Comair vs. ACA

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

ACE! Shame on you. Have you not read what these aca pilots have said? All the reasons you stated for choosing Comair are the same I have stated, and they have proven me wrong time and again.

Maybe you guys can start the name calling again, since the points he made were the EXACT same thing I have been saying.

 

[jetflyer]

YEP ACE watch out they're gonna crucify you too now.

Never mention there is a possiblity all ACA's Delta flying will be replaced in the future by Comair and ACA. This is sacreligous to them!

(more like in denial that there was even the slightest possibility that it could happen) I don't think it would happen but it could. Oh great, the almighty and all-knowing ACA pilots are probably gonna bash me too now. I better run!

I'm out,
Jet

 

[rightrudder]

SJCAPT I think all of you have beaten this issue to death!!! Lets see what Duane Woerth's "Next Generation of Scope" brings to all of us. It sounds like the BOD meeting indicated that the Mainline and the W/O's will push for scope restricting flying within the Brand. We'll see how this changes the "portfolio" concept. In the meantime we are all pawns in the game! By the way did anyone see the NWA resolution that was just passed regarding Mesaba and Pinnacle? Check it out.

I have a good idea of what would happen next. You'd see carriers such as Delta and USAIR divesting themselves of their wholly-owned "regional" companies, so that they could then use contract carriers to do flying. There has been some indication that AMR may be doing this to get around scope issues.

The next few years will be very interesting to say the least.

RR

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

HEY RIGHTRUDDER,


JETFLYER AND ACE ARE ME TOO. I ADMIT IT, YOU CAUGHT ME.........



GOODPILOTITHINK, JETFLYER, ACE, AND AFELLOWAVIATOR ARE THE SAME PERSON....

WOW! YOU ARE ONE SHARP COOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rightrudder]

JETFLYER AND ACE ARE ME TOO. I ADMIT IT, YOU CAUGHT ME.........

Don't insult Ace like that

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

RIGHTRUDDER???


ARE YOU NOT GOING TO PAT YOUR SELF ON THE BACK? SHOULD I CALL YOU "INSPECTOR RIGHTRUDDER"?

What a winner.

 

[rptrain]

Some of you haven't been paying attention. What do you suppose a "brand" is? I believe all of ACA's, ASA's, Comair's, and Skywest's airplanes say "Delta Connection" on the side (well, except for one ACA plane I can think of ). That's a brand, fellas.

Check out Duane Woerth's speech at the BOD meeting.

Management has a strategy to further divide us and ratchet us down – they call it “brand management.” We need a counter strategy and we need it yesterday. What I believe we need is brand governance for pilots within the brand. Traditional scope fences will still be necessary outside of the brand, but inside the brand it is going to require a paradigm shift to what I call “the next generation of scope.”

This next generation of scope sets contractual standards for brand eligibility. This scope focuses more on the quality of the contract rather than merely on the quantity of small jet aircraft. To remove management’s financial incentive to develop even more substandard subsets within the brand and accelerate the proverbial race to the bottom – which they think they’ve got right now – all of us need to work on a coordinated brand scope strategy.
...
In adjusting our coordinated job security strategy for pilots within a brand, we need not, and indeed must not, waste a single second or one ounce of energy playing the “blame game.”

Let’s just face up to the reality of the brand management thunderstorms in our path and upgrade together to a new course, to a new joint and coordinated job security strategy within a given brand.

Will this be easy? No way!! It will be exceedingly difficult and not just because management will resist it. That’s nothing new, managements resist every thing we do to better protect pilots. What’s going to make this tough is that some of our own pilots are going to resist this effort, at least initially, aren’t they?

And who can blame them? They are out there flying the line, working 16-hour days, away from their families for 2/3 of their lives and still believe they are employed by an airline, not a brand manager. It will be up to us, their elected leadership, to have the courage to tell them the truth, that “somebody moved their cheese,” and it wasn’t other pilots, it was management.

After nearly a quarter of a century of deregulation, we must candidly acknowledge that airline managements have been successful in their propaganda in trying to get pilots to believe that we are all competitors. Their message is: those pilots with different wings and different uniforms – they are the enemy, they are your competition!!

We are not competitors!! Managements must compete!! Not us!!

I think Duane has been reading this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, ACA, ASA, Comair, and Skywest are all doing their part to meet these goals. Chautauqua? No comment! This thread has gone on long enough!

Comair guys, please read the above and try to settle down. I'm disappointed that everytime I see a Comair guy now I think that he probably hates me for no reason other than what uniform I'm wearing. This is wrong, guys, and it has to stop. I'm not going to apologize for what I do. I'm proud of my company and our contract.

 

[V-1]

Comair guys, please read the above and try to settle down. I'm disappointed that everytime I see a Comair guy now I think that he probably hates me for no reason other than what uniform I'm wearing. This is wrong, guys, and it has to stop. I'm not going to apologize for what I do. I'm proud of my company and our contract.

Every pilot group has people with extreme views on either side of any issue. Don't let one person, who apparently suffers from Multiple Personality Disorder, lead you to believe their view is the prevailing one (although there is some support for it).

Sure, it would be nice to have all Connection flying within the Delta-owned carriers. It'd be nice to fly 757's at Comair also. That doesn't mean it will happen. I think Comair's pilot group would be better served at this time defending themselves against the predatory scope issues DALPA and ALPA supports, rather than opening up another front.

As has been pointed out, Comair was once a "contract carrier". They were a very successful one, which prompted DAL to buy them. Funny how quickly one's perspective changes based on which side of the fence they're standing. Hopefully under DAL's leadership, Comair will continue to prosper. I wish the same for any quality pilot group, ACA included.

I'm off now to create some extra screen-names so I can come back and support my writing. Anyone got any good suggestions?

Regards,
V-!

 

[Rotorhead]

I'm off now to create some extra screen-names so I can come back and support my writing. Anyone got any good suggestions?

Regards,
V-!

Finally some humor.....

 

[Cappy]

"At least we were willing to take it to the battle field, even after you guys folded after 10 SHORT MONTHS. But talking to yoy guys about any of this is pointless because you have no idea what we were trying to do. No idea what so ever."

Please elaborate on the appropriate time frame required for contract negotiations to have a worthwhile return. I could not find it in the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws, nor could anyone at ALPA legal offer it up.

"Enjoy your little "piece of the pie" mgt. allowed you to have and take pride in knowing you helped RJ operators (mgt.) secure low wages and work rules that it will take decades for us pilots who are willing to fight to overcome."

Please quote a specefic rate of pay please that we were supposed to have and please elaborate on what work rules we have that are "low".

I'll wait.

___________________________________________________

"It takes a big man to cry. It takes a bigger man to laugh at that man".

 

[rightrudder]

"RIGHTRUDDER???


ARE YOU NOT GOING TO PAT YOUR SELF ON THE BACK? SHOULD I CALL YOU "INSPECTOR RIGHTRUDDER"?

What a winner."



Please, stop, you are hurting my feelings.

 

[Jboss]

This is insane. None of us has any direct control over what flying we're doing. In both cases (ACA and COMAIR/ASA) its mainline that makes the decisions. We're all suppose to be in this together folks. We've gotta get that way if any of us is ever going to improve our contract/company/industry. I mean those managers would crap themselves with joy if they saw how fragmented we seem here. The old divide and conquer.