only fruitless, but arguementative...probably the intent in carrying on the mindless discussions that have hereto been invoked. So many have howled in anger at the f/o who would report a captain, when no such information has been provided. So many have howled in anger at the management that would believe such allegations, or take action on them, when the only information the article does provide is that the actor (captain) failed the alcohol test.

FN is trying to get a rise...and has been moderately successful among the lemmings who failed to take note of the fact that no meaningful information has been provided. Sad, but laughable. Some folks must just have a desire to be angry. Perhaps the airline slogan ought to be XXX, we're angry, and it shows.

Or more increasingly, XXX, we're drunk, and it shows. Twist the semantics anyway you wish. Drunk. Intoxicated. Of limited performance. Diminished. Blasted. Wasted. Tipped. Buzzed. Fried. Happy. Whatever you want to call it...over the legal limit is over the legal limit, and them's the facts. Period.

Collegue or not. Protege, contemporary, compatriot, buddy, fellow employee, whatever. All irrelevant.

 

[Caveman]

....is not a word. Double negative.

Irregardless of weather or not I think its' a word, I ain't gonna use it no more.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, what would you do if you talked to him and he still refused to call in sick?

You don't suggest he call in sick. You give him the choice of calling in sick or you'll do it for him. Either way he doesn't operate the jet. Get it? .

Most if not all of my post reflect this ideal....

 

[FN FAL]

The term "colleague" as used in the article may actually refer to anyone whom the Pilot works with closely. This can include captains, FO's, FA's, dispatchers or anyone else closely involved with his flight. Discretion (by use of colleague) may have been used by the airline in order to preserve the persons identity.

Everybody is a co-captain until something happens and the lawsuits are filed.

 

[wt219200]

I was digging airplanes out of the ocean when you were still pooping yellow...and it is aren't.

Enjoy your lifetime of being an idiot.

How do you dig water?

 

[clickclickboom]

Whatever. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish about you scab mantra and some idiot that ruins his career. Perhaps if you didn't post while drinking your message may come across better.

Who knows what type of employee reported it. In my opinion it doesn't matter. You drink, you lose your job.

Couldnt agree more.. It just amazes me that i am reading posts about how it is possibly everyones fault except the pilot in question.. Blame the FO? or a whistleblower for not confronting the guy?? That is absolute insanity!! The captain is a grown adult and deserves everything coming to him and more.. If then pilot does not have the maturity or integrity to show up to fly a $50 million jet sober then I sure as hell dont want my family on that plane.

 

[FR8mastr]

Couldnt agree more.. It just amazes me that i am reading posts about how it is possibly everyones fault except the pilot in question.. Blame the FO? or a whistleblower for not confronting the guy?? That is absolute insanity!! The captain is a grown adult and deserves everything coming to him and more.. If then pilot does not have the maturity or integrity to show up to fly a $50 million jet sober then I sure as hell dont want my family on that plane.

I dont think anyone on here has blamed anyone but the pilot in question for the drinking. Maybe if you could get off your holier than thou, self proclaimed moral god of aviation pedestal you would understand that what myself and others have posted was about how it was handled. No matter what, this guy would not have flown and would have gotten help and or whatever he needed to get his act together. The difference is you would rather have him fired, destroying his and more importantly his families lives. Where, I would have given him that one last chance to do the right thing by seeking help himself via pro. standards ect. The only thing I hope is that if you ever make a mistake somebody just like yourself is there to judge you with all the compassion that you would give them. Flown tired? well studies have proven that is actually worse than small amounts of alcohol. I sure as heck dont want my family on with you, I think you should be fired!

 

[Baraqyal]

Nice job by the FO or whomever. I guess trying to get the guy to call in sick and following up with pro standards would have been too much work.

Just FYI here, Professional Standards is NEVER allowed to get involved in any issue regarding any type of substance abuse.

 

[pipe]

But they can steer you to the appropriate place. Most decent companies have EAP's (Employee Assistance Programs) that will give even a pilot one chance at rehab - even at company expense.

Guarantee if you called pro standards you'd get there eventually.

 

[atrdriver]

My favorite is the first line, "only minutes before takeoff". Have to hook the readers, like he was in position on the runway when a police car stopped the plane. Find out later in the story that it was before pax boarded. That's a little different than "minutes before takeoff."

 

[clickclickboom]

Moral God of Aviation Pedestal

I dont think anyone on here has blamed anyone but the pilot in question for the drinking. Maybe if you could get off your holier than thou, self proclaimed moral god of aviation pedestal you would understand that what myself and others have posted was about how it was handled. No matter what, this guy would not have flown and would have gotten help and or whatever he needed to get his act together. The difference is you would rather have him fired, destroying his and more importantly his families lives. Where, I would have given him that one last chance to do the right thing by seeking help himself via pro. standards ect. The only thing I hope is that if you ever make a mistake somebody just like yourself is there to judge you with all the compassion that you would give them. Flown tired? well studies have proven that is actually worse than small amounts of alcohol. I sure as heck dont want my family on with you, I think you should be fired!

Call it what you want pal.. If the guy showed up drunk it is obvious that he was not concerned about entering a treatment program..

Yes I would rather see him fired and his family has him to blame 110%

I dont show up drunk to fly airplanes and If i did i would deserve to stock shelves at wal mart for the rest of my life and I wouldnt exppect the defense of you or anyone else.. A drunk pilot risking lives is a kick in the face to you me and every other professional in this industry and people like that need not apply.

 

[MJG]

I feel fairly certain that the guilty party involved in this mess was "turned in" not by a fellow pilot, but again by a FELLOW CO-WORKER, i.e. Ramper, Gate Agent, etc.

As airline pilots, most of us have seen enough of this lately to "game plan" what we would do if this exact situation came upon us. Most of us I feel fairly certain would pull the guy aside, knowing full well what the individual stood to lose, and at the very least urge him or her to call off sick.

CAL has one of the best EAP programs in the industry, it's a shame that this individual will not get to use their EAP program for what it was designed.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Call it what you want pal.. If the guy showed up drunk it is obvious that he was not concerned about entering a treatment program..

Yes I would rather see him fired and his family has him to blame 110%

I dont show up drunk to fly airplanes and If i did i would deserve to stock shelves at wal mart for the rest of my life and I wouldnt exppect the defense of you or anyone else.. A drunk pilot risking lives is a kick in the face to you me and every other professional in this industry and people like that need not apply.

Alcoholism is a medical condition. And treated as an addicition. You could get informed so you can act accordingly if you are ever in this situation.

Imagine how'd you feel if a fellow pilot handled you showing up drink to fly with a high level of professionalism. You got to keep your job and not have to stock shelves. How'd that be? Or would you stick to your integrity and go stock shelves on your own accord cause that is what you'd expect others to do...

It's liken to a racist who is trouble and is helped by someone he hates. How do you deal with that?

That is what this is all about. Hating the drunk pilot. Rather hate the behavior and not the person.

Your comments indicate that you are not a very trustworthy fellow pilot. If I performed in a way you didn't approve of could you sperate the behavior from the person? Would you call the CP? I'd be on guard flying with you....

 

[clickclickboom]

Alcoholism is a medical condition. And treated as an addicition. You could get informed so you can act accordingly if you are ever in this situation.

Imagine how'd you feel if a fellow pilot handled you showing up drink to fly with a high level of professionalism. You got to keep your job and not have to stock shelves. How'd that be? Or would you stick to your integrity and go stock shelves on your own accord cause that is what you'd expect others to do...

It's liken to a racist who is trouble and is helped by someone he hates. How do you deal with that?

That is what this is all about. Hating the drunk pilot. Rather hate the behavior and not the person.

Your comments indicate that you are not a very trustworthy fellow pilot. If I performed in a way you didn't approve of could you sperate the behavior from the person? Would you call the CP? I'd be on guard flying with you....

I am not trying to start a riot here. If the guy called my room 15 mins before the airport van. I would go to his room sit down with him and we would do the right thing.. I never said that I would nark someone out just because i suspect they were drunk. BUT this guy obviously knew he had too much to drink and I feel he had an obligation to come forward before walking onto the aircraft.. I feel that was a blatant disregard for safety and should not be tolerated. He could have called in sick or contacted the safety dept and asked for help.

Lets say he went out flying and the proverbial $hit hits the fan and an emergency is presented that requires 110% of his skill and decision making to get the bird on the ground. The plane crahses and people die as a result of his intoxication are you telling me you are going to respond on this thread and rationalize his behavior?

I am 110% for helping anybody out that needs help but these events went beyond that. Does he need treatment or did he just make a bad decision?? The answer could be either but my position remains that when certain pilots make these decisions they risk the livliehood and safety of each and evey one of us that have worked so hard to be a part of this industry.

We are always under the microscope in this industry and if it is not the press it is the faa, checkrides, or the opportunity to lose your job 2 times a year with a medical exam.. If a company has a zero tolerance policy it needs to be followed 110% period!

 

[FN FAL]

How do you dig water?

I dig water fine, but them dudes with their arms a bobbing and their asses still seatbelted into them cockpit seats, weren't digging it all that groovy.

 

[AC560]

Alcoholism is a medical condition. And treated as an addicition. You could get informed so you can act accordingly if you are ever in this situation.

Why assume a pilot showing up drunk to work is an alcoholic and not just somebody who made the choice to drink to much the night before?

If you knew a pilot was smuggling weapons or drugs aboard an aircraft would you take him aside and advise he get rid of the contraband first, or would you contact the law?

 

[Mr Wu]

Why assume a pilot showing up drunk to work is an alcoholic and not just somebody who made the choice to drink to much the night before?

If you knew a pilot was smuggling weapons or drugs aboard an aircraft would you take him aside and advise he get rid of the contraband first, or would you contact the law?

This is the problem with alcoholism. The uninformed think that it is a choice and not an addiction. To use the same thinking you used in your example......If your captain showed up for work with a cold, would you call the CP? the FAA?

He has a medical deficiency which should disqualify him from flying, not to mention being locked in an aluminum tube with somebody that has an airborne contagion.

 

[FR8mastr]

Why assume a pilot showing up drunk to work is an alcoholic and not just somebody who made the choice to drink to much the night before?

If you knew a pilot was smuggling weapons or drugs aboard an aircraft would you take him aside and advise he get rid of the contraband first, or would you contact the law?

Lets see international drug king pin/ arms dealer, or drank too much because his cheating wife is banging the mailman... yep sounds like the same thing to me.

For all you hard line letter of the law types out there, I expect to read in the paper next week how a rash of pilots have turned themselves in to the police for speeding. Even 1 mph over is breaking the law and could result in lost lives. So for the good of us all turn yourselves in so you may set an example for the rest of us to look up to.

 

[AC560]

Lets see international drug king pin/ arms dealer, or drank too much because his cheating wife is banging the mailman... yep sounds like the same thing to me.

Maybe the pilot is smuggling drugs because he can't put his kld through schools on the substandard wages pilots get paid? Shouldn't he get the benefit of the doubt before losing his job?

This is the problem with alcoholism. The uninformed think that it is a choice and not an addiction. To use the same thinking you used in your example......If your captain showed up for work with a cold, would you call the CP? the FAA?

Yes but not all people who show up to work loaded are alcoholics, and if I saw anyone who showed up to fly with me in a condition which would jepordize the flight I would report them (if I was flyin for a living). Because again if I give somebody a pass who is to say they won't do the same thing again with their next co-pilot? I would hate to live with myself knowing Captain Bob flew into the ide of a mountain drunk because F/O Steve didn't notice his condition was impaired if I had covered his ass two months prior. In fact if in the inquiry it came out I knew about it I would probably lose my job and would more then likely be the recipent of a lot of lawsuits from the relatives of the passengers who died.