Comair vs. ACA

[FADEC]

afellowaviator, as you seem to know so much and as my days as an ACA captain are apparently numbered, you can be my new best friend if you just tell me what nextweeks lotto numbers are going to be in Illinois. Thanks D**K !!

 

[Anaconda]

A proposal is being presented to the three MEC'S that if adopted, would require an acceleration of the process.

as a fellow OH pilot, can you explain to me why i should drink from that kool-aid???

 

[AirBoard]

[Originally posted by AFELLOWAVIATOR [/i]

Contract carriers like ACA are used to divide and conquer pilot groups .

Okay let me ask you this. You obviously have been drinking the Delta Kool Aid for quite some time cause us 'contract carriers' are just bottom feeders.

Delta sees some opportunity to grow but realizes they are going to need 100 aircraft plus pilots in order to facilitate this. You probably already know since you're in the training dept Comair can't wake up the next day and put this plan into action. If they said they could they'd be fools and would fall flat on their face (on time, completion etc.). Sooooo Delta looks around at other establised airlines who may be able to help Delta expand their markets - enter the contract carrier. According to you, our days are numbered until Comair and ASA can fill all the routes with their own aircraft and pilots, what a gravy train that will be. Until then the contract carrier will hold the route for you. In return for making you're future even brighter you can no nothing better than sh*t on us. Think about it.

It doesn't really matter anyway, anytime a Comair CRJ pulls up I always have a chat with the crew and find them to be terrific people. Usually they like a tour of the Door knob. I know your an exception to them and don't reflect the pilot group.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

This thread started out as a person trying to decide between COMAIR and aca. I offered my opinion, and for some reason, it offended some people. I am only repeating what I hear at Comair day in and day out.

Alot of Delta and Comair and ASA pilots put a proposal together for the Union. The proposals purpose, among other things, is to accelerate the process of getting rid of contract carriers. It is not just me.

I have stated what I feel, and some here have turned it into a personal battle. I have been treated very rudely, but not one of you has had one thing to offer that would prove my statements wrong.

WE DO NOT WANT CONTRACT CARRIERS FLYING DELTA SYSTEM ROUTES. Is that sooooo hard to understand? I am an ass for not only thinking this, but stateing it too?? Give me a break.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

anaconda,

I don't know what you are talking about. Please explain.

 

[Anaconda]

well, it's probably best left to another thread, or a PM, but i was referring to the "proposal" you talked about, and why i should go for it...

unless i'm reading it wrong, it looks like good things for delta pilots and nothing for me...

 

[Av8tor]

What I am saying is fact. Go on with your childess blaa blaa blaa all you want. ACA's days are limited. What a bunch of idiots.\


I will not respond to a bunch of morons any more. aca is a contract carrier. Not much future there. DELTA can opt out any time with a 90 day notice. Why do you think they have that clause in the contract?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Why are you still talking to us morons?

 

[cocknbull]

Afellowaviator

Comair has now joined a list with these great companies. Why are you bashing a carrier for doing what your company did for 18 years.

1. Piedmont
2. PSA
3. Allegheny
4. American Eagle

What makes you think Delta what do to you what USAir and American have done with their red headed step children. The bottom line is dollars and cents. I am so glad I don't fly for Comair because the thought of being on a 5 day trip with you makes me want to puke.

ACA all the way

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

anaconda,

I was very skeptical myself, but at least something is in the works. My problem with it was the Delta furloughees coming onboard ahead of current pilots on our list. Sounded too much like j4j to me, but if eventually all new hires at Delta were from our ranks, it may work..


I have made a lot of enemies here, I really did not intend to, but I guess they did not like what I have had to say. I'm actually a pretty likable guy. I have had many, many FO's tell me I was one of there favorite Captains to fly with.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

cock n bull


We make too much money for them to screw up our company....

I know the truth hurts, but everything I have said is factual. No, it is not personel, just business.

Again , WE DO NOT WANT ANY CONTRACT CARRIERS DOING ANY DELTA SYSTEM FLYING. WE DO NOT WANT YOU........WE WANT OUR AIRLINE TO GROW, WE WANT OUR PILOTS TO UPGRADE, WE WANT OUR PEOPLE TO PROSPER....GEEEEEEEEEZ Take it personal if you want, I don't care, you would feel the same way..When you kids grow up, you will learn life aint fair.. deal with it.


Is this sooooo hard to understand????What do you want us to say," HEY LEO, COULD YOU PLEASE BRING IN ANOTHER CONTRACT CARRIER SO OUR CAREERS WILL STAGNATE SOME MORE, SO OUR FO'S WILL NEED EVEN MORE YEARS TO UPGRADE, SO WE WILL WILL HAVE FEWER BASES??

 

[cjf9679]

AFELLOWAVIATOR

What the hell makes you think that Delta wants Comair ASA ACA or Skywest to fly any of the routes under Delta.

 

[AirBoard]

AFELLOWAVIATOR

You've callled contract carrier pilots morons, idiots, and bottom feeders and you wonder why people are pis*ed at you??!?! Then you go on to say how you're just repeating what you've heard from other Comair pilots..ie crew room bs.

You feel pretty stongly about other airlines flying your routes which is understandable but how is that something an ACA pilot can control. Would you like us to walk out and demand the flying be returned to a Delta owned carrier. As far as I'm concerned as long as your company is not shrinking then the net effect is still a positive one. If you guys had to furlough while ACA walked away with your routes then you've got a legitimate issue. Of course, upgrades may take longer through all of this but at least no one is on the street.

If you're 'really not a bad guy' then perhaps you should stop calling your fellow pilots idiot and morons for doing what they love to do.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

cjf9679

Thats it? Thats all you could come up with??? Your statement has nothing to do with the subject. In case you did not hear , Delta bought ASA and Comair.

Is the fact that we do not want contract carriers doing Delta system flying surprise you? Any of you? Is this a huge shock????????????


My god! This thread was about a person wanting input about going to COMAIR or aca. I gave my opinion. You know, contracts end, and as soon as we have enough jets and pilots, yours will end. I simply pointed out that aca is a contract carrier, and COMAIR is not.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

AIRBOARD,

Actually, first, AV8TOR told me to "shut up" then RJPILOTT called me a "moron". And I never used the term "bottom feeder". I did use the term "moron" and "idiot", but this was in respnse to the idiotic post they made.

My opinions are based on fact, and I was attacked for posting them on this board. Go read my first post on this thread, I was responding to a person who was trying to decide between aca and Comair.


These kids get a little defensive. Maybe they never thought that we DO NOT WANT CONTRACT CARRIERS DOING DELTA SYSTEM FLYING, AND ALL FUTURE CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS AT COMAIR, ASA, AND DELTA WILL PARTLY FOCUS ON ELIMINATING ALL CONTRACT FLYING.

The company plans to do this at some time, and they will use contract carriers as a bargainibg chip, but you will be gone at some time, sooner better than later.


Do I dislike contract pilots? Hell no. It is just business.

And by the way, aca+1% is what they offered, not what we accepted.
We actually got more. Then you factor in the company funded retirement, and our contract is way above aca's

 

[acaTerry]

AFELLOWAVIATOR is JimboRealGoodPilot in disguise!!

My freinds at CMR tell me it was settled at 2-3%.......and at that for 70 seat pay. ACA only runs the 50 seaters. What a gap. BTW, we have 11 REAL days off minimum, golden days. My freinds at CMR also tell me that some of CMR's 11 off minimum that you can be called out. Sounds like reserve to me. In any case, they still seem happy, so CMR must not be a bad place to be.

ANNNNNNDDDDD......I really, really think AFELLOWAVIATOR is JimboRealGoodPilot back in disguise. Y'all remember him----the guy who used to krap with a "k".....
I have come to this conclusion because nobody could be this ignorant and bitter. Maybe you should change your name to ISOLATEDBITTERAVIATOR.
BTW, I'll bet anything that the "many, many" FO's who told you they liked flying with you were on probation and said whilst you were filling out their report card....
And, let's grow up and stop this babytalk about whose airline is better than whose. Go to the major airline board. Notice something missing? YES!! Immaturity is conspicuously silent!! Daggone, let's act like big kids.

Oh, BTW, Anaconda...didn't I tell you about 2 months ago to get that army stuff off your profile? Jarheads rule! LOL

 

[g159av8tor]

To all those interested:

I'm not that bright and I'll probably prove this fact more than once during this post.

These kids get a little defensive. Maybe they never thought that we DO NOT WANT CONTRACT CARRIERS DOING DELTA SYSTEM FLYING, AND ALL FUTURE CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS AT COMAIR, ASA, AND DELTA WILL PARTLY FOCUS ON ELIMINATING ALL CONTRACT FLYING.

An understandable concept. But really not what ALPA is envisioning in the future for "regionals" as RPTrain quoted from the ALPA newsletter. But, how do you, CMR and ASA, negotiate around the bargaining chip (we contract carriers) DAL will use against you when Ma Delta manipulates your business model at will to make it less indebted? Being wholly owned has both advantages and disadvantages that are dependent on many things, but the economy comes to mind as having the most influence.

Basically, SkyWest, ACA, Chautauqua are in the DAL system for at least three reasons: 1) Cost; 2) Cross integration to prevent the financial devastation CMR brought to DAL when they struck and basically closed CVG; and 3) Need.

So, as mainlines figure out strategies to become profitable and play "regionals" against each other to benefit their bottom line, how do we "regional" pilots strategize in solidarity to improve our careers (e.g. QOL, pay, benefits, retirement) and secure (as much as can be in this industry) our futures?

Tailwinds...

 

[rptrain]

AFELLOWAVIATOR Hall of Shame

Let's look back on what this stalwart individual has contributed over the past couple of months.

posted 9/17/02:

I fully support the RJDC and hope we bankrupt that pathetic union.

We all have seen lately how much he cares for pilots outside of the Delta "family." I wonder just how much Delta mainline folks share his warm and fuzzy "we are family" mantra.

posted on 9/25/02:

You people folded after just 10 months of negotiations while we were fighting for our lives to get a great contract for 3 plus years. ACA pilots did nothing to raise the bar, and as far as I am concerned, are a bunch of sell outs.

And this SKYWEST pilot is upset at me for being mean to his ACA buds. Well, Skywest is even worst than ACA. They refuse to unionize, so pilots like us have to do all the hard work, like strike, so skywest pilots can benifit.

compare that with what he writes in his last post:

Do I dislike contract pilots? Hell no. It is just business.

It seems you can't win with AFELLOWAVIATOR. Either you're a bum for associating with ALPA, the "pathetic union," or you're a bum for being non-union like Skywest.

Delta bought Comair in January of 2000. AFELLOWAVIATOR, here's a direct question for you: were you hired by Comair before 01/00? If the answer is yes, you had better shut up before you make any more of a fool of yourself. Even if you were hired after 01/00, they way you want to pull up the ladder behind you is despicable. Delta buys your company, so now you have an inalienable, God-given right to all of the system flying? Wake up and smell the new, new economy. ACA is not a bunch of whores you have jumped into bed with Delta. ACA is a top-notch airline with fantasic pilots, a leading contract (disputing that it's anything below #3 is pure folly), and a niche airplane that meets Delta's needs. You've proven yourself to be nothing but an elitist snob.

And as for "My opinions are based on fact," you've been proven quite wrong in the past. Remember the thread about operational performace figures for the Delta Connection carriers? The only "facts" I've ever seen you post are heresay and innuendo.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

acatery,



The 70 seater pays 12% more than the 50 seater.





My my, I have struck a nerve..... Been told to shut up, been called a moron..... and you people call me rude????Fact is, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH..(thats from a movie)

Well, enjoy the 30 dci aircraft while you can. Ever wonder why Delta will not grow your fleet? Because your days are numbered as a DCI carrier. No, not because you can't get any more dojets. I know the truth hurts, and I really did not expect this childish behavior, but I did hear a lot of young pilots fly for aca.

I threw no insults when I got in this thread, you people did.

 

[Caveman]

AFELLOWAVIATOR originally wrote:

"When I first read the question, my response was " what kind of question was that?" But then I realized that some one in your position, being on the out side looking in, most likely would not have the prospective that some one who has been in the industry for a while has."

That doesn't seem particuilarly hostile to me.

He also wrote:

"In my opinion, ACA would be the wrong choice by a long shot. And here is why. ACA is a contract carrier. Comair is a wholly owned. With all the aircraft we have on order, it is just a matter of time until the contract carriers at Delta will be gone. Leo Mullin, the CEO of Delta, wanted to get as much market share with the RJ as fast as he could while the aircraft is still fairly new to the market. So, until he can fill the market with his own jets, he is using contract carriers."

One man's opinion but not derogatory or contemptuous towards anyone.

Also:

"Our contract is better, and ACA pilots have little chance of improving theirs in the future. Why? The pilot group at ACA did not show any desire to have an industry leading contract. Why do I say that? They basically folded after just 10 months of talks, when the average section 8 talks take 3+ years. That was there choice, and I am only stating facts. As a contract carrier, it is true that the company does has less to offer, so maybe they were correct in there stance."

Maybe a little holier than thou and probably a bit controversial but, again, not really hostile.

And finally:

"Being at Comair for eight years, I can say the company is top notch, and if you would like, I will fax you parts of our contract if it will help you.

Thank You"

Seems pretty helpful to me. Why is everyone so pissed at this guy? You may disagree with his position but he didn't start the personal attacks on this thread.

 

[cocknbull]

Afellowaviator

If you did not feel threatened by ACA you would not care.

Do you not think Delta guys don't care that you took over many of there routes.

Do you think that they aren't upset some of their brothers are on food stamps while Comair is hiring.

Delta guys aren't stupid.

I hear alot of Comair pilots talk about this great contract that will allow Comair pilots to flow through to Delta under one seniority list. I also here how Delta will phase out ACA, Chautauqua, and American Eagle as soon as ASA and Comair can handle it. Get real. Delta is a good old boys club. The thought of ex-military pilots starting at Comair instead of Delta makes them cringe. They would much rather see there military brothers then guys who took their flying and caused many of them to be furloghed. If this contract did happen Comairs profit margin would start to shrink. Eventually Comair and ASA would be in the same boat as American Eagle.

The bottom line is ACA makes money. There will always be air carriers who want to use us to make them some cash. We are not worried.