Commuting under attack because of crash

[doh]

They cant tell you what to do on your off time..Do pilots with young kids get a nice quiet night of sleep. With a new born you might get maybe 5 or 6 hours of sleep, alot less than some long commuter flights. I guess the FAA will require pilots to stop having kids, so they can get sleep..they only way to get better rested pilots is to have shorter duty days//

And longer rest periods. At the frac they have to give us 10 hours of rest. It makes a world of difference, as does the 14 hour day. Yes, they can push to 16 hours, but the way we are scheduled it has only happened to me once in 2.5 years.

 

[RJLoser]

Commuting pilots who fly for commuter airlines cannot afford the luxury of jumpseating to work. Put safety first, ahead of the ideology that flying to work is a luxury. It is neither glamorous nor safe for a young pilot flying 6-8 legs over a 14-16 hour duty day to be jeapordizing public safety.
Tough decisions have to be made...make them for yourself or they'll have to be made for you.

Did you commute flying the 1900, CL-65 or your 6 leg days in the 9 "CRASHPAD"?

 

[Raoul Duke]

Preventing and enforcing no-commuting isn't practical or feasible. Lets start with the rest and duty times. No more 16 hour duty days; keep it at 12 hours. None of this reduced rest BS. There should be a minimum of 12 hours for rest. Think from your release time to the time you get home or to the hotel and then when you have to get up again, shower, drive to the airport, etc. With all that you still barely get 8 hours of sleep sometimes. 12 hours minimum, period, no reduced rest.

You are missing the point, companies will enact these policies so that when something happens they can say we have this great policy against commutting, the crew ignored our policies and look what happened. This will turn everythng back onto pilots

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Don't they have to redefine rest? Rest is simply free from obligation to the company, isn't it? You can do what you want with your rest.

One of the classes in every Law school in America is "Legislative Law." Hundreds upon thousand of prospective lawyers take classes on how to write laws/regulations that accomplish a certain goal. Many of these people never pass the Bar exam, but nevertheless are employed in government positions. Commuting would be an easy thing to attack. How about this:

"For purposes of this section, 'rest' does not include the time spent by a pilot commuting to his/her domicile."

Let's be for real. The FO commuted from SEA to EWR! the night before an accident in which 50 people died. There is no way to stop them from regulating your "rest" if the political will exists.

 

[skiandsurf]

Werent these two pilots starting a trip from days off? so, 8hrs or 10 hrs of rest doesnt apply.

Was this flight their first flight of the day (1 leg/day)?


Or had they been flying all day (flying their 6th flight of the day)?

 

[Bluestreak]

There is more to fatigue than commuting.How about 4 day trips with 4:15AM show times every day that duty out after 5PM ? If you live say,20 minutes from the airport,you have to leave your house at 3:30AM,just to park,get through security,etc.So you got up at,say 3AM ? How alert are you around 5PM ? Legally,you could duty out at 8:15PM ! The FAA is in the airlines' pocket.How else do you explain stuff like reduced rest and lap children ? "Circadian rythm ? What's that ?"

 

[skiandsurf]

There is more to fatigue than commuting.How about 4 day trips with 4:15AM show times every day that duty out after 5PM ? If you live say,20 minutes from the airport,you have to leave your house at 3:30AM,just to park,get through security,etc.So you got up at,say 3AM ? How alert are you around 5PM ? Legally,you could duty out at 8:15PM ! The FAA is in the airlines' pocket.How else do you explain stuff like reduced rest and lap children ? "Circadian rythm ? What's that ?"

In an effort to increase safety and reduce fatigue, all airlines will change their schedules. No flights will leave before 10am, and all flights will be on the ground by 9pm.

With this reduced schedule, the airlines will be laying off 30% of the work force.

This, all in the best interest of safety.

 

[Bluestreak]

In an effort to increase safety and reduce fatigue, all airlines will change their schedules. No flights will leave before 10am, and all flights will be on the ground by 9pm.

With this reduced schedule, the airlines will be laying off 30% of the work force.

This, all in the best interest of safety.

No,just issuing a notam when you fly would be better.

 

[Dannone]

Maybe if the guyswas so tired, he would have stopped talikng for maybe 30 seconds, or maybe he wouldn't have had the strength to pull so hard when stalling. Crew rest is not the issue. Sharp, coordinated, talented people are not going into flying anymore because the pay sucks!! Why does American soccer not succed? All the talented kids that play soccer when they are little realize they will get more attention if they play football or basketball. You think people are going to continue to pay $100,000 above the cost of college to make $20,000? Pay must go up or this will continue to be a problem. Anyone notice how easy check rides are now? That is because people would continue to fail them. Pay is the problem!!!

 

[30West]

Commuting is already under attack by the TSA, and crews using the jumpseat as a political platform for making statements. Just saying.....

 

[bailout]

Werent these two pilots starting a trip from days off? so, 8hrs or 10 hrs of rest doesnt apply.

Thats the whole issue. It WILL apply. The language states you have to be able to prove rest before you fly a trip, as in Day one! This means YOUR off time, not rest in the middle of a trip pairing. This is why commuting is coming under attack.

 

[Fred Rogers]

So where do the sacrifices end? EVERYTHING effects your job performance. All of us are impacted by our personal lives away from the airplane. Money, kids, spouses, mistresses, car commutes, airplane commutes, relative drama... We have got to get the industry to accept that there will be times that we are simply unfit to fly. We need to have the balls and the ability to bag in when we aren't up to the task.

Agreed.

Also we could mitigate the personal stresses if we were paid more and were home more. I know it's more poetic for someone to work hard for nothing, but if the work was easy, plenty of time off, and you were paid like a king, do you think the airlines would have trouble finding the best and brightest? Do you think people would do their jobs to the best of their ability so they keep these excellent jobs?

Is it so horrible for someone to get paid a bunch and actually like their life?

wha what.. oh sorry, just woke up.

 

[CX880]

These threads are so pointless. First of all no monetary increase will happen as a result of this crash. No body has the authority to order more pay so that our qol may improve. With that said, we probably won't get anything that will cost the company either like accomodations before a trip for commuters. As far as the regulations, it's the FAA, who knows maybe this time with the pressure of congress they'll remake the regs that were made in the 50s. It's unfortunate that in near 2010 we are still making the same amount and working under the same conditions as 50 year ago.

 

[Fred Rogers]

These threads are so pointless.

I can't argue with that

 

[skiandsurf]

These threads are so pointless. First of all no monetary increase will happen as a result of this crash. No body has the authority to order more pay so that our qol may improve. With that said, we probably won't get anything that will cost the company either like accomodations before a trip for commuters. As far as the regulations, it's the FAA, who knows maybe this time with the pressure of congress they'll remake the regs that were made in the 50s. It's unfortunate that in near 2010 we are still making the same amount and working under the same conditions as 50 year ago.

I would argue that the working conditions are the same as 50 years ago. I think that Autopilot, TCAS, GPS, EGPWS, ATC, etc, are far better today than 50 years ago.