Comair Vote Results ???

[scarlet]

ALPA helps AGAIN---WHAT A GREAT UNION...!!!

 

[ReportCanoa]

ALPA helps AGAIN---WHAT A GREAT UNION...!!!

Lets hope Duane will honor what he published in the last ALPA rag, and effetively send the "yes" kids back to detention.

 

[Mongolikecandy]

I think that you need to realize that you were the last to negotiate a contract pre 9/11. You seem to forget that ASA had the industry leading contract for 2 years, before ACA jumped past us. They had it for a while before you passed them. You arent the only ones who have ever raised the bar, so stop acting like it.

An extremely valid point. Wisconsin had a great contract also... Comair plus a little, if memory serves. However, we got duped into concessions when United brought in CHQ, TS and Mesa to fly express. Management scared the pilot group into believing we'd lose flying if we didn't get the costs down and the group fell for it. (hopefully we get it back in arbitration... not holding my breath though)

It is never good for anyone when concessions are taken. Sorry you guys have to go through it also. Best of luck.

 

[Otto]

Hey ALPA...time for flat pay rates!!!

The 89 day strike was a BIG waste of time and a BIGGER waste of money. VERY, VERY SAD!

The 89 day strike was a waste of time long before the vote today. The day Mesa and CHQ took substandard contracts, the day Skywest agreed to concessions, at that point any progress made during the strike became irrelevant. For contract advancement to work at the regional level, we must all work TOGETHER. Since a $35K a year job sounds fabulous to a flight instructor making 16K, that will never happen. Isn't time ALPA started talking about flat rates, at least at the regional level? For example, regardless of the carrier, if you are a CRJ FO, you make $XX, if you're a CAPT, you make $XX. That's the only way to stop this madness. There's too much incentive to whipsaw when you're bidding on flying. My $.02 cent's.

 

[ReportCanoa]

For contract advancement to work at the regional level, we must all work TOGETHER. For example, regardless of the carrier, if you are a CRJ FO, you make $XX, if you're a CAPT, you make $XX. That's the only way to stop this madness.

What about the numbnuts who fly for GoatJets? Similar types would gladly crawl out of woodwork and scab everything in sight. And no, I haven't flown the B1900.

 

[regionaltard]

While at the time I applauded Comair for taking a stand and striking. I never agreed with the attitude that came from their pilots. In the last 2 years I have been denied a jumpseat on a Comair flight with 3 open seats, told I had to get out of a hotel van because Comair does not share vans with other crewmembers, and was told a Comair crew could not hold the van 3 minutes for us (we were right behind them going into AVP). That is why I resent Comair.

Resenting a whole airline just because of the actions of a few tools is like saying the Colts suck just because Peyton is gay.

I think that you need to realize that you were the last to negotiate a contract pre 9/11. You seem to forget that ASA had the industry leading contract for 2 years, before ACA jumped past us. They had it for a while before you passed them. You arent the only ones who have ever raised the bar, so stop acting like it.

Enough with the you, you, you, already....I don't work for Comair. And what they did wasn't "raising the bar," it was a watershed moment in the history of our industry that was turned into a futile gesture by the shortsightedness of other airlines and the union that claims to represent them.

 

[Puck Mugger]

Careful who you throw stones at. How long has ASA been "negotiating"? You guys should have gone on stike long ago.

That isn't quite how it works brainiac. Apparently you are not terribly familiar with the process under the RLA.

...and by the way I don't work for Mesa (or CHQ), but you soon will. This sweetheart of a deal you fellers just handed management is just what they needed to get Ornstein to pony up to buy you at Delta's little fire sale.

Portfolio Phred is sitting back laughing his ass off while his manservant bathes his assh0le in Congnac that you guys paid for.

 

[D'Angelo]

Lets hope Duane will honor what he published in the last ALPA rag, and effetively send the "yes" kids back to detention.

How about you worry about your own airline my friend. Everyone has the right to vote and the majority is spoken. What you wanna do now send some union thugs after all the yes voters? How about you go pound sand. No one cares what happens at ASA except the ones that work there. Everyone cares about themselves now. Its a mad mad mad mad world out there. Everyone for himself from here on out. No raising the bar no holding the line. Its a tough environment and its better to keep our jobs than start all over again.

 

[Puck Mugger]

In their road shows, they claim that the DCI agreement with ASA/SKW requires that you guys be the 2nd lowest paid by year 4 and the lowest by year 6, or the contract can be pulled. Any of you guys heard that?

They claim lots of things. That doesn't make them true. I don't buy it for a minute. Even it were true, they can get their cost down by getting a sweetheart deal from the guy that sells them lav juice and diet coke, and hiring someone other that the idiots at the GO and running a more efficient airline. They WILL not get it out of my pocket. All I have to lose is a 50 k job that I can replace next week. They will lose their whole airline. Jerry Atkin didn't pay 450 mil for an outfit to watch it go up in flames when all we want is what his pilots already have.


Unfortunately for you guys a slim majority of your pilots have not learned that yet.

Phred hosed you on the strike, hosed you on the concessions, and now he got the money shot on this one.

Why can't you figure it out over there. Giving in just means they are going to plow your a$$ harder the next time.

 

["GO AROUND"]

[

I heard that the vote passed by 7 votes, exactly the number on the Comair MEC. Coincidence? I guess their hard sell during their road shows paid off.

Good luck to us all in this industry.

It was actually 16 votes. The MEC did not endorse the concession package, and it was presented to the pilots to vote on as a "concession" and not a TA -- for whatever that's worth.

In their road shows, they claim that the DCI agreement with ASA/SKW requires that you guys be the 2nd lowest paid by year 4 and the lowest by year 6, or the contract can be pulled. Any of you guys heard that?[/quote]

Old News....

What most people don't talk about is for the 15 or so years before delta bought us they could have terminated our contract with 30 days notice. So what's the difference? Now they have specific writing in the deals to hold over our heads and either way they can terminate our contract.

Whether we get an industry standard contract or not won't keep us from being 2nd lowest or lowest in DCI costs. That's for SKW inc. to work out not the pilot group.

51% of Comair pilots forgot that there are other ways to cut costs other than the easiest one, the pilots.

Perhaps they forgot that Comair has probably the highest lease rates on their aircraft and ASA has some of the lowest. Perhaps that's why SKW liked the deal they got for us.

 

[mrnolmts]

I think that you need to realize that you were the last to negotiate a contract pre 9/11.

Eh, I think you are incorrect. Our contract (QX) was finalized on 9/6...
On a sidenote, if it wasn't for Comair getting such a good deal, I am quite certain our rates would not be as high as they are.
Our contract is up for renewal this year, and I'm confident management will try to cram all the hosejobs you guys have been getting down our throats. Crossing my fingers we'll do well...

 

[mesaba2425]

It's Official from VARS


704-For (50.57%)
688-Against(49.43%)

uke:

Don't ever think your vote doesn't count!!!!

It's nice to see that 704 people get it. The other 688 should thank them.

 

[ReportCanoa]

How about you worry about your own airline my friend. Everyone has the right to vote and the majority is spoken. What you wanna do now send some union thugs after all the yes voters? How about you go pound sand. No one cares what happens at ASA except the ones that work there. Everyone cares about themselves now. Its a mad mad mad mad world out there. Everyone for himself from here on out. No raising the bar no holding the line. Its a tough environment and its better to keep our jobs than start all over again.

I am worrying about my airline. What has happened to this "career", is that management has discovered people like you. I have not and will never "pay to play". Comair has proven they can hire the "right stuff" for their pilot vacancies, and Fred Buttray is cashing the check you signed, right about now. Ca-Ching! Enjoy Mesa, young buck. I'll take SkyWorst any day. See ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Puck Mugger]

Guess what. The only way to underbid the lowest bidder is to cut costs and apparently airline managers think the only way to do that is through pilot pay cuts.

It would appear that a slim majority of the Comair pilots agree.

 

["GO AROUND"]

How about you worry about your own airline my friend. Everyone has the right to vote and the majority is spoken. What you wanna do now send some union thugs after all the yes voters? How about you go pound sand. No one cares what happens at ASA except the ones that work there. Everyone cares about themselves now. Its a mad mad mad mad world out there. Everyone for himself from here on out. No raising the bar no holding the line. Its a tough environment and its better to keep our jobs than start all over again.

Hey D'Angelo, are you gonna get your name tag changed to say "Buttrell's B*tch"? Cause your lady wants her well deserved vacation. You got any pants left in your I mean her house that she lets you live in.

 

[Puck Mugger]

Hey D'Angelo, are you gonna get your name tag changed to say "Buttrell's B*tch"? Cause your lady wants her well deserved vacation. You got any pants left in your I mean her house that she lets you live in.

Portfolio Phred was puttin' the wood to D'Angelo a few weeks back. Phred pulled it out and gave D'Angelo the 'ol Dirty Sanchez.

D'Angelo has been smitten ever since.

 

[RichO]

what a sad day.................hey, but don't worry, they have to at least pay us min wage........what tools........hey, did any one give the folks on Mil leave a chance to vote, or does their vote not count? I'm curious as to the break down between captain and first officer...............Freddy, I would say he's the biggest tool of all.........a yes man........

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Eh, I think you are incorrect. Our contract (QX) was finalized on 9/6...
On a sidenote, if it wasn't for Comair getting such a good deal, I am quite certain our rates would not be as high as they are.
Our contract is up for renewal this year, and I'm confident management will try to cram all the hosejobs you guys have been getting down our throats. Crossing my fingers we'll do well...

Eh, I think it is both of you who are incorrect. Check out Air Wisconsin's Section 31.A from their pre-concessionary agreement.

This Agreement shall become effective on September 11, 2001, and continue in full force and effect until September 11, 2005, and shall renew itself without change until each succeeding September 11 thereafter, unless written notice of intended change is served in accordance with Section 6, Title I of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, by either party hereto at least ninety (90) but not more than one hundred and eighty (180) days prior to September 11, 2005, or any September thereafter.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

what a sad day.................hey, but don't worry, they have to at least pay us min wage........what tools........hey, did any one give the folks on Mil leave a chance to vote, or does their vote not count? I'm curious as to the break down between captain and first officer...............Freddy, I would say he's the biggest tool of all.........a yes man........

If you are on Military Leave, you cannot vote since you aren't in a dues paying status (drill weekends notwithstanding of course).

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Isn't time ALPA started talking about flat rates, at least at the regional level? For example, regardless of the carrier, if you are a CRJ FO, you make $XX, if you're a CAPT, you make $XX. That's the only way to stop this madness. There's too much incentive to whipsaw when you're bidding on flying. My $.02 cent's.

Stay tuned...

...MEC Chairmen, NC Chairmen, and Captain Woerth, ALPA advisors from various small jet MEC's met on a conference call today as a follow-up to a previous conference call as well as multi-day small jet bargaining conference that occurred several months ago.

-Neal

 

[zonker]

Release #06.002
January 20, 2006
Delta Connection ALPA Pilots Approve Concessions to Help Save Airline
CINCINNATI, OH – The pilots of Comair, as represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l. (ALPA), today ratified a concessionary labor agreement, by a narrow 50.57 percent in favor, which will provide an annual savings of $17.3 million to bankrupt Comair Airlines, a wholly owned subsidiary of Delta Air Lines. Despite pilot approval, the bankruptcy court must sanction this deal before it becomes official.
“This was not an easy decision, as evidenced by the slim margin of passage,” said the Master Executive Council Chairman Capt. J.C. Lawson. “We hope that this considerable commitment from our membership will help Comair improve its financial position.”
The pilot/management settlement, known as Letter of Agreement 01-06, reduces pay rates and retirement benefit levels, and provides other contract relief for the company. It also extends the current contract by four years from the date of signing.
Negotiations between the pilots and management began in early November 2005, following Delta’s Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing, which took place two months earlier. In February of that year, the pilots provided some preliminary contract relief in exchange for fleet guarantees and a commitment from the company for no furloughs.
ALPA represents nearly 1,900 Comair pilots at bases located at Cincinnati, New York, Greensboro, N.C., and Orlando, Fla. ALPA International represents 62,000 airline pilots at 39 airlines in the U.S. and Canada. Its website is www.alpa.org.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Stay tuned...

...MEC Chairmen, NC Chairmen, and Captain Woerth, ALPA advisors from various small jet MEC's met on a conference call today as a follow-up to a previous conference call as well as multi-day small jet bargaining conference that occurred several months ago.

-Neal

So, can we expect a follow-up call to discuss the conference that ocurred after the follow-up, but before the actual conference?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

So, can we expect a follow-up call to discuss the conference that ocurred after the follow-up, but before the actual conference?

Sorry, to clear up the confusing wording, there was a conference held in Herndon several months ago (outlined in this month's ALPA magazine) and then 2 calls since then...the second of which occurred today. And more will be coming out shortly.

-Neal

 

[ReportCanoa]

Sorry, to clear up the confusing wording, there was a conference held in Herndon several months ago (outlined in this month's ALPA magazine) and then 2 calls since then...the second of which occurred today. And more will be coming out shortly.

-Neal

Well, I hope they will be discussing a strategy to stop the death spiral. Knowing ALPA, it's probably just a way to look busy. Thanks though...

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Well, I hope they will be discussing a strategy to stop the death spiral. Knowing ALPA, it's probably just a way to look busy. Thanks though...

Not a way to look busy and yes we will.

-Neal

 

[davessn763]

Well, we could have voted NO and won the battle; while losing the war.

When U went bakrupt, the pilots voted over and over again to cut their wages and benefits in an effort to save their airline. They undercut the pay of regional airlines by as much as 35% without batting an eye. In turn that resulted in Jet Blue establishing a new low in wages for 100-seat aircraft and undercutting regional pay for 70-seat aircraft by a wide margin.Results = YTD for U now absorbed by AWA, already a low wage carrier, that is now matching Jet Blue wages for 100-seat aircraft..

When AA was about to go bankrupt the pilots voted for major pay cuts to save the airline. Massive furloughs relieved somewhat by taking jobs from Eagle pilots. Results = favorable.

When UAL went bankrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = YTD

When DAL went bankrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = YTD

When Hawaiian went bakrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = favorable

When Aloha went bankrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = YTD

ATA pilots took major concessions and still lost half their company. Results = YTD

NWA pilots have given up 24% of their pay and it's still not settled. They are bankrupt. If they don't give more they can strike ... and go the way of EAL and TWA -- out of business. Results = YTD

When TWA went bankrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = failure; out of business; fire sale to AA.

When forced into bankruptcy by DAL, the Comair pilots have voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = YTD

CAL pilots gave up the idea of an industry leading contract. They're doing ok, so far.

Now let's compare that to some others.

MESA pilots - Agreed to a substandard contract supposedly to fight Freedom; undercutting everyone. They happilly now have Comair's flying in part. They accepted J4J and gave their seniority to mainline pilots.

PSA, PDT and ALG all took major concessions. PSA got more flying, the others little or nothing. All gave up their seniority to U pilots in J4J.

SKYW pilots - Voted to fly 99-seat airplanes for 50 seat pay to get more flying from bankrupt United. They happily took it and they got more from DAL too. Company promised wage increase in 18 months. Company lied. SKYW pilots got the growth they voted for and are happy with it to the point of gloating.

CHQ pilots - Voted for substandard pay supposedly to stop Republic. They accepted J4J and gave their seniority to mainline pilots. They got major growth in exchange, including much of Comairs logical growth. They are happy with it and in love with their E-170's.

AWAC pilots voted for concessions - to keep flying from United They lost it anyway to MESA and CHQ. Then their company had to "buy" their flying from USAir.

ACA pilots took concessions to help their company get away from United. The effort failed; they're out of business.

TSA pilots extended their contract for 2 years and accepted J4J. Their company got more flying, but it went to GoJ and not to them.

MSA accepted a mediocre contract. NWA took away their airplanes and they are now bankrupt. Results = YTD

ASA = lucked out of the DAL bankruptcy by the SKYW acquisition. No contract and none in sight.

At this point there is no one in a position to critique Comair pilots. We have been forced into this by the very people that are now clamoring for us to "hold the line" so that they can take our flying, which not one of them would refuse. When we did hold the line and raise the bar, not one of them followed us.

This vote may not result in anything good for Comair pilots but there is little doubt that a NO vote would have resulted in good things for the same people that are now calling us names.

We live in interesting times. Let him that is without sin cast the first stone.

You forgot "XJT pilots voted in, a then better than average, now industry leading contract, only to be threatend a year later with the loss of 25% of current aircraft."
Our CEO told us to our faces at a stockholders meeting that we would never be the highest paid regional pilots, I guess we pulled a fast one on him.

Not a way to look busy and yes we will.

-Neal

I hope that means XJT's Contract 04 is gonna be the line in the sand.

 

[davessn763]

.....

 

[mrnolmts]

Eh, I think it is both of you who are incorrect. Check out Air Wisconsin's Section 31.A from their pre-concessionary agreement.

Eh, I never stated we were the last I simply pointed to the fact that Comair were not the last ones prior to 9/11 to get a contract. Just setting the record straight! :beer:

 

[BluDevAv8r]

You forgot "XJT pilots voted in a then better than average contract, only to be threatend a year later with the loss of 25% of current aircraft."

40% of us voted NO, hoping for Comair or better.

Dave, are you happy with your "NO" vote now? Looking back...did it make sense?

I hope that means XJT's Contract 04 is gonna be the line in the sand.

Everyone wants a sacrificial lamb...as long as it isn't them. Ultimately that will be up to XJT management and the XJT pilots.

-Neal

 

[surplus1]

Everyone wants a sacrificial lamb...as long as it isn't them. Ultimately that will be up to XJT management and the XJT pilots.
-Neal

You're right Neal, but a little off on the designators. It will be up to CAL management and the XJT pilots. As long as your eggs are all in one basket the owner of that basket will call the shots.

Prepare to repel boarders and do not expect Herndon to save the day. You'll have to do this one on your own. It's coming.

The one thing in your favor is that CAL is not in Chapter 11, at least not yet.