Comair vs. ACA

[46Driver]

In previous threads, you called ACA, SkyWest, American Eagle, and Chatauqua every name under the sun for doing what Comair did a few years ago (a contract carrier) and simultaneously trying to break Delta mainline's scope while enforcing scope on DCI flying. That being said, it IS competition. There are the proposals flying around on the ALPA boards on how to do one list with Comair, ASA, and mainline. However, until you can explain to management how it will save money and to shareholders why you want to replace the best on time and completion connection carriers (SkyWest, ACA, and Eagle) with ASA (whose numbers are at the bottom) and Comair (who cost Delta MILLION$ in a strike last year), the whole subject is likely academic.
To the person starting this thread; Comair, Air Whisky, ACA, ASA, and SkyWest are all fine companies with comparable contracts - I think you will do fine at any of them.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

46DRIVER,

Excuse me? "every name under the sun?" What "names " did I call any one? ACA has "the best numbers?" Show 12 months of data to support that claim. You can't.

I have really hurt some feelings, haven't I?


Would some one give me a reason why Comair and ASA pilots should feel any diff. towards the contract carriers? Do you benifit OUR pilot group in any way? Or does your flying take away from what WE could be doing?

Well, which is it? Benifit to us or not?

What a bunch of cry babies, unbelievable.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

46DRIVER,
And another thing. What in the hell does our strike have to do with any of this?

 

[sligo1]

Hey FellowAviator


FACT : Eagle is part of the AMR Family. Opps dad decided to screw over the illegitimate family member. What makesold dad at DAL different?

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

SLIGO,

I haven't a clue of what that post meant. Are you drinking this early in the day? What in the hell does any of this have to do with AMR?I think you were refering to AMR, but not sure.

 

[46Driver]

Hurt feelings? I'm devastated...... I'm sure my D.I.'s at Quantico could've learned from you. This is simply a message board and flying is a job.
I never said you would like us - anymore than mainline likes you... I did say that you were correct in that this is competition. The best numbers are consistently posted by SkyWest (where is Flying Dawg when we need an arbitrator). You are probably right when you say look back 12 months - ACA's numbers were in the toilet - but management is paid for trend analysis and to look forward. ACA's numbers are now rock solid - and should remain that way. As for the Comair strike, you did make some important gains and for that I thank Comair. However, in doing so you exposed Delta's Achilles heel (regional feed at a hub being dominated by a single carrier) and so they logically responded by spreadloading and intermeshing the DCI's - thus Delta management moving to contain and limit Comair's influence.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

46 driver,
I apologize for anything I may oF said to offend you. You seem like a very intelligent person and kind person. I have no personel beef with any pilot at ACA. Delta buying us may be good, or it may turn out bad.

We all have road blocks being "small jet operators", and hopefully ALPA will see that our jobs cannot be used as bargaining chips for mainline.

Actually, I would love to see Delta buy you guys, then some how get single carrier status and stand united, but who knows.

By the way, thank you for your service to our country, I really mean that.

 

[Av8tor]

Ok....guys let's all play nice now! Everyone has been a little hot in here lately. Both ACA and Comair are both good companys. Im just glad to have a job flying airplanes.

 

[EOpilot]

AFELLOWAVIATOR

You know, from my perspective as a new hire with ACA, I can't disagree with what you've said. We ARE a contract carrier. Our business does hinge on the whim of our contractees. And the pilot contract isn't all that it could be.

Having said that, any tact that you may have in real life is completely absent in your posts.

When I was with Express ONE and we and Kitty Hawk were competing for the same meager business, some pilots took the competition personally. They went so far as to threaten the other pilot group if they were seen on "their" turf. I hate to see that. The competition is not between the pilots, it's between the companies. I couldn't care less whether ACA was bought by Delta or if Delta told us to shove off as long as people don't end up on the street or displaced.

I hope Comair does well. I really do. Imagine the disaster if DAL turned on you guys, cut you loose in an IPO and told you that you'd now have to negotiate for ANY Delta business. Don't say it couldn't happen, but nobody wants that. We don't need any more broken homes and lives.

Let's hope the passengers come back, the demand goes up, people get recalled and growth ensues. Because any other growth is only done at the expense of another brother or sister just trying to earn a living.

(By the way, Kitty Hawk did survive and Express ONE did not. I hold no hard feelings for the Kitty Hawk pilots. I'm glad that they are now beginning to recall and get some stability in their lives. I just wish that our company could have done the same.)


So AFELLOWAVIATOR, don't worry about me crying over your comments. They don't bother me at all. You're only stating your opinion mixed with some hopes and a few facts and how could I fault you for that?

But if I meet you in Cinncitucky and you tell me how I'm a sell-out and I'm going to be on the street next year because you DAL guys are taking back what is rightfully yours, don't be surprised when you get a hearty "Go f*ck yourself, a**hole."

 

[jetflyer]

Wow this is ridiculous. I just read all 90 something posts on here at once (been away for a while). How amazing!

AFELLOWAVIATOR hasn't said any bad names to anyone. He hasn't been rude or anything.

He really has good points and to me, it sounds like some of the ACA pilots are severely in denial and exhibiting some serious rage towards AVIATOR because they may be waking up to the possibility that he has presented. IT COULD HAPPEN! and a lot of Comair pilot's believe it will.

I personally think ACA, Chataqua, Skywest, and even American Eagle will continue to do Delta flying. The opinions to this have also been presented on this board previously. The major couple reasons Delta would keep the great and well loved contract carriers<---can you tell I don't want to be bashed, lol in my opinion are:


1) Delta wants to whipsaw us all to keep the labor wages low whenever each new contract comes in to negotiations. They want to always leave the possibility in Comair and ASA pilot's minds that every one of their routes can be replaced by Chataqua or another great contract carrier for lower rates.

2) Delta wants to of course prevent the shutdown of another CVG in the future. I bet you'll continue seeing the cross integration that's so obviously happening increase dramatically until no one Delta regional has more than 1/2 the flying in a city.


To the great contract carrier pilots and future pilots for either Comair or ACA out there:
Delta, Comair, and ASA are the same company!
The airline industry consists of many businesses!
In any business, including your local florist, there is competition. People want their company to do well. They want their company to grow!
In business unfortunately companies try to put their competition out of business!
ACA, Skywest, and Chataqua are not owned by Delta!
It makes sense that Delta would not care as much about ACA, Skywest, and Chataqua as they would over Comair or ASA pilots. This just makes sense!
It also seems very reasonable that Delta to INCREASE THEIR PROFITS would maybe want to replace routes ran by contract carriers with ASA and Comair jets in the future when they get the opportunity(planes, etc.)

I am only a newhire at Comair, and I want my company to grow, sorry. I don't want to see contract carriers and definitely their pilots lose jobs or routes, but unfortunately it could happen.

I went to the first regional that would take me! But if I had the choice of going to ACA or Comair several months back, I would have definitely chosen Comair. My main reason sorry to hurt any contract carrier's feelings is because you could be replaced within 90 days by Delta. It just makes sense....... sorry

Good luck to anyone out there looking for a job. I know it's rough. Hope you all find jobs soon.

Jet

 

[DarnNearaJet]

AFELLOWPILOTHATER:

I seem to remember the new head of DCI in an interview about a year ago explaining that he likes the idea of several DCI carriers -- the more the better -- to basically whipsaw the carriers and and create more cost-effectiveness. So much for your "contract carriers are just filling the gap before Delta gives us all the DCI flying," idea.

ACA reqcently received a congratulatory letter from a senior DL executive on the miraculous turn-around for ACA's operational performance. For several days in October we were the number 1 DCI carrier.

Everything you say about the contract carriers, Delta pilots say about you.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

DARNNEARAPILOT,


UH, OK. GLAD YOU SET US ALL STRAIGHT. I AM SURE YOU ARE IN MORE OF A POSITION TO KNOW THESE THINGS THAN I AM.

 

[j41driver]

AIRBOARD,
.... our contract is way above aca's

Then why in the hell are you always complaining about us "folding" in only 10 months? You got "way more" than ACA, right?

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Driver,

The reason is we were trying to raise the bar and make mgt. pay what the jet was worth. ACA so quickly settleing for what they did made it virtually impossible to do this.

If you do not understand the basic princicple of pattern bargaining then you will never understand my point.

 

[acaTerry]

You are a bitter man indeed. How long were you in negotiations? Somebody, besides ACA was also in negotiations, and settled before we did. So why $hit on us?
Additionally, we did not have a big daddy mainline who owned us to put it all together after settlement if a strike materialized. We got better than you had at the time and you got more than we did BECAUSE YOU HAD US TO MEASURE AGAINST. If you have such big balls then why didn't YOU hold YOUR strike longer? Why do you expect ACA pilots to do YOUR negotiating?
You REALLY, REALLY need a beer and a valium. We all do the same thing---we fly planes. So why do you try so hard to divide us all? I am really tired of this high-schoolish name calling. So we are contract pilots. BIG FRAPPIN DEAL!! Newsflash---you were too until not so long ago. Another newsflash--DAL does not like you guys any better than you like ACA pilots. Third newsflash--No matter what you call ACA or Skywest, you are NOT a DAL pilot. And being bitter at us for things like doing our job is not going to make you get to DAL or anywhere else any faster.
The kid earlier asked for an honest response to his question. You could have done this without heading into your personal tirade against ACA because we did not put CMR first in OUR negotiations. As I asked earlier, if you were so convicted, why did you not hold out longer YOURSELVES? The shoe is on the other foot now, isn't it?
Sorry Mr. Negative Outlook, you can't blame someone else for your own problems. You have every right to dissapprove the whole idea of contract carriers. I would too. But two things that you need to show some maturity on are 1)realizing that DAL mainline pilots are saying the SAME things about you and your jets, which I'm sure you have issue with and 2) that whether you like contract carrying or not, calling us "sellouts" and calling SKW pilots things too neither betters your situation nor reflects well on your professionalism or on the points you are trying to make here.
YOUR contract, YOUR problem, YOUR fault. Not ACA's, not Skywest's. Show some maturity.

 

[spinproof]

afellowavaitor

You can't make chicken salad from chiken **it ! The world is full of "Armchair" Patriots. Those not willing to fight for a better life and better working conditions deserve neither!

How anyone can justify accepting the "Status quo" as progress all the while telling you that you didn't do enough should speak for itself!

Thanks for holding out as long as you and your fellow Comair pilots did. We who follow salute you. Those who don't have "Battle Stars" should shut up! They have nothing relavent to say!

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Terry,

You say I am a bitter man? Read your post. My goodness. Your little rant was a bunch of empty words with no substance. You would hardly be in a position to comment on the length of our strike now would you?

I see now why you settled after JUST 10 SHORT MONTHS. You have no grasp on what we were attempting to do,period. As in clueless.

At least we were willing to take it to the battle field, even after you guys folded after 10 SHORT MONTHS. But talking to yoy guys about any of this is pointless because you have no idea what we were trying to do. No idea what so ever.

Enjoy your little "piece of the pie" mgt. allowed you to have and take pride in knowing you helped RJ operators (mgt.) secure low wages and work rules that it will take decades for us pilots who are willing to fight to overcome.

Like I said, absolutely clueless.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

SPINPROOF,

Thank you.

 

[rightrudder]

How long have you been at Comair, AFELLOWAVIATOR?

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

8 years next month.