Commuting under attack because of crash

[tyuwerty]

Whether you drive a car, ride a motorcycle, walk or fly, commuting to work will just be considered part of the duty day and airlines will just have to give pilots positive space and pay us for it.

HAHAHAHHAHHAA ROTFLMFAO. Sorry that is not going to happen. Keep thinking positive though.

 

[DX Rick]

HAHAHAHHAHHAA ROTFLMFAO. Sorry that is not going to happen. Keep thinking positive though.

In the long run, I can see the positive spaced tickets. The company can use this against the pilots if they'd like.
Let's say you have a 9am departure tomorrow. They book you for the noon flight today....but there is a 3pm and a 5pm as well.
Well, they can book you for the noon flight, saying you're getting more than adequate rest and the 2 later flights aren't acceptable. If you chose to change flights, then you might be in the CPs office.

But they will never pay you for it. They will say the positive spaced ticket is compensation in itself.

 

[RJLoser]

NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. The dollar runs the show in this business and just as everything else in our industry this will be forgotten and pushed to the wayside. I hope to be wrong. I'm a 4 hr commuter. I would love to eat my words.

 

[VGerect]

That was most likely a lack of experience. She simply had not been scared out of her pants previously by similar circumstances. Great First Officers are quite often formed by some idiot in the left seat trying to kill them. It's a shame some folks find themselves flying as Captain in the right seat, without the pay, but that is the world we live in.

Man how true, I've seen it from both seats myself.

 

[DX Rick]

NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. The dollar runs the show in this business and just as everything else in our industry this will be forgotten and pushed to the wayside. I hope to be wrong. I'm a 4 hr commuter. I would love to eat my words.

I think the same way.
But the way the government loves to take over these days, I wouldn't be suprised.

 

[crashpad]

Commuting pilots who fly for commuter airlines cannot afford the luxury of jumpseating to work. Put safety first, ahead of the ideology that flying to work is a luxury. It is neither glamorous nor safe for a young pilot flying 6-8 legs over a 14-16 hour duty day to be jeapordizing public safety.
Tough decisions have to be made...make them for yourself or they'll have to be made for you.

 

[DX Rick]

Commuting pilots who fly for commuter airlines cannot afford the luxury of jumpseating to work. Put safety first, ahead of the ideology that flying to work is a luxury. It is neither glamorous nor safe for a young pilot flying 6-8 legs over a 14-16 hour duty day to be jeapordizing public safety.
Tough decisions have to be made...make them for yourself or they'll have to be made for you.

Yeah, because only mainline pilots are man enough to commute.
Boy, I can't wait until I get hired at a major. I've always waited for my nuts to drop!

 

[doh]

You are so wrong. They can easily draft a regulation requiring, say, 8 hours of "continuous rest" in the preceding 10 - 12 hours prior to the beginning of a "cycle of flights."

With those two terms defined, BOOM! That would limit commuting. It would be easy to do.

Don't they have to redefine rest? Rest is simply free from obligation to the company, isn't it? You can do what you want with your rest.

 

[ThisistheDream]

They cant tell you what to do on your off time..Do pilots with young kids get a nice quiet night of sleep. With a new born you might get maybe 5 or 6 hours of sleep, alot less than some long commuter flights. I guess the FAA will require pilots to stop having kids, so they can get sleep..they only way to get better rested pilots is to have shorter duty days//

 

[pilotyip]

Just worth reading twice!

We need to take personal responsibility. It's time we owned it!

We blame management, FAA, unions, Majors, regionals, LCCs, CAs, FOs, FAs, pax wanting to save money, PFT, low TT, training, my CFI, your CFI, turboprop and jets.......

How about we, pilots, Americans, people, begin to accept responsibilty. Take control of what we can do and stop expecting others to do it for us.

The FAA can't regulate stupidity, nor can any SOP. You can't write in common sense, someone will always find a way to f' it up! So do what you can to improve your training, skill level, profession. Don't give the FAA another excuse to write one more regulation, Sh!t! there are already enough of them!




eP.

Again a ray of reality in a sea of blame

 

[doh]

They cant tell you what to do on your off time..Do pilots with young kids get a nice quiet night of sleep. With a new born you might get maybe 5 or 6 hours of sleep, alot less than some long commuter flights. I guess the FAA will require pilots to stop having kids, so they can get sleep..they only way to get better rested pilots is to have shorter duty days//

And longer rest periods. At the frac they have to give us 10 hours of rest. It makes a world of difference, as does the 14 hour day. Yes, they can push to 16 hours, but the way we are scheduled it has only happened to me once in 2.5 years.

 

[RJLoser]

Commuting pilots who fly for commuter airlines cannot afford the luxury of jumpseating to work. Put safety first, ahead of the ideology that flying to work is a luxury. It is neither glamorous nor safe for a young pilot flying 6-8 legs over a 14-16 hour duty day to be jeapordizing public safety.
Tough decisions have to be made...make them for yourself or they'll have to be made for you.

Did you commute flying the 1900, CL-65 or your 6 leg days in the 9 "CRASHPAD"?

 

[Raoul Duke]

Preventing and enforcing no-commuting isn't practical or feasible. Lets start with the rest and duty times. No more 16 hour duty days; keep it at 12 hours. None of this reduced rest BS. There should be a minimum of 12 hours for rest. Think from your release time to the time you get home or to the hotel and then when you have to get up again, shower, drive to the airport, etc. With all that you still barely get 8 hours of sleep sometimes. 12 hours minimum, period, no reduced rest.

You are missing the point, companies will enact these policies so that when something happens they can say we have this great policy against commutting, the crew ignored our policies and look what happened. This will turn everythng back onto pilots

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Don't they have to redefine rest? Rest is simply free from obligation to the company, isn't it? You can do what you want with your rest.

One of the classes in every Law school in America is "Legislative Law." Hundreds upon thousand of prospective lawyers take classes on how to write laws/regulations that accomplish a certain goal. Many of these people never pass the Bar exam, but nevertheless are employed in government positions. Commuting would be an easy thing to attack. How about this:

"For purposes of this section, 'rest' does not include the time spent by a pilot commuting to his/her domicile."

Let's be for real. The FO commuted from SEA to EWR! the night before an accident in which 50 people died. There is no way to stop them from regulating your "rest" if the political will exists.

 

[skiandsurf]

Werent these two pilots starting a trip from days off? so, 8hrs or 10 hrs of rest doesnt apply.

Was this flight their first flight of the day (1 leg/day)?


Or had they been flying all day (flying their 6th flight of the day)?

 

[Bluestreak]

There is more to fatigue than commuting.How about 4 day trips with 4:15AM show times every day that duty out after 5PM ? If you live say,20 minutes from the airport,you have to leave your house at 3:30AM,just to park,get through security,etc.So you got up at,say 3AM ? How alert are you around 5PM ? Legally,you could duty out at 8:15PM ! The FAA is in the airlines' pocket.How else do you explain stuff like reduced rest and lap children ? "Circadian rythm ? What's that ?"

 

[skiandsurf]

There is more to fatigue than commuting.How about 4 day trips with 4:15AM show times every day that duty out after 5PM ? If you live say,20 minutes from the airport,you have to leave your house at 3:30AM,just to park,get through security,etc.So you got up at,say 3AM ? How alert are you around 5PM ? Legally,you could duty out at 8:15PM ! The FAA is in the airlines' pocket.How else do you explain stuff like reduced rest and lap children ? "Circadian rythm ? What's that ?"

In an effort to increase safety and reduce fatigue, all airlines will change their schedules. No flights will leave before 10am, and all flights will be on the ground by 9pm.

With this reduced schedule, the airlines will be laying off 30% of the work force.

This, all in the best interest of safety.

 

[Bluestreak]

In an effort to increase safety and reduce fatigue, all airlines will change their schedules. No flights will leave before 10am, and all flights will be on the ground by 9pm.

With this reduced schedule, the airlines will be laying off 30% of the work force.

This, all in the best interest of safety.

No,just issuing a notam when you fly would be better.

 

[Dannone]

Maybe if the guyswas so tired, he would have stopped talikng for maybe 30 seconds, or maybe he wouldn't have had the strength to pull so hard when stalling. Crew rest is not the issue. Sharp, coordinated, talented people are not going into flying anymore because the pay sucks!! Why does American soccer not succed? All the talented kids that play soccer when they are little realize they will get more attention if they play football or basketball. You think people are going to continue to pay $100,000 above the cost of college to make $20,000? Pay must go up or this will continue to be a problem. Anyone notice how easy check rides are now? That is because people would continue to fail them. Pay is the problem!!!

 

[30West]

Commuting is already under attack by the TSA, and crews using the jumpseat as a political platform for making statements. Just saying.....