Comair Vote Results ???

[SennaP1]

Magic Words

Has any body used the Magic words yet? R...e to t..e B..tt..m Yet?

In all seriousness, all the best to you Comair guys (both sides). Not a good situation. But I guess you do what you have to to survive; for those that voted yes.

Good Luck.

 

[JECKEL]

""In their road shows, they claim that the DCI agreement with ASA/SKW requires that you guys be the 2nd lowest paid by year 4 and the lowest by year 6, or the contract can be pulled. Any of you guys heard that?""


I heard the same thing the other day about the DCI/SKW agreement. If the first "hurdle is not met then growth aircraft are compromised. If the second "hurdle" is not met then the contract is compromised.

If this is true, then it really sucks to be ASA.

 

[surplus1]

Well, we could have voted NO and won the battle; while losing the war.

When U went bakrupt, the pilots voted over and over again to cut their wages and benefits in an effort to save their airline. They undercut the pay of regional airlines by as much as 35% without batting an eye. In turn that resulted in Jet Blue establishing a new low in wages for 100-seat aircraft and undercutting regional pay for 70-seat aircraft by a wide margin.Results = YTD for U now absorbed by AWA, already a low wage carrier, that is now matching Jet Blue wages for 100-seat aircraft..

When AA was about to go bankrupt the pilots voted for major pay cuts to save the airline. Massive furloughs relieved somewhat by taking jobs from Eagle pilots. Results = favorable.

When UAL went bankrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = YTD

When DAL went bankrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = YTD

When Hawaiian went bakrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = favorable

When Aloha went bankrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = YTD

ATA pilots took major concessions and still lost half their company. Results = YTD

NWA pilots have given up 24% of their pay and it's still not settled. They are bankrupt. If they don't give more they can strike ... and go the way of EAL and TWA -- out of business. Results = YTD

When TWA went bankrupt the pilots voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = failure; out of business; fire sale to AA.

When forced into bankruptcy by DAL, the Comair pilots have voted for major concessions to save the airline. Results = YTD

CAL pilots gave up the idea of an industry leading contract. They're doing ok, so far.

Now let's compare that to some others.

MESA pilots - Agreed to a substandard contract supposedly to fight Freedom; undercutting everyone. They happilly now have Comair's flying in part. They accepted J4J and gave their seniority to mainline pilots.

PSA, PDT and ALG all took major concessions. PSA got more flying, the others little or nothing. All gave up their seniority to U pilots in J4J.

SKYW pilots - Voted to fly 99-seat airplanes for 50 seat pay to get more flying from bankrupt United. They happily took it and they got more from DAL too. Company promised wage increase in 18 months. Company lied. SKYW pilots got the growth they voted for and are happy with it to the point of gloating.

CHQ pilots - Voted for substandard pay supposedly to stop Republic. They accepted J4J and gave their seniority to mainline pilots. They got major growth in exchange, including much of Comairs logical growth. They are happy with it and in love with their E-170's.

AWAC pilots voted for concessions - to keep flying from United They lost it anyway to MESA and CHQ. Then their company had to "buy" their flying from USAir.

ACA pilots took concessions to help their company get away from United. The effort failed; they're out of business.

TSA pilots extended their contract for 2 years and accepted J4J. Their company got more flying, but it went to GoJ and not to them.

MSA accepted a mediocre contract. NWA took away their airplanes and they are now bankrupt. Results = YTD

ASA = lucked out of the DAL bankruptcy by the SKYW acquisition. No contract and none in sight.

At this point there is no one in a position to critique Comair pilots. We have been forced into this by the very people that are now clamoring for us to "hold the line" so that they can take our flying, which not one of them would refuse. When we did hold the line and raise the bar, not one of them followed us.

This vote may not result in anything good for Comair pilots but there is little doubt that a NO vote would have resulted in good things for the same people that are now calling us names.

We live in interesting times. Let him that is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[COpilot]

Surplus,

Excellent point! A pilot at any airline is going to look out for only ONE person. Might as well accept this law of nature, and wait for the industry to hit bottom.

Welcome to the 21st Century Bus driver, "Oh wait, I did'nt mean to offend any city bus drivers."

 

[ILS2DH]

Surplus,

Excellent post. Really sums up what has happened in this industry. Also another reason I voted no. I just can't take part in the race to the bottom. The YES vote just gives me more time to work on plan B without drawing unemployment benefits.

By the way, where has ALPA been during all this?

 

[KingAirer]

CHQ pilots - Voted for substandard pay supposedly to stop Republic. They accepted J4J and gave their seniority to mainline pilots. They got major growth in exchange, including much of Comairs logical growth. They are happy with it and in love with their E-170's.

And now CHQ is among the highest paid 50seat captains. Accepted J4J and every J4Jer goes to the bottom of the list regardless of seat. All J4J is not created equal. Its amazing that comair wants to retain its arrogance after voting twice for concessions in the past year.

 

[SlapShot]

Here is the problem I have with COMAIR.

For a few YEARS now, they have looked down their nose at just about every other regional operator. I was sick of them pointing to their "industry leading contract". How they took a stand and won. Turns out they are no better then anyone else. Next time we share a van to or from the hotel perhaps you could say "good morning" or something.

Now we are all just pilots, non better then the rest.

 

[surplus1]

And now CHQ is among the highest paid 50seat captains. Accepted J4J and every J4Jer goes to the bottom of the list regardless of seat. All J4J is not created equal. Its amazing that comair wants to retain its arrogance after voting twice for concessions in the past year.

They may be on the technical "bottom of your list" but that doesn't change the fact that they get 1/2 of the Captain positions, perhaps more in Republic.

No matter how much you polish a turd it is still a turd.

 

[ILS2DH]

And now CHQ is among the highest paid 50seat captains.

Don't you see? That won't last for long. Next CHQ contract will have paycuts down to CMR or Mesa or whoever is lowest at the time. If they don't agreed, then all their flying is at stake and mgmt will convince them to concede or the airline will die. I'd bet my last dollar that we'll be having this exact discussion again when the CHQ contract comes up, and probably still doing it 10 years from now. That bastage JO at Mesa said it best a couple of months ago --- "The gun is now in managements hand".

 

[KingAirer]

Here is the problem I have with COMAIR.

For a few YEARS now, they have looked down their nose at just about every other regional operator. I was sick of them pointing to their "industry leading contract". How they took a stand and won. Turns out they are no better then anyone else. Next time we share a van to or from the hotel perhaps you could say "good morning" or something.

Now we are all just pilots, non better then the rest.

Exactly my point. and I agree that every one else will be pressured for concessions now, whether it be formal or in the their next contract.