Comair's got a T.A.

[michael707767]

No need to dangle anything in front of us. They have federal law backing them to force concessions. We WILL be taking concessions one way or another thanks to the bankruptcy judge.

no doubt. But I think its a grey area as to how long an imposed deal lasts once you exit BK. I mean, do you immediately start negotiating a new deal? I think the company can impose pay rates/work rules, etc, but they cannot impose a time frame for the contract. It's to CMRs advantage to negotiate a deal and have things locked down for the next 3-4 years. Otherwise, why would they ever negotiate? If there was no downside to imposing a contract, none of the BK carriers would have reached a negotiated deal.

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

no doubt. But I think its a grey area as to how long an imposed deal lasts once you exit BK. I mean, do you immediately start negotiating a new deal? I think the company can impose pay rates/work rules, etc, but they cannot impose a time frame for the contract. It's to CMRs advantage to negotiate a deal and have things locked down for the next 3-4 years. Otherwise, why would they ever negotiate? If there was no downside to imposing a contract, none of the BK carriers would have reached a negotiated deal.

Agreed...So why would our union even want to negotiate anything at this point? Why not prepare for day one after bankruptcy?

 

[thebest]

What happened to the bar all the comair folks where talking about? Go alpa?

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

What happened to the bar all the comair folks where talking about? Go alpa?

It will have to be set by someone else for a while. One thing I know for sure, it will never be set by Skywest or any other nonunion pilot group.

 

[737Longhorn]

Until a pilot group actually strikes and defies a judge, we have no negotiating power and the airline knows that.

I've read some alot of retarded, mindless, stupid $hit on this board but this one has definately made it into my Top 5.

 

[30West]

Guys , I know it's easy for me to sit here at ASA where my job isn't being threatened (yet!) and armchair quarterback, but if this TA takes you to the bottom of the regional payscale, tell them to stuff it. Now that airlines are hurting for pilots, if you sign a crap contract, you won't be able to attract pilots and Comair will die anyway.

Unfortunately there will always be someone who will fly for less......

 

[ReverseSensing]

Until a pilot group actually strikes and defies a judge, we have no negotiating power and the airline knows that.

I've read some alot of retarded, mindless, stupid $hit on this board but this one has definately made it into my Top 5.

You've made 9 posts in a year, and this is the best you could come up with? You're not really paying attention, are you?

Oh, and next time you want to bitch about someone else's "retarded, mindless, stupid $hit" you might want to try not to sound so retarded, mindless and stupid yourself.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I just talked to a friend who interviewed. He said they told him Comair was getting -900s. In my opinion, it's disingenuous to tell new hires that, as that information is unknowable except for the executives who make those decisions at Delta, and I don't think they are sharing that information with Comair HR.

On Wednesday, a bankruptcy judge allowed Delta to buy 30 CRJ900 jets in a deal valued as much as $1.1 billion.
The Atlanta-based airline also took options on an additional 30 jets. If the options are exercised, the value of the deal could rise to $2.3 billion.
"The acquisition of these aircraft will help Delta meet its network and operational needs for 2007 and 2008, allowing us to continue providing convenient service to the places where customers most want to travel," said Shawn Anderson, Delta's vice president of Delta Connection.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5199142

 

[uba757]

At my interview in 2005 we were told we were getting E-170's. Airlines do this all the time. UBA757

 

[michael707767]

Agreed...So why would our union even want to negotiate anything at this point? Why not prepare for day one after bankruptcy?

This close to exiting BK, I tend to agree with you. Of course, that is something the pilot group can address in the ratification vote.

 

[Buddro]

I just talked to a friend who interviewed. He said they told him Comair was getting -900s. In my opinion, it's disingenuous to tell new hires that, as that information is unknowable except for the executives who make those decisions at Delta, and I don't think they are sharing that information with Comair HR. Comair may or may not get more airplanes, but you can't say everything will be rosy when you just don't know.

When I interviewed over 4 years ago, they told our interview group that we would all be captains within 2 years. I only stuck it out three years, guess what......I would still be a FO just barely off reserve in CVG (That's right a 4 year FO just barely off reserve in CVG).

The HR Folks are sales people, they tell you what you wanna hear. Just read the news and USE COMMON SENSE. Comair will NEVER be what it was. The only upgrades are coming from ATTRITION. That's right folks, people are bailing FAST. Somewhere to the tune of 2 pilots/1 FA per day.

DREWBLOWS this is not directed towards you, just in reply to what you said....No offense intended.

 

[172driver]

My guess on the TA...they sweetened the rates a percent or two and threw in some "guaranteed" airframes. JC will spin it to the effect of, "we have negotiated a mutually acceptable agreement at last, with job protection for all." I hope the CMR group stands strong, vote this thing down, and recalls the MEC.

Before you go saying, "but we don't even know what the TA says yet," think about it. It's not going to be good. It will be better than previous offers, but much less than the current contract.

 

[staylow]

OUCH!...here's that bar...oh my aching...

What happened to the bar all the comair folks where talking about? Go alpa?

I have no idea why anyone would vote yes to a TA that the union brings to the pilot group. Anyone who has seen the "changes to the contract" to be implemented by the company (Soaper's crap) should know that after the recent ruling by Judge Hardin the union has lost most, if not all of it's negotiating power. So what could they have improved? I supect nothing but being able to keep the "upsides" the company is threatening to have the courts take away. ("Upsides" is a loose term used by those it might benefit. For everyone else "more crap" works better.) I believe that crook Hardin would and will take the "upsides" if he gets the opportunity.

Here's my big delima. Voting yes to the TA without a work rules/pay freeze or work rules/pay raise is a huge dis-service to the folks who walk the line for 89 days in 2001. Life at Comair has really sucked for the last two-and-one-half years and now we are going to be given an opportunity to vote on another sucky 4 to 6 years...plus the additional 3 to 4 years to re-negotiate a new contract. So vote yes to the TA and spend the next 7 to 10 years regretting the vote. I'm not 100% sure but the other option is to vote no and suck it up for 2 years when the company has to re-negotiate the terms they implemented during the 1113(c) procedures. So 2 years plus 3 to 4 years to re-negotiate...5 to 6 years is better than 7 to 10 years. Either way life here at Comair is going to blow for a long time. Please pass the Kool Aid...

If anyone knows anything about the 24 month limit to terms implemented during the 1113(c); I would love to know what they are.

 

[SiuDude]

Good luck guys, Hopefully we can give you your 70's back now since I'm sure we'll be the over paid ones in this marriage.

ASA is picking up 2 more 700's tomorrow from RFD.

 

[Skippy]

Ill just ask what others are thinking:


1. Someone please explain to me why the hell are you in concessionary talks with your carrier. Correct me if im wrong , but you just recently made money in the fourth quarter ( about 50 million or so), arguably the most difficult quarter to do so. So in my thoughts, concessions arent necessary. Moving on...

2. Why doesnt JC put in a rider in the TA that states, after the concession ( we all know it is one) that any mgmt bonus or item seen that way, will make this agreement null and void or kick back the rates on whatever concession you just agreed to. In fact, penalize the company for doing so.

3. There are ways to combat this, you just have to stand strong. Just becuase you have a TA doesnt mean SCHIT! You can still vote it down and go back to the drawing board, wait for them to exit bankruptcy , or get everyone together and massively resign to get the point across. The judge said it best, resigning is not seen as a work action.

Our pilot group, my self as long as the remaining regionals want not only the best for you but the industry as a whole.

SKIPPY

 

[DirkkDiggler]

1. Someone please explain to me why the hell are you in concessionary talks with your carrier. Correct me if im wrong , but you just recently made money in the fourth quarter ( about 50 million or so), arguably the most difficult quarter to do so. So in my thoughts, concessions arent necessary. Moving on...

Probably because a bankruptcy judge has already authorized the company to impose pay cuts on them.

 

[Skippy]

Yes but they dont have the balls to do so! To my knowledge it hasnt been done by a company. Why? becuase they dont wish to go into uncharted territory! They can get all the legal rulings they want, enforcing them without consequences is another.

dealines dont mean crap to airlines, when was the last time they made one?
Its merely tactical. As in look what we can do. It's a mere bluff and they dont have the balls to see it thru.

I agree wholeheartedly about the disservice to the striking people. You fought so hard to get what you deserved and what other regionals strived to attain, that to not do it again, is just sad. I understand the whole providing for the family etc, but if 50%, even 30%, said we resign, it would be impossible for comair to function and bring the momentum back in your favor.
And the kicker, its all legal. Theres no way an airline would allow that to happen and put all its employees out of work, let alone themselves. Also you put a rider in the newly revised TA that states the resignations from the following people or dates will not be accepted and everyone back to work as normal. no harm , no foul. Anyway thats how i would play it, but i like to chance things and push the envelope.

I also agree that Just about anything brought back to the pilot group should almost always be voted down and tweaked before agreeing to it-- the same tactic the mgmt uses.

 

[michael707767]

Yes but they dont have the balls to do so! To my knowledge it hasnt been done by a company. Why? becuase they dont wish to go into uncharted territory!

he has a very good point. Has any airline that got the authority to impose terms actually done it?

 

[imacdog]

Didn't Northwest with their FAs?

 

[DrewBlows]

It's not uncharted territory, Northwest imposed terms on their Flight Attendants. They (NWA FAs) decided that what the company was offering wasn't better than continuing the legal process. Apparently Comair's ALPA negotiating commitee has decided that what the company is offering is better than continuing the legal process.

Since I haven't seen the TA (and I doubt anyone else posting here has either), I'm going to hold judgement.


Skippy, if you start a fund to reimburse every Comair pilot who quits. I'll turn in my two weeks notice tomorrow. If you don't want to do that, I invite you to quit your job as it would be "good for the industry".