Comair MEC endorses contract changes

[Tim47SIP]

Same to you!

In a recent ground school, a CP was quoted as saying "f_CK ASA" when asked how our two groups can work together to better Delta. He also said our current leader says the same thing.

Well, I got to tell you that the feeling is mutual. You guys do what you have to to get ahead and we will do what we need to do as well. The one thing we should do is not work against EACH other for the growth. We need to work to get rid of the contract carriers, so the more aircraft each WO group can get is for the best.

 

[shamrock]

OK chper, I misunderstood. Didn't realize you were there.

My hope would be that if you guys do sign off on this, it would establish a level of compensation, work rules, etc. that Mother Delta is comfortable with, and that we at ASA might get close to that. But again, I'm not that naive. More likely we'll see another offer from Skippy for more airplanes in exchange for a contract extension/freeze.

 

[skyslug]

"I don't need you to apologize for me. How long have you been at Comair. Just curious. My opinions are the same as the majority of our pilots."

Afellowaviator...your opinions may or may not be the same as the majority but they sure are a helluva lot louder which gives the impression that you're in the majority. nothin' wrong with that.

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you on your feelings for this proposed change to our contract. I'm just am tired of all the bickering between the groups. We need to focus on Comair and work to keep the planes between Comair (and ASA) and not let them get into the hands of the other contract guys.

As for our proposed contract change...we'll just have to wait for our MEC to present this to us. This should be interesting...

 

[DDpaysoff]

I am sure he is bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**tin. CP never even show up for recurrents, LOL.

No, I actually spoke with your vice chair the other day. We need to work this thing out. I can speak for myself, and I think many others that we would never do anything to sell you guys out. Regardless of this deal, it is a joke anyway, it is a dress for sale deal, and I don't know the details but the fact that butrell came here and delveloped this whole plan in a matter of days tells me Comair is about to be Comair again. Yes or No, I don't know, but the long term health of the company is an issue.

The best thing Comair and ASA can do for themselves and each other is merge seniority lists and develop brand scope language.

Second best, Comair and ASA fly for exactly the same rates and equal benefits, therefore destroying the whipsaw effect within each other. Basically, the same exact contract. If we get that, our two mec's have a good enough relationship to never agree to a TA that would adversly affect the other carrier.

To put it frankly, there was no way in hheellll you were going to get a Comair+1 contract. Don't take offense, but I have had too many conversations with your pilot group to think otherwise. This deal may speed up your negotiations and get a deal that mirrors comair. That is my hope anyway. Once, one of us is spun off, the remaining wholly owned will have a tremendous amount of leverage and will get modest growth and an industry leading contract, while the other gets a decent contract for delta feed for a number of year (to attract investors), and the opportunity to feed other airlines, or market their own product (while remaining at least in the same ballpark as other independent regional airlines with respect to labor costs. It would be a win/win for both carriers.

I expect to see langage by thursday, and your MEC will probably communicate the details to you the same day.

As far as everyone else that is considered a competitor, I can quote Cprplt's quote from CP on that issue.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

They are trying to put a dress on this pig.

Right again DD, it was in Tuesday's Atlanta Journal that Delta is outsourcing some of its office work (payroll and benefits administration) to an outside company called Affilitiated Computer Services. It's supposed to save $120 million.

I've heard that Phred is quoted as saying that it would take an ASA/CMR merge four years to recoup the administrative expenses. ASA and Comair were purchased over four years ago so the costs would have been realized by now along with the possible avoidance of a fabulously expensive textbook case in bad management tactics.

The only reason I can think why this has not occured by now is that Delta intends to sell off one or probably both of the wholly owneds in the near future. By not insisting on a common seniority list as a deal breaking condition of the latest incarnation of the RFP(hred), we have paved the way for a spinoff...and blown an opportunity we will never, ever have again.

 

[goodpilotithink]

"I don't need you to apologize for me. How long have you been at Comair. Just curious. My opinions are the same as the majority of our pilots."

Afellowaviator...your opinions may or may not be the same as the majority but they sure are a helluva lot louder which gives the impression that you're in the majority. nothin' wrong with that.

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you on your feelings for this proposed change to our contract. I'm just am tired of all the bickering between the groups. We need to focus on Comair and work to keep the planes between Comair (and ASA) and not let them get into the hands of the other contract guys.

As for our proposed contract change...we'll just have to wait for our MEC to present this to us. This should be interesting...

So you are not going to answer my question?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I'd love to know what it matters how long he's been at Comair? Does his longevity make him any less entitled to an opinion regarding a proposal that might impact his career?

Seniority does not automatically grace you with divine knowledge and wisdom.

 

[Tomct]

Guys...we need to all stick together!! This is exactly what mgmt wants!! We have to STAND TOGETHER and tell them to P!ss OFF!! It does no good if we start yelling at each other! Stand strong Comair group...We support you guys and we value your support!
Together we Stand.....United we FALL!!

 

[AviatorTx]

The only reason I can think why this has not occured by now is that Delta intends to sell off one or probably both of the wholly owneds in the near future. By not insisting on a common seniority list as a deal breaking condition of the latest incarnation of the RFP(hred), we have paved the way for a spinoff...and blown an opportunity we will never, ever have again.

This is a double edged sword.

We have evidence that the spinoff of COEX was accelerated by all of the talk of a single seniority list between us and CAL. Management got scared it just might happen, and sold off XJT faster than they originally planned. They were sure this would kill the movement. It did.

 

[skyslug]

Goodpilotthink: "So you are not going to answer my question?"

What was your question????

 

[Anaconda]

In a recent ground school, a CP was quoted as saying "f_CK ASA" when asked how our two groups can work together to better Delta. He also said our current leader says the same thing.

gee, let me guess, that would be CP M.R. classy guy that he is...

 

[FlyComAirJets]

AviatorTX makes a very interesting point. The point I was trying to make is that maintaining two separate but identical airlines costs lots of money. But oddly enough, even though we operate into the same hub airports and operate essentially identical fleets (except for the ATRs) there is no back up capability -- that is to say that an Emergency AD would ground all the common aircraft. The same goes for many redundant operations such as crew scheduling. When our computers crashed last Xmas, the ASA computers could not back up the Comair operation and so crews and aircraft just sat around for days as was covered in great detail by the national media.

But I am bewildered by your "talk of a single seniority list" remark. Wasn't the flow through, especially in its original incarnation, a defacto single list? Heck, there was even a single MEC at one point. When Chairman Woerth came to CVG a couple years ago, he pointed to it as the model to strive for. He went on to say that a third of all ExpressJet pilots had CAL seniority numbers (if someone doesn't run with that statement, we are all asleep)! He was of the belief, using the KLM-CityHopper example, that management will just spontaneously merge companies as a cost saving move.

We do not fear being spunoff but I do mourn the lost opportunity. I am only saying that if they were ever going to do it (merge), they would have done it by now. So to blame us for what management in all likelihood was going to do anyway(spinoff) doesn't hold much water.

 

[AviatorTx]

We had a single MEC, but not a single seniority list. The flow up was only 1/3. When the flowback happened, it was another story. The CAL pilots transitioned to our seniority list "mostly" in a block. This is what created the defacto SSL you spoke of.

Many in the union tried to seize this opportunity to get an actual SSL at this time. Just like when the last SSL push really started to take off, this is when CAL announced the second spinoff of Express. The first one died with 9-11. Once the spinoff was complete, the SCABS at CAL that did not even want us in the same MEC, used this as an excuse to not push for a SSL, even though technically we had a defacto one at the time. We are just little jet pilots. If we want a job at CAL, we should earn it like they did.... (sigh)

We were inches away from getting a SSL at one point and time. Too many senior pilots at CAL were just not interested as it did nothing for them.

Now it's looking like we are not even going to get another flowthrough... Anyone got that number for the RJDC???

 

[Captain Overs]

Guys...we need to all stick together!! This is exactly what mgmt wants!! We have to STAND TOGETHER and tell them to P!ss OFF!! It does no good if we start yelling at each other! Stand strong Comair group...We support you guys and we value your support!
Together we Stand.....United we FALL!!

United we FALL!! Maybe not a good choice of words in the same sentence...United and Fall.

 

[Tomct]

Well Captain, I was referring to the regional guys! I can't help what United is going through....Poor Mgmnt!