Comair vs. ACA

[Anaconda]

My freinds at CMR also tell me that some of CMR's 11 off minimum that you can be called out. Sounds like reserve to me.

Oh, BTW, Anaconda...didn't I tell you about 2 months ago to get that army stuff off your profile? Jarheads rule! LOL

i think what your friends at comair meant is that four of your 11 days off are "movable" days off that can be shifted by the company. you can't be called out on a day off.

12% of $34.54 (2nd yr FO pay) would be 4.15...which is more than the difference between that pay scale and 2nd year 70-seater pay. not by much, but i'm tired of hearing that it's 12%...

spent the last three weeks in sim tng and one thing i can say is that the sim instructors know absolutely nothing more than anyone else when it comes to this industry...i got so sick of listing to their b.s. in the breakroom i would have to get up and leave...

as for the marines, well, i told you my impression of quantico back then as well, so i'll be leaving my army profile up...

 

[Caveman]

Anaconda allow me a small clarification of the moveable days off. This applies only to pilots on reserve. What a regular line holder is awarded for days off does not change unless you are junior manned. I know you know that but the way your post was written it could be misunderstood. Cheers...

 

[acaTerry]

I stand Corrected

Yes, I got it a bit mixed up there about the CRJ 70 mseat rates.
I still think AFELLOWAVIATOR is bitter and isolated however.

Anaconda, hope you get to keep flying people instead of heading off somewhere where you are being shot at!

 

[RJPilott]

For the record,

calling AFELLOWAVIATOR a moron was not based soley on his first post in this thread. Some of you that have more time than me to browse these boards can do a search for many of his posts. Not only will you find name calling but many contradictions in his "FACTS" only to go on to state "Its my opinion"

Truthfully? i think the guy needs to see a shrink...lol



too funny...

I also find it hard to believe he is who he says he is. Im guessing MAYBE, at the most, a second yr FO at Comair (but im also thinking someone fresh out of IOE). Not many 8 year (let alone 4 or 5 yr) pilots at Comair are so gung ho about the company as he is. Most pilots that were there before Delta bought them, then during the strike, would not have his stance on the issues he feels so strongly about (and then go on to contradict himself).

and thats all i have to say about that... (yes, this is from a movie too Afellowaviator... lol is this guy serious?)

 

[goodpilotithink]

I am pretty sure I know afellowaviator. I will see if it is who I think it is when I go to work tonite.

Actually, he could be a little more tactful, but most of what he says about Comair pilots feelings on the contract carriers is right on.

No one at Comair hates you guys, we would just rather all the feeder flying be done in house. I too have heard from a lot of sources that Delta plans on doing it all in house, but that ia more than a few years away. In the mean time we all need to work together as if you were in house.

 

[Anaconda]

I also find it hard to believe he is who he says he is. Im guessing MAYBE, at the most, a second yr FO at Comair (but im also thinking someone fresh out of IOE). Not many 8 year (let alone 4 or 5 yr) pilots at Comair are so gung ho about the company as he is. Most pilots that were there before Delta bought them, then during the strike, would not have his stance on the issues he feels so strongly about (and then go on to contradict himself).

respectfully i would have to disagree with you. i run across pilots on a daily basis that feel exactly as he does...both senior and junior...

 

[acaTerry]

Someone about 6 or so posts ago made a good point. It is OK for the likes of AFELLOWAVIATOR to hate the contract pilots, but it was good enough for THEM to be contract pilots a few years ago. And back then it was the mainline guys who were the bad ones because the mainline had bitter feelings toward the CMR guys. Well, now the shoe is on the other foot and they know what the mainline guys feel like.
This is what I love about this airline stuff, everyone hates somebody. Come on y'all, enough bashing eachother. We're all in the same boat one way or the other.

 

[j41driver]

Originally posted by treetop
Where do you want to live?

ACA has more pilot bases than Comair...I can't remember them all...maybe a Blue Ridger could chime in here. I think they are: BOS, LGA, DCA, ORD & CVG.

Close but no cigar...the ACA domiciles are BOS, ORD, CVG, and IAD. LGA is currently a base but will be closing as of 11/01/02. IAD (CRJ and J41) and ORD(CRJ only) are United Express and CVG & BOS (328Jet) are the Delta Connection bases.

 

[wafu39]

So what your'e saying moron-oops! Imean fellowaviator.
Is that only Comair pilots have a right to a good career and to hell with all the other regionals.

You're a hell of a guy!

You talk of how unpopular the "contract" pilots are, but not at all about how you and your airline are stealing jobs from mainline Delta pilots.

Just because Delta owns you does not make a Delta pilot-check your pay stub.

It wasn't all that long ago that Comair was a contract carrier so get over it!

It amazes me that you talk down to pilots at other regionals as if you were a mainline pilot -YOUR'E NOT.(and with your bad attitude I doubt you ever will be)

ACA is the best regional in the country, period!

As for being treated rudely, I think you deserve every insult you've received in response to your insulting and self righteous posts.

 

[sligo1]

Comair or ACA

HEY CAVEMAN
YOUR OPINION SEEMS TO FOLLOW ALONG WITH THAT OF YOUR CO WORKER FELLOWAVIATOR AT COMAIR. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT BEING A FORMER MARINE AVIATOR, I WOULD'NT WANT THAT GUY ANY WHERE NEAR ME IN EITHER A FOXHOLE OR AS A WINGMAN. THIS GUY IS A LOOSE CANNON WITH PROBALLY LITTLE OR NO EXPERIENCE IN THE REAL WORLD. IF ALL YOU GUYS CAN DO IS TRY TO DEFEND YOUR OPINION AGAINST SO CALLED CONTRACT PILOTS ( ACA), THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE WAY TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS. LET ME TELL YOU THESE DAYS ALL PILOTS WHETHER MAJORS, REGIONALS, CORPORATE, ETC. ARE JUST LUCKY TO BE FLYING, AND SHOULD STICK TOGETHER. NONE OF US NO WHERE WE'LL BE TOMMOROW OR SIX MONTHS FROM NOW-HOPFULLY I'LL BE BACK IN MY JOB WITH A MAJOR AND YOU'LL BE FLYING THE LINE AT DAL ( ALTHOUGH YOUR BUDDY FELLOW AVIATOR WON'T EVEN MAKE IT THROUGH THE INITIAL INTERVIEW WITH HIS ATTITUDE). DON'T GET SO HYPED UP ON THE BEING PART OF DELTA THING BECAUSE BELIEVE ME THAT BIG CONTRACT AND THE SOUR NEGOTIATIONS CAN COME BACK TO BITE YOU GUYS IN THE A**. GOOD LUCK AND SEMPER FI, MEANWHILE I'LL TAKE MY JOB AT ACA AND BE VERY HAPPY

 

[goodpilotithink]

I do not understand all the hostility. AFELLOWAVIATOR is actually right. I run into pilots at Comair every day with his same opinion.

Like I sad, we do not hate you guys, we just want the flying to be done in house. That is no different than any other pilot group. Who knows, maybe Delta will buy you guys one day and we will be part of the same team.

 

[Caveman]

Hey Sligo1,

Lighten up a little bit there brother. I didn't even give my opinion as to the merits of AFELLOWAVIATORs post. I just didn't agree that the tone of his original post on this thread was particularly offensive.

I have no beef with ACA other than a little friendly economic competition for the DAL dollar. Every ACA pilot I met seemed to be a decent sort. You guys look like a fine outfit. Take it easy. Slow down. Breath in. Breath out.

Lose the caps too. That is offensive.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

WAFU AND SLIGO,

What is your problem? Is it a schocking revelation that we at Comair do not want contract carriers doing the flying we would be doing other wise?? Do you live in a cave?

What the hell did you think? That we love the fact that you are doing as of Nov.1 84 flights a day out of CVG that we used to do?

I don't understand why this is so shocking to you guys.

Yes, we were once an independent airline, but we are not now. We , with mainline and ASA make up the Delta family, and we would like to do the Delta flying with out outsiders doing any.

I don't care if that offends you, it is just the way it is. Get a life.

 

[Caveman]

Hey! Ease up on the 'cave' comments. I like it in here.

 

[Patriot328]

Like I sad, we do not hate you guys, we just want the flying to be done in house. That is no different than any other pilot group. Who knows, maybe Delta will buy you guys one day and we will be part of the same team.

I think that statement has something to do with it. AFELLOW is whining and complaining about contract carriers and how we are the scurge of the Earth, etc, when, until less than 2 years ago, he was doing the same thing. DAL was using a contract carrier, COMAIR, to farm out flying that wasn't economical for a mainline aircraft to do. Now, DAL is using a contract carrier, ACA (and skywest and CHQ) to farm out flying that isn't economical for COMASA/DAL to do.

To bytch about us is labeling him (or her) a hypocrite (sp?).

I hate to say it, but "Now you know how the mainline pilots feel. Management is using us to screw you over just like they've used you to screw mainline pilots over for 20 years."

AVIATOR, I sincencerely hope you work out a way to get rid of the contract carriers. It would most definately be better for COMASA pilots (and DAL pilots if y'all get a system seniority list worked out) in the long run. Heck, DAL might even buy us, and when we merge into the COMASACA seniority list, we might actually get to fly together....


Cheers,

Patriot
CVG CA

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

PATRIOT,

I cannot argue with any thing you sad. That is just the way things are.

I would love to work with you some day, as long as we are on the same team.

My tone would be diff. if we were still a contract carrier, but we are not, plane and simple.

 

[walkthasky]

hmm...

what i find interesting, is that no one is backing mr fellowaviator in this forum, and i know there are comair guys in here...

my 2 cents

p.s. choose aca..hehe

 

[goodpilotithink]

WALKTHASKY'

Actually, if you read my post, and ANACONDA AND CAVEMAN, you will see a little bit of support .
'
As I and others have said, he is not in the minority at Comair when it comes to this topic. We would rather the flying be done in house. That really is not that unusual. It does not mean we don't like you guys personally, but rather we don't like the fact that you are flying DAL routes.

Hell, I have a lot of contact with your pilots, and never show them any disrespect. But we all hope Delta converts all the flying in house sooner than later.

 

[sligo1]

All this chat back and forth between ACA pilots and Comair pilots is probally only raising blood pressures. All in all, we are all in the same game now. For all you Comair guys that believe your part of the "DAL family", do you really think that when company starts using the RJ to replace main line routes, you'll be welcomed with understanding by big brothers at mainline? Its no different at ACA, no matter whos routes your flying you will piss off the main line pilots, believe me I didn't like the fact I could loose my job to our "company" owned regional carrier. Oh well things happened and I'm just happy to still be flying. This chat can go back and forth with no winners just feelings by both sides- we should all understand airlines are in business to try and make money, they don't care about their pilots feelings. Look at AMR and Eagle (company owned) now the company has figured out how to save cash by contracting to TSA, and who ever else will save them money. Don't think that is just an evil deed done by AMR, it will follow with others, hopefully it won't be you.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

SLIGO,

You call me a loose cannon? I have a bad attitude? Where do you get that from?

As you can see, other Comair pilots on this board have backed up my statements 100%. We are in nothing together, we work for seperate airlines. It is called competition, and my views on contractors is just that, my views.

We want our airline to prosper. You want yours to. What is so insane about that?

FACt: aca IS A CONTRACT CARRIER.
FACT: Comair is a wholly owned, a part of the Delta family.
FACT: ACA does flying under contract to Delta.
FACT: Comair pilots would rather that flying be done by airlines within the Delta family.
FACT: If it were, there would be more pilot bases and promotions for pilots within the Delta family.

Once again, I do not see where any of this would be a shock to a pilot who flys for a contract carrier. Well, if this is all news to you guys, I'm sorry to be the one who had to break it to you.

 

[46Driver]

In previous threads, you called ACA, SkyWest, American Eagle, and Chatauqua every name under the sun for doing what Comair did a few years ago (a contract carrier) and simultaneously trying to break Delta mainline's scope while enforcing scope on DCI flying. That being said, it IS competition. There are the proposals flying around on the ALPA boards on how to do one list with Comair, ASA, and mainline. However, until you can explain to management how it will save money and to shareholders why you want to replace the best on time and completion connection carriers (SkyWest, ACA, and Eagle) with ASA (whose numbers are at the bottom) and Comair (who cost Delta MILLION$ in a strike last year), the whole subject is likely academic.
To the person starting this thread; Comair, Air Whisky, ACA, ASA, and SkyWest are all fine companies with comparable contracts - I think you will do fine at any of them.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

46DRIVER,

Excuse me? "every name under the sun?" What "names " did I call any one? ACA has "the best numbers?" Show 12 months of data to support that claim. You can't.

I have really hurt some feelings, haven't I?


Would some one give me a reason why Comair and ASA pilots should feel any diff. towards the contract carriers? Do you benifit OUR pilot group in any way? Or does your flying take away from what WE could be doing?

Well, which is it? Benifit to us or not?

What a bunch of cry babies, unbelievable.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

46DRIVER,
And another thing. What in the hell does our strike have to do with any of this?

 

[sligo1]

Hey FellowAviator


FACT : Eagle is part of the AMR Family. Opps dad decided to screw over the illegitimate family member. What makesold dad at DAL different?

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

SLIGO,

I haven't a clue of what that post meant. Are you drinking this early in the day? What in the hell does any of this have to do with AMR?I think you were refering to AMR, but not sure.

 

[46Driver]

Hurt feelings? I'm devastated...... I'm sure my D.I.'s at Quantico could've learned from you. This is simply a message board and flying is a job.
I never said you would like us - anymore than mainline likes you... I did say that you were correct in that this is competition. The best numbers are consistently posted by SkyWest (where is Flying Dawg when we need an arbitrator). You are probably right when you say look back 12 months - ACA's numbers were in the toilet - but management is paid for trend analysis and to look forward. ACA's numbers are now rock solid - and should remain that way. As for the Comair strike, you did make some important gains and for that I thank Comair. However, in doing so you exposed Delta's Achilles heel (regional feed at a hub being dominated by a single carrier) and so they logically responded by spreadloading and intermeshing the DCI's - thus Delta management moving to contain and limit Comair's influence.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

46 driver,
I apologize for anything I may oF said to offend you. You seem like a very intelligent person and kind person. I have no personel beef with any pilot at ACA. Delta buying us may be good, or it may turn out bad.

We all have road blocks being "small jet operators", and hopefully ALPA will see that our jobs cannot be used as bargaining chips for mainline.

Actually, I would love to see Delta buy you guys, then some how get single carrier status and stand united, but who knows.

By the way, thank you for your service to our country, I really mean that.

 

[Av8tor]

Ok....guys let's all play nice now! Everyone has been a little hot in here lately. Both ACA and Comair are both good companys. Im just glad to have a job flying airplanes.

 

[EOpilot]

AFELLOWAVIATOR

You know, from my perspective as a new hire with ACA, I can't disagree with what you've said. We ARE a contract carrier. Our business does hinge on the whim of our contractees. And the pilot contract isn't all that it could be.

Having said that, any tact that you may have in real life is completely absent in your posts.

When I was with Express ONE and we and Kitty Hawk were competing for the same meager business, some pilots took the competition personally. They went so far as to threaten the other pilot group if they were seen on "their" turf. I hate to see that. The competition is not between the pilots, it's between the companies. I couldn't care less whether ACA was bought by Delta or if Delta told us to shove off as long as people don't end up on the street or displaced.

I hope Comair does well. I really do. Imagine the disaster if DAL turned on you guys, cut you loose in an IPO and told you that you'd now have to negotiate for ANY Delta business. Don't say it couldn't happen, but nobody wants that. We don't need any more broken homes and lives.

Let's hope the passengers come back, the demand goes up, people get recalled and growth ensues. Because any other growth is only done at the expense of another brother or sister just trying to earn a living.

(By the way, Kitty Hawk did survive and Express ONE did not. I hold no hard feelings for the Kitty Hawk pilots. I'm glad that they are now beginning to recall and get some stability in their lives. I just wish that our company could have done the same.)


So AFELLOWAVIATOR, don't worry about me crying over your comments. They don't bother me at all. You're only stating your opinion mixed with some hopes and a few facts and how could I fault you for that?

But if I meet you in Cinncitucky and you tell me how I'm a sell-out and I'm going to be on the street next year because you DAL guys are taking back what is rightfully yours, don't be surprised when you get a hearty "Go f*ck yourself, a**hole."

 

[jetflyer]

Wow this is ridiculous. I just read all 90 something posts on here at once (been away for a while). How amazing!

AFELLOWAVIATOR hasn't said any bad names to anyone. He hasn't been rude or anything.

He really has good points and to me, it sounds like some of the ACA pilots are severely in denial and exhibiting some serious rage towards AVIATOR because they may be waking up to the possibility that he has presented. IT COULD HAPPEN! and a lot of Comair pilot's believe it will.

I personally think ACA, Chataqua, Skywest, and even American Eagle will continue to do Delta flying. The opinions to this have also been presented on this board previously. The major couple reasons Delta would keep the great and well loved contract carriers<---can you tell I don't want to be bashed, lol in my opinion are:


1) Delta wants to whipsaw us all to keep the labor wages low whenever each new contract comes in to negotiations. They want to always leave the possibility in Comair and ASA pilot's minds that every one of their routes can be replaced by Chataqua or another great contract carrier for lower rates.

2) Delta wants to of course prevent the shutdown of another CVG in the future. I bet you'll continue seeing the cross integration that's so obviously happening increase dramatically until no one Delta regional has more than 1/2 the flying in a city.


To the great contract carrier pilots and future pilots for either Comair or ACA out there:
Delta, Comair, and ASA are the same company!
The airline industry consists of many businesses!
In any business, including your local florist, there is competition. People want their company to do well. They want their company to grow!
In business unfortunately companies try to put their competition out of business!
ACA, Skywest, and Chataqua are not owned by Delta!
It makes sense that Delta would not care as much about ACA, Skywest, and Chataqua as they would over Comair or ASA pilots. This just makes sense!
It also seems very reasonable that Delta to INCREASE THEIR PROFITS would maybe want to replace routes ran by contract carriers with ASA and Comair jets in the future when they get the opportunity(planes, etc.)

I am only a newhire at Comair, and I want my company to grow, sorry. I don't want to see contract carriers and definitely their pilots lose jobs or routes, but unfortunately it could happen.

I went to the first regional that would take me! But if I had the choice of going to ACA or Comair several months back, I would have definitely chosen Comair. My main reason sorry to hurt any contract carrier's feelings is because you could be replaced within 90 days by Delta. It just makes sense....... sorry

Good luck to anyone out there looking for a job. I know it's rough. Hope you all find jobs soon.

Jet