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Compass one step closer

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Next time, I recommend you skip the Airlinks and go right to the mainline.

I know you said this to make your point and 99% of the time I agree with what you're saying regarding NWA/ALPA stuff...but dude that was harsh. :( But free speech is a wonderful thing so preach on Occam.:beer:
 
I think someone peed in Occam's Beerios last night. . . And he's normally so sage. . .
 
1 . YOU don't have squat! I have Compass. It is my issue, and as a Northwest pilot, I am accountable for Compass existing. If it bothers you, I hope you get over it soon.
2. Brand Scope is a function of priorities. Personally, I think it's important, but would put it after a few other important items in my contract.

A Northwest pilot was called out on Brand Scope (BS) and now who's getting testy? By the way, the work of the BSIC was ALPA's highest priority (or so the resolution said) and it does become our issue when you help management create more alter egos that undercut regional payrates. We're not getting over it soon. It's our union too or do you hold to the plantation mentality?

Consider this:

The Northwest "brothers" got $15 million in bargaining credits for driving growth airplanes away from Pinnacle and Mesaba and ALPA let 'em do it.

Read about it here:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/110804up.pdf

and here:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2005/043005up.pdf
 
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If that's going to be an interview question, I won't even bother filling out the application. I'd most likely curl up in the fetal position in the interview due to flashbacks of having to read through the 10 page flightinfo thread on the subject.

By the way, you don't happen to be an ATL commuter do you?

Nah, I live on the frozen tundra of Minnesota. Sure it's cold, but at least the taxes are high!

And not-to-worry about the "treadmill" question. First, the questions are all scripted. The HR staffer has a set, the management pilot has a set, and so does the line dawg. The only variables are the follow-up's.
 
A Northwest ALPA pilot was called on Brand Scope (BS) and now who's getting testy. By the way, the work of the BSIC was ALPA's highest priority (or so they said) and it does become our issue when you help management create more alter egos and undercut regional payrates.

"testy"? You got that right! My airline went bankrupt despite our best efforts to avoid it, and we got hammered. A lot of our goals, and dare I say it, "expectations", got put on HOLD. One of our goals was Brand Scope. We recognized that it would reduce pressure at the smaller-jet end of our contract. We also recognize, as you should, that achieving Brand Scope would have a very high cost...meaning it has to be prioritized with all the other goals we set for our contract(s). The priorities are set using a good ol' fashioned Cost-Benefit analysis. "How much does it cost for the amount of benefit we would get from it?"

From your perspective, the "benefit" side of that equation is obvious. It makes your career progression simpler. But I hope you understand that the "cost" side is 100% ours. You have no risk, other than the possible erosion of the job at the top end...the place you aspire to be.

It's our union too or do you hold to the plantation mentality? Consider this: The Northwest "brothers" got $15 million in bargaining credits for driving growth airplanes away from Pinnacle and Mesaba and ALPA let 'em do it.

Spare me the "plantation mentality" hooey! The career path for legacy airline pilots hasn't changed in 70-years...except now one of the entry-level jobs features a Shiny Jet. The vulnerability of a "normal career progression" to forces that seek to keep us underpaid and overworked hasn't changed either. ALPA does what it can to counter those forces...to the extent we're not wasting money on RJDC lawsuits or wrasslin' with each other over issues like Age 60.

Nobody flying for a Legacy carrier was born there. Each of us paid our dues. In some cases it was with multiple Airlinks and multiple Legacies. Please keep that in mind when you start to type about how much your regional job sucks.

You want to make Brand Scope a higher priority for Legacy pilots?

1. Stop whining about how much your job sucks. We know it sucks...from first-hand experience! No Legacy pilot will argue with you about it sucking. So you should consider whining a waste of energy.
2. Focus on the Benefit part of the equation. Point out that the size of the "threat" at the smaller-jet end of the spectrum is getting larger...in every sense of the word. Mention terms like "adjacent categories". The smarter one's will figure it out, and they're your target aurdience. (The stupid one's will NEVER figure it out)
3. Recognize the Cost, and do some balancing yourself. You want my job, but you would like it to stay as cool as it currently is.

Let me repeat: I want Brand Scope. I'm willing for hop in my canoe and paddle across the stormy water to fight for it, but I gotta wait until ice-out.
 
BTW, Compass has already sent the initial cadre of mngt pilots thru FSI STL - on the 170 sim. What are they flying? ............ I don't know if they have anything in the air yet.
 
BTW, Compass has already sent the initial cadre of mngt pilots thru FSI STL - on the 170 sim. What are they flying? ............ I don't know if they have anything in the air yet.


You are right some of us went through in Dec and the rest in Jan. You ask what we are flying now? I will tell you, CRJ 200 all 10 of us.
 
My airline went bankrupt despite our best efforts to avoid it, and we got hammered...From your perspective, the "benefit" side of that equation is obvious. It makes your career progression simpler. But I hope you understand that the "cost" side is 100% ours. You have no risk, other than the possible erosion of the job at the top end...the place you aspire to be...

Oh yeah, here come the corporate ALPA excuses.

"We're just too busy now to be a union."
"It's just too hard now to act like a union."

The hard times is when you really need a union. The good times are, after all, good. It's called integrity. Any Marines that may be lurking here know what I'm talking about.

Spare me the "plantation mentality" hooey!

Career progression is not the topic. I'm talking about the union's duty of fair representation by not facilitating management's alter ego wet dream and selling out your union "brothers" for your own gain. Those planes your MEC diverted from Pinnacle and Mesaba meant upgrades to Captain, pilots getting off reserve, better/more lines, more bargaining leverage. What's in it for you?The dispersion of flying to multiple MECs/certificates puts downward pressure on everybody's contract including the legacy carriers.

Let me ask you this - are there any "Shiny Jets" at Northwest? Are there any "lifers" at the mainline?
 
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The hard times is when you really need a union. The good times are, after all, good.

Wow! That's profound.

It goes without saying, then, that those who skedaddle during the hard times (we'll calll them "cut-n-runners" to keep it within the vernacular) and seek out lawyers instead of working within the union system lack....what's the word?

Oh yeah..."integrity".

It's called integrity. Any Marines that may be lurking here know what I'm talking about.

"Boo Hoo! That machine gun nest has us pinned down, and I was hoping to make Lance Corporal...I'm gonna sue!"

Yeah...this Marine knows EXACTLY what you're talking abouit!
 
It's called operating at the mainline with a regional contract, oh you will get flow through's to the next step, but it will be at first year pay. Eventually every aircraft will have its own contract. With the size gap between aircraft getting narrower, nobody will be able to tell you what a fair value for your contract will be.
 
someone please educate me here....first off...i dont agree with blowjets or the way TSAH has handled this whole scenario, secondly...how is Compass whipsaw.....this is a genuine question not flamebait...we all know that the current business model with the majors simply doesnt work...something has to change....is the answer paying lowly FO's 20 an hour to fly 175's...God I hope not.....but how is Compass whipsaw or in any way like Gojet.....I am correct that it is a wholly owned entity of NWA??? If so, how is it any different from Comair or PSA???????
 

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