Congrats FLOPS!!! Who will be next?

[Diesel]

Rusty Walace- Washed up race car driver
Rustyfan- Angry washed up pilot who hates his loveless marriage.

Honey please pick me up.... please please.

 

[LJDRVR]

I'm going to chime in here in Rusty's favor. The IAM MEC chairman at his former place of employment single-handedly caused the destruction of a great airline. To protect his membership? No. Over some great altruistic principle? No. Charlie Bryan took the steps necessary to allow Frank Lorenzo to purchase Eastern Airlines simply because he pathologically hated Frank Boreman, and was willing to destroy the livelihood of thousands of workers simply to stick it to a single individual.

Rustyfan's experience with that single, career altering event more than qualifies him to sit on this board and make fun of you folks who think unions are the end-all be all of worker's nirvana.

Yes, you negotiated a great contract. We are all proud of you for that. But you guys and gals that work for NJ need to take some time and LISTEN to the guys like Rusty who've seen the dark underbelly of corrupt, self-serving union leadership. You folks NEED to educate yourselves about other MEC's in our industry and see what's going on in an effort to prevent those types of issues from happening to you. Do y'all know what's happened with CALALPA in the last several years? You need to find out. Are you aware of what's going on in the industry involving alter-ego and holding company scams? Your beloved teamsters have chosen to represent a group of excrement who are making a complete joke of a CBA negotiated by a group of ALPA pilots. Careers are being destroyed and wages forever lost simply because the teamsters would like to collect some dues.

Am I saying that you all should become bitter and angry about all of this? Of course not. Again, you guys and girls negotiated a great contract. But if you fail to heed the lessons of those who've gone before, you'll eventually end up chewing on somebodies ____ sandwich. Listen to what guys like RustyFan are saying. He's got some experience there you can't even fathom. To dismiss him as bitter and irrelevant is to lose a great resource for your own education and enlightenment.

I only have two years of experience with pilot unions, but I can tell you as a student of my industry, many of his points that you dismiss are true.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

I prefer to take the middle ground. Keeps things more "fair and balanced," to quote a media outlet with which I am sure you are very familiar.

Sir, someone has to tell you that if you think you represent the middle ground, you should know that you actually make those who do, appear extreme far-right.


Spare us all you're thoughts. You're time will be better utilized bending one of you're life partners over a desk.

 

[Ultra Grump]

BrnJetFuel -

Funny. I think this is the first, or possibly second, time I've chimed in on a political discussion (albeit an off-topic sidebar), so it'd be pretty hard for anyone here to tell exactly what my political leanings are. My personal opinion on the Iraq war and Al Qaeda does not define my entire political thought process. It apparently does yours, though.

Thanks for the input. BTW - spell check doesn't seem to be doing it for you. There is a big difference between "your" and "you're." Look it up.

 

[Muddauber]

I'm going to chime in here in Rusty's favor. The IAM MEC chairman at his former place of employment single-handedly caused the destruction of a great airline. To protect his membership? No. Over some great altruistic principle? No. Charlie Bryan took the steps necessary to allow Frank Lorenzo to purchase Eastern Airlines simply because he pathologically hated Frank Boreman, and was willing to destroy the livelihood of thousands of workers simply to stick it to a single individual.

Rustyfan's experience with that single, career altering event more than qualifies him to sit on this board and make fun of you folks who think unions are the end-all be all of worker's nirvana.

Yes, you negotiated a great contract. We are all proud of you for that. But you guys and gals that work for NJ need to take some time and LISTEN to the guys like Rusty who've seen the dark underbelly of corrupt, self-serving union leadership. You folks NEED to educate yourselves about other MEC's in our industry and see what's going on in an effort to prevent those types of issues from happening to you. Do y'all know what's happened with CALALPA in the last several years? You need to find out. Are you aware of what's going on in the industry involving alter-ego and holding company scams? Your beloved teamsters have chosen to represent a group of excrement who are making a complete joke of a CBA negotiated by a group of ALPA pilots. Careers are being destroyed and wages forever lost simply because the teamsters would like to collect some dues.

Am I saying that you all should become bitter and angry about all of this? Of course not. Again, you guys and girls negotiated a great contract. But if you fail to heed the lessons of those who've gone before, you'll eventually end up chewing on somebodies ____ sandwich. Listen to what guys like RustyFan are saying. He's got some experience there you can't even fathom. To dismiss him as bitter and irrelevant is to lose a great resource for your own education and enlightenment.

I only have two years of experience with pilot unions, but I can tell you as a student of my industry, many of his points that you dismiss are true.

Good post, LJDRVR.


Muddy

 

[jetwash]

I'm going to chime in here in Rusty's favor. .

Now that is the way you should respond on this board, while I may not agree with what you stated I do appreciate a calm responce. Rustyfan's message is getting lost in all of his childish ranting and raving. You send a 3 year old to the corner for a "Time Out", What do you do with a grumpy old pilot in total meltdown?

 

[VVJM265]

What do you do with a grumpy old pilot in total meltdown?

I already said my opinon above, but that is pretty darn funny! :laugh:

 

[netjetwife]

To point out that one shouldn't paint all unions/locals with the same brush, does not dismiss Rusty's comments. To insist, for the sake of fairness, that 1108 be judged on its own track record and no one else's, does not dismiss history. That said, Rusty is not the only pilot around who has had those types of experiences. I'm sure that in a Local that now numbers over 3,000 pilots, there is a vast resource of collective wisdom to draw upon. Those pilots are far better suited to advise their Local whose decisions affect their careers/lives. It must also be noted that there are times when a fresh outlook to go along with a new beginning is the right perspective because a jaded attitude from a person carrying a lot of "baggage" can, and often does, unduly influence that person's opinion. Take a wait and see attitude, if you will. But unbiased folks will agree that that , at least, is the fair thing to do, rather than to condemn an organization just because they can point to a tarnished reputation held by someone else, someplace else, at another time.

 

[LJDRVR]

NJW:

This thread began to take on a life of it's own when you posted a reply to Rusty's initial bullet statements castigating him for each of his assertions. You took a 'holier than thou' sort of an attitude in your response, and suggested that he was not only incorrect, but foolish for attempting to somehow smear the efforts of your husband's local.

With you kind indulgence, I'd like to point out several things here:

Four out of five of RustyFan's comments are 100% correct and true at my workplace. The one that isn't most certainly is at other operators.

Rusty's responses were perhaps a bit rude, but you flung the poo first. Go back and read page 1 of this thread again. You get what you give.

You talk about unbiased people in your post. No such thing. You cannot afford to take a wait and see attitude with your union. If you do, you will have reformed coke-heads flying your jets, union crashpads full of booze, populated with grounded and/or fired female pilots walking around buck naked as sex toys for union leadership. If NJ pilots take a wait and see attitude with their union, and fail to learn the difficult lessons of labor/management relations and the malfeasance that often accompanies them, your husband's peers will be condemned to much poorer quality representation that they deserve, weakened leverage during negotiations and side letters and LOA's that you won't believe, many of them without any membership vote.

You seem like an intelligent, nice person. Take some free advice: You can't even begin to imagine what Rusty is talking about. There's nothing wrong with that, but before you dismiss him out of hand as some sexist old coot, ask yourself: "What does he know that I don't? Why is he so bitter about unions? What can I do to better educate myself about the dangers he was attempting to warn me about before this thread got sidetracked into a personality contest?"

NJW; I'm an airline pilot, but I'm also a student of aviation history. Rusty could tell you stories that would stand your hair on end. Human nature hasn't changed since 1989, please take some time to find out what he's talking about Instead of rejecting him out of hand. (Drop me a PM, I'd be happy to send you my copy of Grounded by Aaron Bernstein. A Splash of Colors by John Nance is a good one also)

Hey! we each have 727 posts.

 

[DBCOOPER]

Why does every thread always seem to turn into a Netjets discussion?

My congrats go out to 67% of FLOPS pilots who are going to try and do something about their current problems over there. Flying as a fractional pilot can be a very challenging job, you guys deserve much more than what you're getting. Hey, do what you have to do....that's my simple opinion when it comes to getting screwed.

Oh, sorry but I have to say that RUSTYFAN.....I really don't think that you are angry at the world as some are saying here. I believe that you have been around the block and I would pay BIG money to watch you debate NJW and her husband "Iceman" on the O'Reilly Factor.