Coming up on 94 hours of Standby for the Month.

[Ultra Grump]

Now that is super service!:nuts:

I aim to please.

 

[Fozzy]

Freight Dog hit it on the head. You are truely blessed to have a job at Netjets (if you can actually call what we do work). Instead of taking this to your scheduling committee (can't wait for our contract to standup our committees), you come here and accomplish what. You show the world that fractional guys are a bunch of pilots who are self indulgent, whiners. Yes, a whiner. You call standby at the FBO abuse. What are they abusing, your sense of entitlement. Well, fortunately most will recognize that you fall into what I call the 10% rule. What ever the situation, you can count on 10% of your population to be your whiners, gold brickers, and all around never happy with _________ (fill in the blank).

It is no wonder most pilots are treated and paid horribly.

Not work huh? You are killing me.

 

[xpdriver]

As I sit going a little more insane, I just wonder why can't I be at the hotel working out or relaxing? This is nuts, We have 7 a/c on stand by. Why? So that the pie graph they show at the end of the month shows that they used us? Gotta love the 10 hr turn(5am by the way) for a 7 hour show for a ferry flight. WTF!

you must be new....Lets go over this.....YOUR GETTING PAID TO SIT ON YOUR ASS....Are you wanting to build time to go to UAL? Then sit there and enjoy the rest time..

 

[LizardEyes]

Taken a little too serious

Fozzy, What we do is a profession, really not hard physical work. Take it for what it is. We make alot of difficult decisions every day and the consequences of a wrong or poor decision are very serious. Please take what I tried to say in context. We do need good contracts to avoid being exploited by management as just another commodity to manage. I agree that often we are our our worst enemies when it comes to compensation and work rules. I have a different opinion and weighed in over this subject because if you actually keep track of the number of hours you are on standby at the fbo that's really kinda funny.

 

[kman]

You guys are sick. Bunch of work a holics. You guys totalty missed my point. Have fun sitting standby for nothing guys.

 

[Pervis]

Kman, you miss the point. The fractional model means more earnings the less we fly in addition to sales. The customer pays a monthly management fee, and with less flying comes less expense to us.

I don't like sitting around doing nothing either, but the pay is the same. If you get tired of sitting, fatigue. That's why we have that policy.

 

[kman]

How many times have i stated have enough coverage for backup and any pop of trips, but when scheduling starts to get stupid with the backups and standby(numerous examples in which I have stated multiple times before) its time to start releasing crews for hotel standby.

Wow it seems like you guys don't even read through the whole thread. If we are going to continue this thread, please offer more than stop whining, idiot, STFU, get another job. I have already heard it, and its obvious it is not happening
(at least not right now).

 

[kman]

Kman, you miss the point. The fractional model means more earnings the less we fly in addition to sales. The customer pays a monthly management fee, and with less flying comes less expense to us.

I don't like sitting around doing nothing either, but the pay is the same. If you get tired of sitting, fatigue. That's why we have that policy.

Whats ur point? How does releasing excessive crews on standby, mess with the frac model?

 

[kman]

you must be new....Lets go over this.....YOUR GETTING PAID TO SIT ON YOUR ASS....Are you wanting to build time to go to UAL? Then sit there and enjoy the rest time..

Sure UAL IS MY ULTIMATE GOAL. How did you know I need to build so more time? Your sooo smart. You must be old here right? I get paid to do a job and I have my limits like we all should.

So sitting in an overcrowded fbo,is rest huh? Maybe on your next overnight give up your room and stay at the fbo, we will save tons of money and you will get plenty of rest.

Tell ya what, maybe we should change the regs so that if we have a recliner, tv, internet, cookies, popcorn, and a shower it shouldn't even be considered duty. how does that sound? We could be in conutious rest at any fbo they would never have to sale a trip off ever.

Look guys I had 6 days of sitting standby almost 12 hours a day. Was I fatigued? No. Was I going insane? YEs!

Let me ask you this is there a limit? They could sit us standby for 14 hours a day for 7 days right? Is it right to call in fatigued because your tired of doing standby but not physically fatigued? Where is your limit?

Do you even have one? Kept jumping down my throat guys guess I like it, cause I kept coming back for more.

 

[Pervis]

Whats ur point? How does releasing excessive crews on standby, mess with the frac model?

As a former leader said, it is what it is. Try and analyze scheduling and their reasons is not only foolish but a waste of time. In case you haven't figured it out yet, time on duty is far more important than productivity.

The fact is they own you for 14 hrs/day if there is a good crew and jet. Unless you are fatigued. Get over it, or volunteer/run for a committee and be proactive instead of bitching on a public forum.

 

[kman]

As a former leader said, it is what it is. Try and analyze scheduling and their reasons is not only foolish but a waste of time. In case you haven't figured it out yet, time on duty is far more important than productivity.

The fact is they own you for 14 hrs/day if there is a good crew and jet. Unless you are fatigued. Get over it, or volunteer/run for a committee and be proactive instead of bitching on a public forum.

You said I missed the point, what was the point? Again with the they own us cr@p, Its such a horrible why to look at work and that concept just brings down our profession. Do you really think they should be able to do anything they want to us, just because we are getting a check every two weeks?

And again with schd comm and reports, I did all that and what did i get in response? Nada. Please read the thread guys, you kept telling me to do stuff I already have. Also this is a public forum you act like i insulted your mothers. Every place has dirty laundry, why can't you just accept that?

 

[Ultra Grump]

Looks like that panty-unbuncher didn't work. :bawling:

 

[say again]

You guys sound like elementary school kids arguing over who has the better lunch. Let the guy rant, it's his right to. If you disagree, so be it. He has a very valid point, and it's sad that many of you don't see it. I guess it hurts that some people don't find NJ to be the almighty, God's gift to aviation jobs.

Productivity?? Not in this case. Sounds like it's actually anti-productive considering the way some feel. Why have an over abundance of crews all sitting airport stand-by??

Owning for 14 hrs.?? Not owning, but available. Slavery was abolished many years ago. Common sense goes a long way, and with a little use, can really improve things.

 

[realityman]

Sure UAL IS MY ULTIMATE GOAL. How did you know I need to build so more time? Your sooo smart. You must be old here right? I get paid to do a job and I have my limits like we all should.

So sitting in an overcrowded fbo,is rest huh? Maybe on your next overnight give up your room and stay at the fbo, we will save tons of money and you will get plenty of rest.

Tell ya what, maybe we should change the regs so that if we have a recliner, tv, internet, cookies, popcorn, and a shower it shouldn't even be considered duty. how does that sound? We could be in conutious rest at any fbo they would never have to sale a trip off ever.

Look guys I had 6 days of sitting standby almost 12 hours a day. Was I fatigued? No. Was I going insane? YEs!

Let me ask you this is there a limit? They could sit us standby for 14 hours a day for 7 days right? Is it right to call in fatigued because your tired of doing standby but not physically fatigued? Where is your limit?

Do you even have one? Kept jumping down my throat guys guess I like it, cause I kept coming back for more.

Now you're just being silly. Nobody suggested we volunteer to give up hotel standby when we have it. Nobody said that being in a very comfortably equipped FBO means it shouldn't be considered duty.

I am curious though, what fleet are you in? Maybe by switching fleets you'd have less FBO standby time. We actually don't do much of it in the X.

The funny thing is, we have people who fly 5 legs a day, and constantly put in 12 hour days for the entire tour and are complaining they're getting worked too hard. In fact, I believe the word 'abuse' has come up in relation to this situation also.

So if the company makes you sit at an FBO routinely they're abusing you. And if they make you fly a lot they're abusing you. There are definitely days where I read all this and am glad I'm not in management or union leadership trying to make the pilots happy.

But I'm nothing if not a bit dense. I guess I'm just not seeing the problem. You told me before that you don't consider this job a vacation. That being the case, I still don't see what difference it makes where you sit. They DON'T own you, but you are paid to do a job. That job includes sitting standby, wherever they decide you'll sit. If you get tired, wherever you're sitting, fatigue. Just because you can't go swimming or get a suntan doesn't mean you're being abused.

As for your comments about what is fatigue, well, fatigue can certainly be physical. But it's also mental. Look, if I just had 10 hours of sleep, am well fed, and haven't been working too hard, my body will probably be ready for 14 hours of sitting if need be. But what if I get a call from home saying a water line broke and flooded my house? Or that something terrible has happened to a loved one? My body is still fresh, but my mind will definitely not be focused on flying if they want me to go. That's mental fatigue, and is just as bad as physical fatigue. So yes, KMAN, if you're physically fine but mentally out of it from a long sit at the FBO then it's still a legitimate fatigue call.

And I repeat, I like the numbers matrix, if it exists. As long as it looks, on paper, like we're doing something then no one is going to want to trim the ranks. Even if scheduling doesn't mean to, they may be doing us a favor.

SAY AGAIN, Netjet's isn't God's gift to aviation. I am!! Seriously though, I'd be willing to bet you'd have a hard time finding a job, in flying, that's a whole lot better out there. There are a few, I'm sure, but not many. Look at the complaints on all these threads: crewfood, too much sitting, our hiring dept., etc....I guess it's a pretty good job when this is all we have to be upset about. Some folks on this board are overly proud, even arrogant, about Netjets. I'll give you that. I get tired of reading some of it too. But isn't it good to know there are some truly happy people out there with a job in aviation? It certainly beats reading about the furloughs and such.

 

[say again]

SAY AGAIN, Netjet's isn't God's gift to aviation. I am!! Seriously though, I'd be willing to bet you'd have a hard time finding a job, in flying, that's a whole lot better out there. There are a few, I'm sure, but not many. Look at the complaints on all these threads: crewfood, too much sitting, our hiring dept., etc....I guess it's a pretty good job when this is all we have to be upset about. Some folks on this board are overly proud, even arrogant, about Netjets. I'll give you that. I get tired of reading some of it too. But isn't it good to know there are some truly happy people out there with a job in aviation? It certainly beats reading about the furloughs and such.

Don't get me wrong, NJ is a great company. My point being is that some may not feel that way, and it seems people take it personally if someone has negative thoughts. If it's a legitimate gripe, listen to the guy. Maybe you could give him some positive advice to help him out, or some tricks to ease the situation. Trust me, I have plenty of friends at NJ and would say 95% are happy as can be. The other 5% realized it's not for them. Are they gonna leave? It doesn't seem so. It's very stable right now, pay is decent, and where would they leave to now anyways? I love hearing people being very happy (makes for a more pleasant, interesting conversation), myself included-non NJ BTW.

 

[Smoke]

How many times have i stated have enough coverage for backup and any pop of trips, but when scheduling starts to get stupid with the backups and standby(numerous examples in which I have stated multiple times before) its time to start releasing crews for hotel standby.

Wow it seems like you guys don't even read through the whole thread. If we are going to continue this thread, please offer more than stop whining, idiot, STFU, get another job. I have already heard it, and its obvious it is not happening
(at least not right now).

First off let me start by saying I work in the scheduling department. Our department has done a lot over the past few months to try to help you guys out. We have made a concretive effort to send guys home a day or two early when we can. Every Friday I personally send 20 or so crew members home at least a day early.

Secondly we also have made a concretive effort to put crewmembers on at the hotel if they don't have anything to do. Now granted, not everyone gets a hotel show, but we are looking at some 400 aircraft and probably 800 some pilots. We do make mistakes. If you think you are being put on at the FBO with other crews call in and see if you can go to the hotel. 9 time out of 10 we'll send you. And if we don’t, don’t take it personally, we are trying our best and are looking at the big picture.

A perfect example of this came a few weeks ago. We had an owner who wanted to go LAS-TEB departing at 2 am. We pulled 3 crews on to do the trip, all of which called in fatigued. Which I don’t blame one bit, but that is why we need to have crew on at strange hours at the FBO. We need to do our best to cover the trips as schedule. It was a very high profile owner who was sold to a subcontract (40K)

We really do try our best. If you have a problem with it please take it up with your Union. We are not out to screw you, we are not out to make your life miserable. We are just trying to cover our trips.

I invite anyone to stop by CMH and see how we operate. I have sat with pilots and shown them what we do. Everyone of them have said that they have learned something about us and how we do things. I think there is a lot of misinformation going around these boards. So again, please stop by, we would love to show you what we do. And if the company would let me, I would love to fly a few days with you guys to “walk a mile in your shoes.”

 

[jenex]

Wow, Thats amazing to me that out of three crews, not one of them would fly the trip. Redeyes suck, but they are part of the job!

 

[Diesel]

So does jumping to conclusions

 

[kman]

my conversation with the pm:

10 turn for standby, for a 3:35am show.
​

Me:Any chance we can get any hotel show tomorrow?
PM:Hang on
PM:No, you have a good airplane.
ME:Are we backing anybody up?
PM:No.
ME:Are the any other crews sitting?
PM:Yes, several.
PM: I really don't know why there sending all you guys that early, nothings really going on tomorrow and its pretty light.
ME:Thanks for trying.

 

[fischman]

my conversation with the pm:

10 turn for standby, for a 3:35am show.​

Me:Any chance we can get any hotel show tomorrow?
PM:Hang on
PM:No, you have a good airplane.
ME:Are we backing anybody up?
PM:No.
ME:Are the any other crews sitting?
PM:Yes, several.
PM: I really don't know why there sending all you guys that early, nothings really going on tomorrow and its pretty light.
ME:Thanks for trying. You'll be hearing from a Steward.

I added a statement for the next time that happens to you.