Commuting under attack because of crash

[DX Rick]

Just move to your base. Or get a new job.

And when your base is the most expensive place to live in the country?

 

[JA PILOT]

Bunkle,
You're a real tool. I hate to say it but that Q-400 should have fell down on top of you,but that would not have knocked some sense it your empty head.

 

[bailout]

Commuting is a PRIVELEDGE, not a RIGHT, or Luxury for that matter. Base closures, living in NYC, etc, are the nature of the business. If you cant handle the terms, then find another line of work. That being said, I completely understand why people commute, and Im glad that this industry offers them an opportunity to do it and that they can make it work, but don't think the airlines aren't going to fight a change to add commuting time to your duty day. If something comes of it, you can be sure EVERY line will start at 6am!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Because in todays society no one fails anymore. No more "F's" are handed out, they're all "H's" for HELP.
And and GIA, NO ONE is a failure. They're ALL winners!

We live in the land of the endless second chance.

BTW, what is GIA?

 

[makersmarc]

Commuting is a PRIVELEDGE, not a RIGHT, or Luxury for that matter. Base closures, living in NYC, etc, are the nature of the business. If you cant handle the terms, then find another line of work. That being said, I completely understand why people commute, and Im glad that this industry offers them an opportunity to do it and that they can make it work, but don't think the airlines aren't going to fight a change to add commuting time to your duty day. If something comes of it, you can be sure EVERY line will start at 6am!

I totally disagree. Commuting is an established common practice, and has been for at least 50 years. WE pilots are part of an itinerant workforce where base closings and reassignments are common. Add to that the fact that many of us have spouses with careers that can't be dumped at the whim of some stuffed shirt in airline management and you may get a glimpse of why some of us simply do not accept the way things are, and are working to change them.

I'm sorry but I do not accept your 'if you don't like it then get out' rationale. Not only that, but I'm going to do whatever I can to effect the necessary changes.

 

[Sig]

Add to that the fact that many of us have spouses with careers that can't be dumped at the whim of some stuffed shirt in airline management and you may get a glimpse of why some of us simply do not accept the way things are, and are working to change them.

Hear, hear! Amen. Then again, many a pilot couldn't get laid in a whorehouse with a handful of $100 bills.

Imagine having 15 years in a company with a family, and BANG! it all goes to feces. Sure! Let's crush the kids' lives, screw up the marriage even more, lose the comfy house and make a financially unreasonable move...

I'm sorry but I do not accept your 'if you don't like it then get out' rationale.

Much of the same type of arm's length analysis that occurs when a pilot is convinced another airline should go out of business, for the 'market's sake.' As long as it doesn't affect me, it is a character flaw in somebody else.

Not only that, but I'm going to do whatever I can to effect the necessary changes.

Outstanding.

 

[DX Rick]

I'm sorry but I do not accept your 'if you don't like it then get out' rationale. Not only that, but I'm going to do whatever I can to effect the necessary changes.

The guys who do accept it are company lap dogs.
They want anyone who is willing to eat a plate of sh*t burgers, without asking questions.

 

[DX Rick]

We live in the land of the endless second chance.

BTW, what is GIA?

Too bad no one on 3407 will be given a second chance.

GIA is Gulfstream, a Continental Connection carrier, where the FO's pay $30k a year to sit in the right seat of a BE1900 for a year.
Just ask PCL_128, he's their poster child.

 

[Sig]

The guys who do accept it are company lap dogs.
They want anyone who is willing to eat a plate of sh*t burgers, without asking questions.

Are you calling me a company lap dog? I do NOT commute. I moved. But it sure as hell doesn't mean I accept "it," whatever "it" is.

 

[DX Rick]

Are you calling me a company lap dog? I do NOT commute. I moved. But it sure as hell doesn't mean I accept "it," whatever "it" is.

Not what I ment.
I commute too, so relax.
I was refering to the guys who say "Like it or quit"....they're the company lap dogs.

 

[Sig]

Not what I ment.
I commute too, so relax.
I was refering to the guys who say "Like it or quit"....they're the company lap dogs.

I'm relaxed now.

That's exactly the explanation I needed, and thank you very much for it.

 

[Golden Falcon]

Did these people have any formal upset recovery training?

 

[Sig]

Did these people have any formal upset recovery training?

Formal upset recovery training can be a thousand things. Did AA have a rudder multiplet recovery scenario for the A300?

Did they see a stick push event and get training on that? I'm not a CJ pilot, but I doubt they did given the testimony. The task at hand now is to create a viable and legitimate training scenario- and legitimate training on it.

 

[SA227driver]

Those people died because of money. Why doesn't the q400 have autothrottles? Money. Why was the FO living with her parents? Probably money.
Commuting is not an option for many of us. I wouldn't be in this business if it weren't for my wife's income during all those years working for peanuts flying metros and brasilias in the right seat. What about all the military guys/gals that have to live near their unit and commute to their airline job? I know a few that would have stayed on active duty if they couldn't commute.
The bottom line is that we need commuters, without them the whole industry would collapse. Captain Sully is a commuter. How many pilots will subject their families to the financial, emotional, and social strain of moving every time a base closes or downsizes? Do we really want only those who are willing to jump at the whim of management to be airline pilots? If there is no commuting, we will no longer have the "best and brightest" in the cockpit. Rather, we will have the only butts available in the front seats.
If my regional airline would compensate me according to the responsibility that I have, I could replace my wife's income and I would gladly live in one of the available domiciles but until that happens, or we don't have the option, I'll commute.

 

[doh]

Just move to your base. Or get a new job.

Tool quote of the weak.

 

[deadstick]

Just move to your base. Or get a new job.

Commuting is a PRIVELEDGE, not a RIGHT, or Luxury for that matter. Base closures, living in NYC, etc, are the nature of the business. If you cant handle the terms, then find another line of work. That being said, I completely understand why people commute, and Im glad that this industry offers them an opportunity to do it and that they can make it work, but don't think the airlines aren't going to fight a change to add commuting time to your duty day. If something comes of it, you can be sure EVERY line will start at 6am!

I assume that Bunkle n Bail are both military types from their profiles. If so, don't be harsh --they cannot relate to this in their world of COLA, BAH, BAS. These are adjustments, the first two based on the duty station, to the service member's base pay. The BAH (housing) isn't taxed to boot.

An E-1 gets $1001/month BAH (w/o dependents) if assigned to northern NJ and living in the economy. That same E-1 is also earning $1399.50/month as a base pay, the BAS (food) is $323.87, and the COLA is a "5" so that's another $90/mo.

Aside from the whole military v. civilian job (Military Times is always comaring the pay scales afterall), this compares a E-1 to the pay of an FO. Apples-to-apples comparison might need the O-1 numbers, but these numbers illustrate the difference. That E-1 makes $2,814.37/mo, or $33,772.44/yr. I know the E-1 right out of AIT won't get assigned to northern NJ, but these are the numbers.

For the record, had those two not been so condesending, I wouldn't have either.

 

[ThisistheDream]

the FAA and airline cannot tell us how we spend are time off prior to a trip, with exceptions to drugs and alcohol. They only way the FAA and company can help reduce the amount of fatigue pilots can be dealt with is to shorten the maximum duty day. The way it is now a crew can report and 0800 and be duty until 1200 midnight!!! So the FAA says it is okay and safe for the crew to be worked that long is the issue creating tired pilots .. not commuting

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

the FAA and airline cannot tell us how we spend are time off prior to a trip, with exceptions to drugs and alcohol. They only way the FAA and company can help reduce the amount of fatigue pilots can be dealt with is to shorten the maximum duty day.

You are so wrong. They can easily draft a regulation requiring, say, 8 hours of "continuous rest" in the preceding 10 - 12 hours prior to the beginning of a "cycle of flights."

With those two terms defined, BOOM! That would limit commuting. It would be easy to do.

 

[lineflyer1]

Whether you drive a car, ride a motorcycle, walk or fly, commuting to work will just be considered part of the duty day and airlines will just have to give pilots positive space and pay us for it.

 

[buscap]

As far as I am concerned and in my opinion, Colgan management exploited and Murdered that girl and those passengers and it all cost them $16,0000 a year to do it.
Its a shame that America will never realize the truth until some of these executives heads start to roll.

While Colgan's culpability is apparent I believe it is minor in comparison to her actions. She failed in her duty to monitor the Captain and aircraft. Now, maybe she was slightly ill and tired, but knowing that, she should have been all that much more in the game.

That was most likely a lack of experience. She simply had not been scared out of her pants previously by similar circumstances. Great First Officers are quite often formed by some idiot in the left seat trying to kill them. It's a shame some folks find themselves flying as Captain in the right seat, without the pay, but that is the world we live in.

Now I really don't hold her as culpable as the Captain. He set the chatter-box inattentive tone in that cockpit. I've flown with him, he just had a different face and uniform. And I'm sure there has been a time when I should've seen him in the mirror.

I've flown with her too; same story though, different face and uniform.

The point of all this is to say; Colgan didn't commit murder, nor did the crew. There was negligence all around at varying degrees. Most of it fell on the Captain, in my opinion.

 

[tyuwerty]

Whether you drive a car, ride a motorcycle, walk or fly, commuting to work will just be considered part of the duty day and airlines will just have to give pilots positive space and pay us for it.

HAHAHAHHAHHAA ROTFLMFAO. Sorry that is not going to happen. Keep thinking positive though.

 

[DX Rick]

HAHAHAHHAHHAA ROTFLMFAO. Sorry that is not going to happen. Keep thinking positive though.

In the long run, I can see the positive spaced tickets. The company can use this against the pilots if they'd like.
Let's say you have a 9am departure tomorrow. They book you for the noon flight today....but there is a 3pm and a 5pm as well.
Well, they can book you for the noon flight, saying you're getting more than adequate rest and the 2 later flights aren't acceptable. If you chose to change flights, then you might be in the CPs office.

But they will never pay you for it. They will say the positive spaced ticket is compensation in itself.

 

[RJLoser]

NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. The dollar runs the show in this business and just as everything else in our industry this will be forgotten and pushed to the wayside. I hope to be wrong. I'm a 4 hr commuter. I would love to eat my words.

 

[VGerect]

That was most likely a lack of experience. She simply had not been scared out of her pants previously by similar circumstances. Great First Officers are quite often formed by some idiot in the left seat trying to kill them. It's a shame some folks find themselves flying as Captain in the right seat, without the pay, but that is the world we live in.

Man how true, I've seen it from both seats myself.

 

[DX Rick]

NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. The dollar runs the show in this business and just as everything else in our industry this will be forgotten and pushed to the wayside. I hope to be wrong. I'm a 4 hr commuter. I would love to eat my words.

I think the same way.
But the way the government loves to take over these days, I wouldn't be suprised.

 

[crashpad]

Commuting pilots who fly for commuter airlines cannot afford the luxury of jumpseating to work. Put safety first, ahead of the ideology that flying to work is a luxury. It is neither glamorous nor safe for a young pilot flying 6-8 legs over a 14-16 hour duty day to be jeapordizing public safety.
Tough decisions have to be made...make them for yourself or they'll have to be made for you.

 

[DX Rick]

Commuting pilots who fly for commuter airlines cannot afford the luxury of jumpseating to work. Put safety first, ahead of the ideology that flying to work is a luxury. It is neither glamorous nor safe for a young pilot flying 6-8 legs over a 14-16 hour duty day to be jeapordizing public safety.
Tough decisions have to be made...make them for yourself or they'll have to be made for you.

Yeah, because only mainline pilots are man enough to commute.
Boy, I can't wait until I get hired at a major. I've always waited for my nuts to drop!

 

[doh]

You are so wrong. They can easily draft a regulation requiring, say, 8 hours of "continuous rest" in the preceding 10 - 12 hours prior to the beginning of a "cycle of flights."

With those two terms defined, BOOM! That would limit commuting. It would be easy to do.

Don't they have to redefine rest? Rest is simply free from obligation to the company, isn't it? You can do what you want with your rest.

 

[ThisistheDream]

They cant tell you what to do on your off time..Do pilots with young kids get a nice quiet night of sleep. With a new born you might get maybe 5 or 6 hours of sleep, alot less than some long commuter flights. I guess the FAA will require pilots to stop having kids, so they can get sleep..they only way to get better rested pilots is to have shorter duty days//

 

[pilotyip]

Just worth reading twice!

We need to take personal responsibility. It's time we owned it!

We blame management, FAA, unions, Majors, regionals, LCCs, CAs, FOs, FAs, pax wanting to save money, PFT, low TT, training, my CFI, your CFI, turboprop and jets.......

How about we, pilots, Americans, people, begin to accept responsibilty. Take control of what we can do and stop expecting others to do it for us.

The FAA can't regulate stupidity, nor can any SOP. You can't write in common sense, someone will always find a way to f' it up! So do what you can to improve your training, skill level, profession. Don't give the FAA another excuse to write one more regulation, Sh!t! there are already enough of them!




eP.

Again a ray of reality in a sea of blame