Commuting under attack because of crash

[CX880]

From what I have heard and read, commuting is going to become alot harder in the future, they are going to monitor us much more closely and ADD IT TO OUR DUTY DAY and we will not get paid for it (of course).

Alot more trips will become uncommutable.

You will be stuck coming in the night before, and paying for a hotel room on your own dime.

Nice career

DON"T DO IT get out!!!!! I hope they put restrictions to commuting. I don't want to be in an airplane where the FO was living it up 24 hours ago on top of a mountain on the other side of the continental united states. And a CA well..... what hasn't already been said about him? The salaries have been going down for years and yet pilots still show up. I wonder what's going to happen when they force you to move to base? Nothing they'll still show up.

 

[doh]

I wouldn't mind them putting restrictions on commuting, as long as they put restrictions on base closures. Let's see, management is obligated to but your house for it's appraised value. You get to pick the appraiser. Management has to pay for your move. Management has to compensate your spouse for loss of income and benefits, if any. My wife, for example, has a defined benefit pension. We move and management has to continue that. Then and only then can management dictate where and when we move.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I expect the FAA to be issuing an NPRM that will require Part 121/135 pilots to keep a personal logbook of their rest periods prior to a duty day. This is necessary to assure pilot crew doesn’t dead head in the day of their trips. Truckers do this now so this is logical for pilots too. It's all necessary to protect the public against those who abuse the trust placed in them by coming to work exhausted by travel. Unfortunately that is the norm now days. Commuting is a living hell for everyone but its the innocent public who has had paid the price for this state of the industry.

 

[tyuwerty]

Listen here commuters. We all know if airlines decide to fix commuting that they will do it by taking away the jump seat and travel bennies. They aren't going to tack on your commute to the duty day, pay you for the deadhead, or base you in San Diego because you like to surf on your days off.

Finally someone gets it..................

Look for more restrictions, because you won't be getting more benefits when it is all said and done.

With the stroke of a Legislator's pen, jumpseating is gone.

 

[doh]

I expect the FAA to be issuing an NPRM that will require Part 121/135 pilots to keep a personal logbook of their rest periods prior to a duty day. This is necessary to assure pilot crew doesn’t dead head in the day of their trips. Truckers do this now so this is logical for pilots too. It's all necessary to protect the public against those who abuse the trust placed in them by coming to work exhausted by travel. Unfortunately that is the norm now days. Commuting is a living hell for everyone but its the innocent public who has had paid the price for this state of the industry.

I am all for setting trucker rules for pilots! 12 hour max duty day and 12 hour min rest! Also, don't truckers have to keep a log for all their trips?

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Commuting sux but sometimes thats the only way to "make it work". Bases open and close and relative seniority goes up and down(who am I kidding it usually just goes down) with furloughs every 5 years. I hate commuting but it is essential. Companies may start trying to weed out the "potential commuters" in the hiring process. Hell they already do. But you seriously can't expect a guy to move into the first base you give to him. Its probably not his first choice. Especially if you offer a measly $16,700/year with no medical insurance, and 2 moving days. WE NEED THE NETJETS BASING SYSTEM. 100 CITIES TO CHOOSE FROM. Sure its expensive, but so is living in Jersey. I hope Netjets would consider interviewing me again.:bawling:

 

[buscap]

I wouldn't mind them putting restrictions on commuting, as long as they put restrictions on base closures. Let's see, management is obligated to but your house for it's appraised value. You get to pick the appraiser. Management has to pay for your move. Management has to compensate your spouse for loss of income and benefits, if any. My wife, for example, has a defined benefit pension. We move and management has to continue that. Then and only then can management dictate where and when we move.

Put down the pipe!!!

You'll flunk your next pee-test!!!

Good Lord people!!

Personal responsibility!!!

New words to everyone on this board. Look them up in the dictionary you immature whiners!!

If life is so miserable at the regionals, get out. Turn yourself into that perfect job candidate that your dream airline wants to hire. Don't bust any rides. Wear your hat. Get into the training department. Whatever it takes.

Do whatever it takes to get out of the minor leagues. Now after you've done all those things and you still can't get out, well then just suck it up and be the best darn regional pilot known to man. And maybe get involved in your union and do something about fixing these problems.

But no matter what, quit this freaki'n whining. The schedules, bases and pay were all known when we got into the industry. Can we all look in the mirror and say we did everthing possible to get hired at a major? Did we all get that 737 type?



People died because pilots didn't pilot.

Why aren't we reading posts about reforming our training programs? Perhaps making them harder? Maybe taking away the union's ability to protect dirtbags?

Funny how that one hasn't come up here.

 

[aeropharoh]

let them try to do away with commuting and we will have a real problem. IE pilot shortage and even sleepier pilots b/c now they are driving 4 hours before a trip to get there instead of flying 30 mins.

 

[dispatchguy]

Fix the fatigue problem
- Eliminate CDOs, nap trips, whatever you want to call them. If you leave the airport property, you are off duty; period. I think CDOs should be illegal.
- Make the 8 hours of "rest" 8 in the hotel, period. Non-negotiable.
- Personally, after 12-14 hours of duty, my brain is tired. I did a 20 hour day once working 121 dispatch (unscheduled, so it was legal), and my brain was so fried that driving home I didnt feel that safe; repetitive 16 hour dutys arent safe as well - but we all know that what is legal isnt necessarily safe.

Like others have said, this is the news cycle topic du jour, but once some stupid celebu-skank does something super stupid, we'll return to our regularly scheduled diet of junk-food-TV

And no, nothing will change.

 

[DX Rick]

I am all for setting trucker rules for pilots! 12 hour max duty day and 12 hour min rest! Also, don't truckers have to keep a log for all their trips?

Get real, truckers are truckers and we're Railway Laborers!

I don't see much coming of this either, but hopefully we can get a possitive space seat out of this.
If that were to happen, it would eliminate the crew member sitting in the terminal all day trying to catch a flight....or trying to comply with the commute clause in the contract.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I fully expect that a result of this will be a personal log of rest prior to any duty period. Rest will be defined to include no more than 2-hours of travel. This change will greatly improve a pilot's qualilty of life.

Once in the past the airlines maintained "dog houses" in the hangars for crews to sleep. They were actually quite nice with clean beds. Maybe the dog houses will make a comeback.

 

[DX Rick]

I fully expect that a result of this will be a personal log of rest prior to any duty period. Rest will be defined to include no more than 2-hours of travel. This change will greatly improve a pilot's qualilty of life.

Once in the past the airlines maintained "dog houses" in the hangars for crews to sleep. They were actually quite nice with clean beds. Maybe the dog houses will make a comeback.

Are you kidding me? Airlines won't even hand out crew meals, to keep turn times to a minimum. But they're going to set up beds with clean bedding for free?
I sleep in the crew room and been hearing how they're going to crack down on the guys sleeping in there. There are 10-15 pilots/FA's sleeping in there on a given night. They're not going to allow us to sleep on the couches that are already there, the company won't spend a dime on a beds.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Are you kidding me? Airlines won't even hand out crew meals, to keep turn times to a minimum. But they're going to set up beds with clean bedding for free?
I sleep in the crew room and been hearing how they're going to crack down on the guys sleeping in there. There are 10-15 pilots/FA's sleeping in there on a given night. They're not going to allow us to sleep on the couches that are already there, the company won't spend a dime on a beds.

You make a good point about the way things are now; and, now the result is known. We all tried to tell management that crew rest was a runaway freight train that could only result in disaster. I’m really surprised something like this hasn’t happened before to exhausted crews. The airlines have brought this accident on themselves by disincentives for crew rest. What is needed is FAA regulatory changes to be certain crews are well rested. Once this becomes law the associated expenses will be the same for all airlines, just like requiring radar, TCAS etc.

I hope the bean counters realize the result of their work and accept their rightful blame in this accident. .

 

[DX Rick]

You make a good point about the way things are now; and, now the result is known. We all tried to tell management that crew rest was a runaway freight train that could only result in disaster. I’m really surprised something like this hasn’t happened before to exhausted crews. The airlines have brought this accident on themselves by disincentives for crew rest. What is needed is FAA regulatory changes to be certain crews are well rested. Once this becomes law the associated expenses will be the same for all airlines, just like requiring radar, TCAS etc.

I hope the bean counters realize the result of their work and accept their rightful blame in this accident. .

It has happened before, but nothing was brought out of it.
The most recent time was the Corporate Express 5966 in Kirksville, MO.

The safety issues in this report focus on operational and human factors issues, including the pilots’ professionalism and sterile cockpit procedures, nonprecision instrument approach procedures, flight and duty time regulations, fatigue, and flight data/image recorder requirements.

The same can be said here. What they will do is kick the dead crew because they're not here to defend themselves and the airline (in their eyes) does everything to safest extent possible....Even the FAA says it's safe working 16 hours and only getting 8 hours of REST.
The airline will admitt no wrong doing, and the FAA will stand by it's regs, saying that it's adequate rest.
Duty time and rest has been the same since the late 60's. I don't think this is going to change it.
It's be nice though, some of the furloughed guys might be getting called back if they had to actually staff the airline properly.

 

[makersmarc]

5 characters

 

[doh]

Put down the pipe!!!

You'll flunk your next pee-test!!!

Good Lord people!!

Personal responsibility!!!

New words to everyone on this board. Look them up in the dictionary you immature whiners!!

If life is so miserable at the regionals, get out. Turn yourself into that perfect job candidate that your dream airline wants to hire. Don't bust any rides. Wear your hat. Get into the training department. Whatever it takes.

Do whatever it takes to get out of the minor leagues. Now after you've done all those things and you still can't get out, well then just suck it up and be the best darn regional pilot known to man. And maybe get involved in your union and do something about fixing these problems.

But no matter what, quit this freaki'n whining. The schedules, bases and pay were all known when we got into the industry. Can we all look in the mirror and say we did everthing possible to get hired at a major? Did we all get that 737 type?



People died because pilots didn't pilot.

Why aren't we reading posts about reforming our training programs? Perhaps making them harder? Maybe taking away the union's ability to protect dirtbags?

Funny how that one hasn't come up here.

I do have my dream job at Flexjet. The whole point of the "pilots didn't pilot" is fatigue. Fix that and the rest will follow.

As a side question, why didn't Colgan see that the captain had failed three PCs? Don't they do a PRIA?

 

[DX Rick]

As a side question, why didn't Colgan see that the captain had failed three PCs? Don't they do a PRIA?

Because in todays society no one fails anymore. No more "F's" are handed out, they're all "H's" for HELP.
And and GIA, NO ONE is a failure. They're ALL winners!

 

[doh]

I didn't realise he was GIA. There are too many threads out there to follow. I missed that.

 

[JA PILOT]

As far as I am concerned and in my opinion, Colgan management exploited and Murdered that girl and those passengers and it all cost them $16,0000 a year to do it.
Its a shame that America will never realize the truth until some of these executives heads start to roll.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Just move to your base. Or get a new job.