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Continental loses captain over colleague's alcohol allegation

  • Thread starter Thread starter FN FAL
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pipe said:
Each time everyone has kept their jobs, no one has gotten hurt, and none of the "cast of characters" has ever had any further problem.

That is the problem, people get away with something once they are often times more likely to try and get away with it again. While there may not have been any further problem that you are aware of they could very well have shown up drunk with some one else who either didn't notice or ignored it. If they lost their wings it wouldn't be a problem in the future, ever.

avbug said:
I've spent decades in the GA world, and have never seen or known anyone to fly intoxicated.

If anything I think GA pilots are lot worse when it comes to breaking the rules in a variety of ways then professional pilots. People flying without medicals, revoked certificates, no BFR, no annual on their aircraft, have a few drinks at one airport then fly back home, etc. My opinion though is the same as yours zero tolerance.

Whether it is a 747 Captain 30yrs flying the line with 30,000hrs or a 200hr newly minted private pilot when people break these types of rules it puts me at risk when I fly and makes me as a pilot become associated with their practices. Case in point Jay Leno's joke last night of the near miss at ORD that the pilot's were close enough to see which brand of beer they were drinking. The industry/hobby has enough problems without people doing their best to make it even worse.
 
Caveman said:
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner. I agree completely.

A winner of what?

Caveman said:
If I ever have to confront someone the other person's real problem is whether or not I kick his ass for putting me in that awkward situation. You show up not fit to work and I'm supposed to tap-dance around it and 'suggest' you call in sick. Fukc you!

Profanity is the ultimate indicator of professionalism. Nice school boy whinning about having your own on-the-job difficulties and expectations. Are you going to kick his ass on school grounds? Maybe by the jungle gym?

Too bad you can't fly by yourself then everything would go perfect.

You don't suggest he call in sick. You give him the choice of calling in sick or you'll do it for him. Either way he doesn't operate the jet. Get it?

Caveman said:
Why are you putting me in this predicament? Your second chance was when you were looking in the mirror and knew you were unfit, but you decided to come in anyway.

Pipe guy already said it. We get to back each other up. Help each other. I'd think you would've learned that in the Marines.

The crying and whinning is amazing. Show up to work and do your job. If that means dealing with an alcoholic, then so be it. Why all the emotion? Tell the guy to call in sick. If he doesn't, call in sick for him. Wait for scheduling to put a new pilot on the trip or cancel it. Continue on with your day. What is so difficult for you?


Caveman said:
When it gets to the point I get involved the conversation is going to be very one sided. I talk, you listen and comply without hesitation. If you even inhale before replying with an affirmative I'm calling the cops and the CP. I'm going to call pro standards irregardless.

Grow up big boy. This comment reeks of fear and a lack of understanding of what to really do in this kind of situation.

Calling the cops? Are you serious. So that means when your fellow pilots don't like your behavior they can call the cops too? Same with the CP? I'm sure you are a model employee so nothing will come of it but how times do you want to explain yourself to the cops or CP? Finally..if you call the CP then PSC is out. It is one or the other. But according to your post you really don't know what to do or how to handle this. Your plan of action is to:

Kick his ass
Call the cops
Call the Chief Pilot
Call PSC (a waste of time since you called the CP)


I suggest you call your HIMS Chairman. There is a good chance he is a recovering alcoholic and understands these situations very well. Once you get educated you'll feel better about yourself and the ability to deal with situations like this. You can address your fears head on all while not using violence and making so many calls.

Caveman said:
Somebody that knowingly and willingly risks my job and my family's livelihood (not to mention the stupendous safety issues) doesn't get a second chance from me that day. After treatment and rehab I'll welcome you back, but not today pal.

I realize empathy isn't part of destroying your enemy in the Marines, but guess what, this isn't the Marines.

Alcoholism is considered a medical condition. It is not a social selection mechanism to eliminate undesirables! If you go down that path then prepare to be weeded out because you might not fit the next level of criteria!

Your reaction and attitude would be similiar to reading your fellow pilot the riot act for having a heart attack in flight. How dare he eat a poor diet, not exercise and get check ups. Why would he:

knowingly and willingly risks my job and my family's livelihood

You people are real gems. Fine examples of the Air Line Pilot Profession. You have the choice to handle this situation with grace and integrity yet you choose the path of fear.
 
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I've been in aviation for over 30 years, and I have to say that some of the people on this board are pretty scary. You would fly with a guy who smells like alcohol(you don't know the actual level) and hope everything goes alright? You are every bit as irresponsible as he is!

I'd have "the talk", but if he refuses to take himself off the trip...then he's on his own...

Some people here seem to have a screwed up sense of loyalty and responsability.

Professionalism is not about covering up, its also about making the hard choices!!!!!!!!

Rez, what would you do if you talked to him and he still refused to call in sick?

BTW, he could have been turned in by a number of people...

The CS agent at the gate...

The mechanic that brought the logbook up...

The fueler that brought the fuel slip...

On of the F/A's...

The F/O...
 
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SSDD said:
BTW, he could have been turned in by a number of people...

The CS agent at the gate...

The mechanic that brought the logbook up...

The fueler that brought the fuel slip...

On of the F/A's...

The F/O...
Yea, but the article clearly stated it was a colleague, not a protégé.
 
The term "colleague" as used in the article may actually refer to anyone whom the Pilot works with closely. This can include captains, FO's, FA's, dispatchers or anyone else closely involved with his flight. Discretion (by use of colleague) may have been used by the airline in order to preserve the persons identity.
 
Don't get him started again. He's yanking the chain to see who will bite on the definition, as he did earlier in the thread.

Of course, the concept that the author of the article precisely intended to convey the exact working relationship of the reporting party (whom is not cited) is nebulous at best...particularly considering the article does not address nor discuss the nature of the reporting party. The article is vague at best. More importantly, why should one presuppose that the author has any particular understanding of the relationship that may exist between a captain, and any other company employee?

Therefore, attempting to read into what is not written is not only fruitless, but arguementative...probably the intent in carrying on the mindless discussions that have hereto been invoked. So many have howled in anger at the f/o who would report a captain, when no such information has been provided. So many have howled in anger at the management that would believe such allegations, or take action on them, when the only information the article does provide is that the actor (captain) failed the alcohol test.

FN is trying to get a rise...and has been moderately successful among the lemmings who failed to take note of the fact that no meaningful information has been provided. Sad, but laughable. Some folks must just have a desire to be angry. Perhaps the airline slogan ought to be XXX, we're angry, and it shows.

Or more increasingly, XXX, we're drunk, and it shows. Twist the semantics anyway you wish. Drunk. Intoxicated. Of limited performance. Diminished. Blasted. Wasted. Tipped. Buzzed. Fried. Happy. Whatever you want to call it...over the legal limit is over the legal limit, and them's the facts. Period.

Collegue or not. Protege, contemporary, compatriot, buddy, fellow employee, whatever. All irrelevant.
 
SSDD said:
Rez, what would you do if you talked to him and he still refused to call in sick?

Rez O. Lewshun said:
You don't suggest he call in sick. You give him the choice of calling in sick or you'll do it for him. Either way he doesn't operate the jet. Get it? .


Most if not all of my post reflect this ideal....
 
Amish RakeFight said:
The term "colleague" as used in the article may actually refer to anyone whom the Pilot works with closely. This can include captains, FO's, FA's, dispatchers or anyone else closely involved with his flight. Discretion (by use of colleague) may have been used by the airline in order to preserve the persons identity.
Everybody is a co-captain until something happens and the lawsuits are filed.
 
JP4user said:
Whatever. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish about you scab mantra and some idiot that ruins his career. Perhaps if you didn't post while drinking your message may come across better.

Who knows what type of employee reported it. In my opinion it doesn't matter. You drink, you lose your job.

Couldnt agree more.. It just amazes me that i am reading posts about how it is possibly everyones fault except the pilot in question.. Blame the FO? or a whistleblower for not confronting the guy?? That is absolute insanity!! The captain is a grown adult and deserves everything coming to him and more.. If then pilot does not have the maturity or integrity to show up to fly a $50 million jet sober then I sure as hell dont want my family on that plane.
 
clickclickboom said:
Couldnt agree more.. It just amazes me that i am reading posts about how it is possibly everyones fault except the pilot in question.. Blame the FO? or a whistleblower for not confronting the guy?? That is absolute insanity!! The captain is a grown adult and deserves everything coming to him and more.. If then pilot does not have the maturity or integrity to show up to fly a $50 million jet sober then I sure as hell dont want my family on that plane.

I dont think anyone on here has blamed anyone but the pilot in question for the drinking. Maybe if you could get off your holier than thou, self proclaimed moral god of aviation pedestal you would understand that what myself and others have posted was about how it was handled. No matter what, this guy would not have flown and would have gotten help and or whatever he needed to get his act together. The difference is you would rather have him fired, destroying his and more importantly his families lives. Where, I would have given him that one last chance to do the right thing by seeking help himself via pro. standards ect. The only thing I hope is that if you ever make a mistake somebody just like yourself is there to judge you with all the compassion that you would give them. Flown tired? well studies have proven that is actually worse than small amounts of alcohol. I sure as heck dont want my family on with you, I think you should be fired!
 
ReportCanoa said:
Nice job by the FO or whomever. I guess trying to get the guy to call in sick and following up with pro standards would have been too much work.

Just FYI here, Professional Standards is NEVER allowed to get involved in any issue regarding any type of substance abuse.
 
But they can steer you to the appropriate place. Most decent companies have EAP's (Employee Assistance Programs) that will give even a pilot one chance at rehab - even at company expense.

Guarantee if you called pro standards you'd get there eventually.
 

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