Come to recurrent armed?

[Max Q]

Guns are great, when they are employed by trained and proficient professionals in their tactical use. [So I should hire a trained and proficient professional to follow me every time I want to go to the ATM? Or are you just saying I should wait until I've been mugged at the ATM before I decide to employ a trained and proficient professional?]

Anything else is just amateur hour. [So an individual with years of experience with firearms safety (and abiding by the law), has demonstrated to a trained and proficient professional that he/she can properly assess risk, and can responsibly own and operate a firearm is an "amateur"?]

I suppose there is some deterrent value to open carry, [but you specifically just said (and I quote), "Anything else is just amateur hour".]

but that is highly debatable. [Show me facts that it is highly debatable, you seem to be quite the expert. Actually, I have some facts for you. Take a gander at page 63 Figure 3.7 of this document and try to guess what happened in 1997.]

At any rate, I don't care if you can shoot the hell out of a paper target or clay pigeon or Bambi with your scope, it is not the same as effective combat or tactical training. [Right, that's all CCW requires of you... demonstrate the ability to knock off deer on a salt lick from a tree stand in your front yard.]

-Brett

 

[chignutsak]

-Brett

To your assertion : So I should hire a trained and proficient professional to follow me every time I want to go to the ATM? Or are you just saying I should wait until I've been mugged at the ATM before I decide to employ a trained and proficient professional?

You are being ridiculous. Don't go to the frakkin ATM in a crappy neighborhood period, packing or not! Plan ahead a little better, or go ahead and carry, thump your chest, and tempt fate. I'll say something equally ludicrous: Tell your widow to put on your tombstone, "but he carried".

To your assertion that: So an individual with years of experience with firearms safety (and abiding by the law), has demonstrated to a trained and proficient professional that he/she can properly assess risk, and can responsibly own and operate a firearm is an "amateur"? The answer is yes. If some guy operates a C-152 on the weekends with "years of experience with flying safety, abiding by the FAR's, having already demonstrated to an examiner that he can safely operate said 152, he is still an amateur. He does not fly for a living. He is not a professional pilot. Operating an auto safely and within the law does not make me a professional race car driver, either.

To your point about open carry: Open carry, performed by amateurs, IS amateur hour. Quote me again. I don't mind. Go ahead and open carry to your next recurrent or next ATM visit in the hood. Have a blast, Wyatt.

 

[FishandFly]

chig
1. Are you saying crime only happens in bad neighborhoods, and that not going to these particular atm's ensures that you are safe?

2. Technically speaking, are you comparing the time, effort and training that is required to become a professional pilot with the time, effort and training that is required to safely and effectively defend yourself with a weapon?

3. Thank goodness you were not this ladies friend. A real friend of hers told her point at the bad guy and pull the trigger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkS8mdbml0A

Have you ever fired a weapon? Do you realize that police officers firearms training is as little as a week? Do you realize that your being an airline pilot and an American almost guarantees that you too could be an effective gun carrying citizen of the USA? I would be willing to bet that after a few good times at the range you would fair quite well defending yourself. This ain't no cat 2.

 

[Max Q]

To your assertion : So I should hire a trained and proficient professional to follow me every time I want to go to the ATM? Or are you just saying I should wait until I've been mugged at the ATM before I decide to employ a trained and proficient professional?

You are being ridiculous. Don't go to the frakkin ATM in a crappy neighborhood period, packing or not! Plan ahead a little better, or go ahead and carry, thump your chest, and tempt fate. I'll say something equally ludicrous: Tell your widow to put on your tombstone, "but he carried".

To your assertion that: So an individual with years of experience with firearms safety (and abiding by the law), has demonstrated to a trained and proficient professional that he/she can properly assess risk, and can responsibly own and operate a firearm is an "amateur"? The answer is yes. If some guy operates a C-152 on the weekends with "years of experience with flying safety, abiding by the FAR's, having already demonstrated to an examiner that he can safely operate said 152, he is still an amateur. He does not fly for a living. He is not a professional pilot. Operating an auto safely and within the law does not make me a professional race car driver, either.

To your point about open carry: Open carry, performed by amateurs, IS amateur hour. Quote me again. I don't mind. Go ahead and open carry to your next recurrent or next ATM visit in the hood. Have a blast, Wyatt.

Okay, so those who choose to make a career out of law enforcement are the only ones skilled and capable enough to responsibly own and operate a firearm? Do I understand you correctly? Also, only ATM's in "the hood" are targeted by criminals?

I have a plan. Search this entire thread and provide the exact quote where I said that it was okay to carry to RGT.

 

[rausda27]

Firearms are not allowed on FSI property.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Firearms are not allowed on FSI property.

So an "open carry" Yugo M70AB2 would be out of the question?

Works when I go tho the ATM

 

[BoilerUP]

I'd bet a c-note that the average CCDW permit holder gets more practice and is more accurate with their weapon of choice than the average police officer with their service weapon.

Remember when it took four of NYPD's finest 41 shots (only 19 of which were hits) to kill an unarmed Amadou Diallo?

 

[stupidpilot]

If somebody's dumb enough to break into a regional pilot's car then they have no idea what they make. Just leave a note on your window that shows the salary of the average commuter pilot and the salary of a fry cook at Burger King. Chances are he'll move elsewhere.

 

[JumpersAway]

I've been making alot of stupid points here out of humor, however, I truthfully applaud those that carry. However, I don't think I should- knowing myself, I'd be too apt to weed out the gene pool.

However, I will say that a decent amount of common sense goes along way. For those that REALLY want to tote a piece and look for some excuse to use it- go for a walk in College Park alone, at 2am. However, I'm just saying that I don't really see the need to pack if you go to Flight Safety. Honestly, that seems more than a little over the top to me. I certainly wouldn't venture much beyond the parking lot though, especially late at night.

 

[regionaltard]

If somebody is breaking into your car i.e. burglary it is legal in most states that have CCW laws to stop that person from burglarizing your car. If you try to stop that person(which ya should) and they come at you then it is legal and justifiable for you to shoot them.

Your statement is almost unbelievably ignorant. Even in a state where you have no duty to retreat, the first question that you will be asked after a shooting is what steps you took to avoid the confrontation. Walking up to a guy tossing your car isn't going to cut it anywhere when it comes time to explain that you used a firearm as a last resort. Even if you escape criminal charges, every dead crackhead out there has a relative who'll find a scumbag lawyer to bleed you dry in civil court.

 

[kf4amu]

Your statement is almost unbelievably ignorant. Even in a state where you have no duty to retreat, the first question that you will be asked after a shooting is what steps you took to avoid the confrontation.

Duty to retreat includes avoiding a confrontation. So, if you do not have a duty to retreat and you are justified in defending your property, the escalation to use of your firearm is also legally justified.

You're right about the civil suit though, that right there is the biggest reason I keep my gun out of situations even where it's legally justified.

As a regional FO, if somoene is breaking into your car and you are not sucking the teets of your parents, you probably have nothing of value, so is it worth it to confront him and escalate it to use of a firearm? Absolutely not. Even though he would deserve 2 to the chest, it's not smart.

 

[rjacobs]

Your statement is almost unbelievably ignorant. Even in a state where you have no duty to retreat, the first question that you will be asked after a shooting is what steps you took to avoid the confrontation. Walking up to a guy tossing your car isn't going to cut it anywhere when it comes time to explain that you used a firearm as a last resort. Even if you escape criminal charges, every dead crackhead out there has a relative who'll find a scumbag lawyer to bleed you dry in civil court.

You have zero clue how most law's are or have been interpreted. It is legal in almost every CCW state to defend your property from burglary with up to and including lethal force, no need to retreat. If I want to go up to and find out what is going on to my property, I can do that, in my state. This protects you from criminal charges. However just like if you are in a justifiable shooting defending your life that somebody can sue you in the civil realm. This is not debatable and I agree with you on that point. Most of the time though if the shooting was justified in the criminal realm, the civil lawsuit will be kicked by the courts as well.

This is not to say I am going to go up to the guy breaking into my car with my gun drawn, but I sure as hell am going to go up to and try to get the guy to stop. It is what happens after that that determines if my gun comes out or not. If the guy tries to attack me, gun comes out. If the guy runs off, gun does not come out. That is the difference. I am not a wacko carrying a gun because I want to be a cop. However, I know the law extremely well as well as lots of different situations and how to handle them. I know the principals of escalation and de-escalation. I also know I do not have to attempt to de-escalate or retreat, legally, where I live, however a smart man knows that they should try to attempt to de-escalate or retreat from a situation before going to the use of lethal force scenario.

 

[asurjc]

Do you park in Lot S regularly? If you do, why not just park over there, exit at the cheese grater at the northwest corner of the lot, and make the 3 minute walk over to FSI? Might be easier than trying to find the legal loophole in asa/fsi policy that allows you to carry. I myself never had a problem whilst living at the roof, or parking at FSI, but then again I drove a cheap a$$ car and went to great lengths to ensure that absolutely nothing was visible through the windows. In the city where I used to work, people would break into your car just for the spare change that was visible in your cupholder.

 

[007]

I say take your damn gun, but after your termination let us know how safe you feel now living in that neighborhood.

 

[CFI2766]

I would much rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

My question wasn't whether it was legal per Georgia law to carry a handgun to a place of work; generally it is. My question was whether or not it was against company policy; it is. Therefore, the amount of time and effort that I've spent to get to this point in my career far outweighs any material possession that I might bring with me to recurrent training.

I'm not seeking a violent end to a criminal to protect my 'stuff'.

However, there is a realistic chance that any confrontation with a criminal in the act of committing a crime against my property could escalate into a life or death situation. To think otherwise, even during daylight hours in front of an active business, is simply naive.

With regard to the professional vs. amateur discussion: I've got a nice C note myself that says I'm more than adequate in my abilities with a handgun to defend myself, even though I'm not currently a professional law enforcement officer.

 

[regionaltard]

Most of the time though if the shooting was justified in the criminal realm, the civil lawsuit will be kicked by the courts as well.

Keep telling yourself that and I'm sure that everything will be OK.

 

[timmay]

Duty to retreat includes avoiding a confrontation. So, if you do not have a duty to retreat and you are justified in defending your property, the escalation to use of your firearm is also legally justified.

You're right about the civil suit though, that right there is the biggest reason I keep my gun out of situations even where it's legally justified.

As a regional FO, if somoene is breaking into your car and you are not sucking the teets of your parents, you probably have nothing of value, so is it worth it to confront him and escalate it to use of a firearm? Absolutely not. Even though he would deserve 2 to the chest, it's not smart.

Sounds like you live in Texas where gun laws are rather lax, however most states require that your life be in danger prior to using deadly force. Going after a car thief with a firearm is just stupid.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Dont forget about the GPS mount suction cup rings on your windshield.

A dead givaway.

Maybe the "pry it out of my cold dead hands" sticker would invite a break in?

 

[CFI2766]

Sounds like you live in Texas where gun laws are rather lax, however most states require that your life be in danger prior to using deadly force. Going after a car thief with a firearm is just stupid.

Swing and a miss.

Not so much in Georgia. Google up on the Georgia 'Right to Kill' law.

http://www.wrdw.com/home/headlines/2397441.html

et al.

If you have a reasonable threat to your life or your property, you may use deadly force.

For the naysayers who whined loudly when this bill was passed...no noticeable increase in violence has been recorded.

Considering the differences between what I had to do to get a concealed carry permit in Georgia, and what my friends in Texas have to do, you could make a sound argument that Georgia is more pro gun than Texas.

Just sayin'.

 

[FishandFly]

Swing and a miss.

Not so much in Georgia. Google up on the Georgia 'Right to Kill' law.

http://www.wrdw.com/home/headlines/2397441.html

et al.

If you have a reasonable threat to your life or your property, you may use deadly force.

For the naysayers who whined loudly when this bill was passed...no noticeable increase in violence has been recorded.

Considering the differences between what I had to do to get a concealed carry permit in Georgia, and what my friends in Texas have to do, you could make a sound argument that Georgia is more pro gun than Texas.

Just sayin'.

I bet this is the one law that a number of criminals have memorized. Knowing that you can be shot legally the moment you start doing your job must really suck.