Continental loses captain over colleague's alcohol allegation

[FR8mastr]

For all we know, that confrontation may have already taken place. I think we would all hope that it did; it'd be a shame to see a guy lose his job, possibly ruin his career, over a one-time lapse in judgement. Some judicious forgiveness keeps the world going round.

But at the same time, if the pilot in question really is a hopeless screw-up (and this is possible too), then any one of us probably would have blown the whistle on him. There are some people who shouldn't be flying airliners.

We don't have enough information to say whether this colleague did the right thing; it could go either way. Some of you guys on this thread are really tearing into each other, and I don't know why.

I agree if that confrontation did take place, then to heck with him.

 

[FN FAL]

If you show up to work and you fail a breath alcohol test. What does that make you if your not drunk?

"Your" drunk.

Read the regulation that was violated and tell me whether or not the word drunk is in the regulation.

 

[FN FAL]

You're new to this aviation thing, are'nt you? You might want to back up a bit from all those paints you're using to paint your pretty little pictures. Hey, you remember the NWA crash in Detroit years ago......probably not!

I was digging airplanes out of the ocean when you were still pooping yellow...and it is aren't.

 

[OrionFE]

I was digging airplanes out of the ocean when you were still pooping yellow...and it is aren't.

Right on! Sounds like fun.

 

[bizicmo]

"Your" drunk.

Read the regulation that was violated and tell me whether or not the word drunk is in the regulation.

From the story you posted it reads, "A breath alcohol test was administered and the pilot, tested positive above the legal limit for pilots."

By testing above the legal limit that legally makes him drunk.

Drunk has many definitions one being, "Excessive or habitual indulgence in alcoholic liquor." Dictionary.com

If one test above the legal limits that could be labeled, excessive indulgence in alcoholic liquor.

 

[siucavflight]

Nice job by the FO or whomever. I guess trying to get the guy to call in sick and following up with pro standards would have been too much work.

I guess that not drinking before your flight and not showing up to work above the legal limit would have been too much to ask from the guy. I dont feel bad for him one bit.









i

 

[kingsize]

Wow, you guys jump to conclusions fast. Obviously, it's a very emotional topic. We've all made mistakes, and all of us have known people who are quick to tattle, and others who would stand by their "colleagues" or "friends" no matter what.

I have learned the hard way---a couple of times. I am that good guy, and have taken some serious hits by taking blame for others, or covering up for them. Some of those people could not care less about what I did, and are thankful only for themselves, that they got off the hook.

I ask you to consider a question I have been asking of myself more and more since being involved in situations such as this:
What kind of person would put *ME* into such an awkward, career-threatening, credibility-threatening situation?

I don't put others in such positions. I take responsibility for my actions, and would never put someone else's career on the line by trying to cover my own ass. So why should I take that risk for someone else that completely disregards the possible ramifications to me? He better have a VERY good reason for it, or do exactly what I tell him to do to save his career, or be my mom. Most likely he is not my mom, and does not have a good reason for putting my career at risk. That leaves only one option: him doing EXACTLY what I say. If I tell him to go home, he better go home, and not fight me on it, or come up with some other scheme to save his butt.

It’s the Golden Rule. It goes both ways, and this has to be weighed in choosing what you do. This stuff is gut-wrenching to me, when I get put into messed up situations (by other people mind you, not of my own errant behavior) like this.

So let’s find out some more info before jumping all over the “colleague” who told.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Kingsize-

Take it a step further. When you suspect your fellow pilot of doing something dangerous (say drinking) to himself, the pilot group or the profession, you pull him aside and say. I strongly suggests you call in sick. Other wise I take the step of safety. The choice is yours. Then in three days I'll contact the HIMS Chairman and follow up that you've already contacted him. If you haven't contact him I'll call the chief pilot. Again the choice is yours.

A little dramtic and cheesy, but you give the guy plenty of time to make his own choices, while at the same time you aren't covering up is poor behavior.

A once and in a career event....

 

[FN FAL]

From the story you posted it reads, "A breath alcohol test was administered and the pilot, tested positive above the legal limit for pilots."

By testing above the legal limit that legally makes him drunk.

Drunk has many definitions one being, "Excessive or habitual indulgence in alcoholic liquor." Dictionary.com

If one test above the legal limits that could be labeled, excessive indulgence in alcoholic liquor.

Nope, nope and nope. You couldn't find the word "drunk" in any regulation regarding this incident, could you?

 

[ACT700]

With the current state of the industry, the Feds need to consider raising the limit, anyway!!!

 

[big_al]

I'd think a MIL guy and an Air Line guy would understand brother's keeper better than anyone. Worst than the liberals are the Law of the Jungle types that are ready to pound their chest and scoff at thier "brothers" for not having the strength to keep up. Problem is there is always someone better, faster and stronger....do you really want to compete with that guy? Cause he will scoff at you when you can't keep up.

Real men and women are holistic

The real issue isn't a pilot showing up to fly drunk. With 100,000 Air Line Pilots in the US, there will always be pecentages of pilots who are alcoholics, diabetic, cancerous, bi-polar, etc.

The issue is how professional Air Line Pilots respond to our brothers and sisters indescretions. We all make mistakes, what we do afterwards defines who we are. But just as important is how we treat our fellow pilots when they make mistakes. Treating your fellow pilot with repsect, empathy and assistance doesn't condone thier faults. Rather it is the progessive win/win path.

those damn liberals, always demanding stuff. like equal rights

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Nice job by the FO or whomever. I guess trying to get the guy to call in sick and following up with pro standards would have been too much work.

Just wait until the retirement age goes to 65. You will see a lot more of this....how the heck else are FO's going to get an upgrade in their lifetime.

 

[SpeedMetal]

If you show up to work and you fail a breath alcohol test. What does that make you if your not drunk?

that makes you hungover....not DRUNK
still "under the influence"
we have all done it. showed up to work after having a few drinks the night before but we were not DRUNK.
he may have drank a few drinks with breakfast........ but i seriously DOUBT IT!
lets get real...he drank the night before and somebody smelled it on his breath and now he is labeled showing up to work DRUNK.

good nite!

 

[avbug]

still "under the influence"
we have all done it. showed up to work after having a few drinks the night before but we were not DRUNK.

No, we have not all done it. Not by a long shot.

So much speculation about what may have occured...no information, but everybody is an angry expert. Speculation and guesswork is such a professional trait, is it not?

We are not provided with the identity of the reporting party, w(h)eather it be a gate agent, first officer, or the easter bunny. We are not provided with the details of any conversation, offers, threats, or other interaction that may have taken place between any of the involved parties. The only information provided is that a pilot was reported for a potential alcohol violation, and subsequently failed the test and was fired. That's all.

Management that upholds company policy is not bad management, nor bad actors. A contemporary that upholds company policy is not a bad collegue.

A pilot that shows up for a flight intoxicated beyond the legal limits, or intoxicated in any manner (above or below the legal limits) is an idiot and should not be in the cockpit.

A prior poster attempted to cross this topic with that of a 16 hour duty day. A pilot that finds himself or herself fatigued beyond safe limits at the end of four hours, eight hours, ten hours, or sixteen hours, has every obligation to remove him/herself from duty. I've certainly hit a point in a day when I notified the company that I was unable to proceed safely, legal duty notwithstanding. I have refused to go on; safety of flight is the final word.

Someone, we don't know who, declared a safety of flight issue and that indeed did bear out to be the final word based on a legally binding verification of the facts. Offers, deals, and politics notwithstanding, this pilot tied his own knot, wore his own noose, and pulled his own lever to ultimately hang himself. Where does the final responsibility and authority lie? As pilots, we know it rests with us. Trying to spread the blame beyond that is a pathetic effort at cowardice in evading our own responsibility. A man who picks up a bottle knowingly, picks up one end of the stick. When one picks up one end of the stick, one picks up the other. Pick up the stick, accept the responsibility thereof.

Such is the price of being an adult.

 

[HS125]

No, we have not all done it. Not by a long shot.

So much speculation about what may have occured...no information, but everybody is an angry expert. Speculation and guesswork is such a professional trait, is it not?

We are not provided with the identity of the reporting party, w(h)eather it be a gate agent, first officer, or the easter bunny. We are not provided with the details of any conversation, offers, threats, or other interaction that may have taken place between any of the involved parties. The only information provided is that a pilot was reported for a potential alcohol violation, and subsequently failed the test and was fired. That's all.

Management that upholds company policy is not bad management, nor bad actors. A contemporary that upholds company policy is not a bad collegue.

A pilot that shows up for a flight intoxicated beyond the legal limits, or intoxicated in any manner (above or below the legal limits) is an idiot and should not be in the cockpit.

A prior poster attempted to cross this topic with that of a 16 hour duty day. A pilot that finds himself or herself fatigued beyond safe limits at the end of four hours, eight hours, ten hours, or sixteen hours, has every obligation to remove him/herself from duty. I've certainly hit a point in a day when I notified the company that I was unable to proceed safely, legal duty notwithstanding. I have refused to go on; safety of flight is the final word.

Someone, we don't know who, declared a safety of flight issue and that indeed did bear out to be the final word based on a legally binding verification of the facts. Offers, deals, and politics notwithstanding, this pilot tied his own knot, wore his own noose, and pulled his own lever to ultimately hang himself. Where does the final responsibility and authority lie? As pilots, we know it rests with us. Trying to spread the blame beyond that is a pathetic effort at cowardice in evading our own responsibility. A man who picks up a bottle knowingly, picks up one end of the stick. When one picks up one end of the stick, one picks up the other. Pick up the stick, accept the responsibility thereof.

Such is the price of being an adult.

Avbug,

That has got to be the best post that I have ever read on this topic. Well said!