Comair Furloughing 300

[WateryGrave]

ASA pilots did not fight having furloughed Delta pilots fly there. As far as who is being furloughed at Comair, does not matter. Their shrinking and furloughing, taste the $hit sandwich! Lots of job opportunities at Macd's, or KFC!

You bitter angry little man.... no worries, Karma has a way of dealing with people like you.

Cheers!

 

[PuffDriver]

Strangely enough, I feel like it was all Delta. Like the ones I remember heckling us while we were walking on the picket lines. Of course, I'm sure you're one of the 4000 Delta guys who claims he brought pizza and coffee over to our strike center, or walked the line with us. Funny thing is, I was there probably 75 of the 89 days, and the only guest-walkers I recall had a photographer with them. As for bringing food and drinks, that did indeed happen...about 4 times I was there, and it was greatly appreciated. There are clearly tons of awesome Delta guys. But guys like A"crap"e who delight in others' misfortune aren't one of them.

You can feel like that all you want. You are wrong. I was part of the Delta team that helped START UP your strike center in MCO because you guys had no idea how to do it. I didn't bring food to the line, I brought money. Right out of my own pocket. Your guys thought they had the power to force ALPAs hand on an issue that the Delta pilots did not want. They were grossly wrong, and got spanked, sued, and got spanked again. In the meantime, innocent Comair pilots are going to bear the brunt while your "representative" senior kill any hopes of advancement, at least at Delta.

So the "karma", which so many are talking about, may indeed be rearing its ugly head, only for the Comair guys.

 

[flyboyike]

While I dont like to hear anyone losing their job, I sadly say that I for one really dont lose any sleep over the Comair pilots. During our furlough postt 9-11 the Comair pilots were all about looking out for themselves. They could not have given a $hit about any of us being on the street for 3 years. They made a senority grab, they filed the RJDC lawsuit so they could under cut us and get as many aircraft, as much flying, and as big an aircraft as possible at the expense of our pilots, myself included. Comair pilots wrote up that bull$hit clause that said for dumb reasons they did not support hiring our pilots unless they resigned their senortiy numbers. Comair pilots have always thaught of themselves only, and this could not happen to a nicer group of pilots. My big question is to see how well they treat their own furloughed pilots. Will they be providing cobra payments, will they be sending Christmas checks? Let me know if anyone needs to know how to extend your unemployment benefits? Life is fair!

In other words, you expected the Comair MEC to get Comair mgmt to do something that's not even in the contract, when they can't even get them to honor what is in the contract. Is that about right?

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Boy, it's a good thing you Delta guys showed the little peons at Comair how to open a strike center. That must be because you guys have been on strike so many times and know how to do it. Oh wait, that's right, you pansies have ALWAYS caved. Now if only all of the Navy helo pilots there can show the rest of us how to REALLY fly...

 

[PuffDriver]

Boy, it's a good thing you Delta guys showed the little peons at Comair how to open a strike center. That must be because you guys have been on strike so many times and know how to do it. Oh wait, that's right, you pansies have ALWAYS caved. Now if only all of the Navy helo pilots there can show the rest of us how to REALLY fly...

I know that it is hard to accept for you egomaniacs, but indeed we had to show you how to open a strike center. You struck and got next to nothing in return except some paid time off on the backs of your ALPA, APA, SWAPA brothers.

We caved? Ok, if that makes you feel better. I personally feel as if getting the best contract in the history of airlines is not "caving", but your opinion is your opinion. Meanwhile, facts are facts.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

See, here's the really funny part...You Delta egomaniacs actually think you had to show the Comair guys how to open a strike center. When have you guys ever been on strike?

As for the "next to nothing" comment, at the time it was the best contract in the regional segment. While certainly not up to mainline contract levels, the 2001 Comair contract had the highest payrates and best work rules in that segment. The same forces that destroyed your contract is what happened to the gains the Comair guys earned.

And clearly you guys got a great contract in 2001. But how many times has Delta caved in the past, versus gone on strike? Oh that's right...there's over 80 years of history showing that you guys have caved every single time. And then there's that bothersome "Delta eats their young" reputation. At least you guys tried to change it this last time. But I will say you guys have some sweet blazers.

I know that it is hard to accept for you egomaniacs, but indeed we had to show you how to open a strike center. You struck and got next to nothing in return except some paid time off on the backs of your ALPA, APA, SWAPA brothers.

We caved? Ok, if that makes you feel better. I personally feel as if getting the best contract in the history of airlines is not "caving", but your opinion is your opinion. Meanwhile, facts are facts.

 

[PuffDriver]

See, here's the really funny part...You Delta egomaniacs actually think you had to show the Comair guys how to open a strike center. When have you guys ever been on strike?

Wy don't you stay on topic? There is a big difference between strike prep and going on strike. it is akin to building the nuke and dropping a nuke. Anybody can walk in an oval. To set up the control center, with the associated communications channels, media outlets, recruiting personnel is really the brunt of the work--the work Comair had no idea how to do. We have not had to go on strike. With the real power in the Delta family, Delta has not been willing to weather our strike, and we have not been forced to drop the nuke--the same nuke BTW that would take Comair down as well. Comair did NOT take Delta down.

As for the "next to nothing" comment, at the time it was the best contract in the regional segment. While certainly not up to mainline contract levels, the 2001 Comair contract had the highest payrates and best work rules in that segment. The same forces that destroyed your contract is what happened to the gains the Comair guys earned.

True enough, but the POINT was that the pre-strike contract offer and the final offer were essentially the same. As I said, the Comair guys essentially got a free vacation paid for by other pilots.

And clearly you guys got a great contract in 2001. But how many times has Delta caved in the past, versus gone on strike? Oh that's right...there's over 80 years of history showing that you guys have caved every single time. And then there's that bothersome "Delta eats their young" reputation. At least you guys tried to change it this last time. But I will say you guys have some sweet blazers.

Whew, and Comair has gone on strike, once? Wow, you sure got me. 1 strike with nothing more to show for it than what the company offered pre-strike. I'll take our non-strike and MY financial status from the lack thereof over your ineffective strike and your financial status. Eating our young? Yet another deflect and divert tactic from the issue at hand. But ok, paying Cobra indefinitely and outright giving money to pilots on furlough and in need constitutes eating our young. Fair enough. Your opinion only, but fair enough. Let's see if Comair pilots will cough it up for their furloughees--once again taking their hints from Delta, or if they will just cut them loose. For that matter, if the Comair senior had agreed to flow through protections, all of this may very well have been unnecessary. Comair RJDC guys are on record many times as saying that if Delta guys had agreed to one list that Comair pilots would have been getting furloughed instead of Delta guys. Speaking of being willing to eat your young!!

You need to give it up little man, you are getting spanked ala Joe Merchant an your Cessna buddy.

 

[N2264J]

...you are getting spanked ala Joe Merchant an your Cessna buddy.

In your mind, Poindexter.

Now go finish ironing your award winning collection of ascots.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

You're right. We should stay on topic. The topic is yet another jerkoff Delta anus was taking delight in a bunch of newhire pilots losing their jobs. Let's talk about that some more. Or should we talk about how long before Big D goes bankrupt again with $140 oil?

 

[PuffDriver]

In your mind, Poindexter.

Now go finish ironing your award winning collection of ascots.

Yawn.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Comair is not a Major. Any of their PFT guys going to get furloughed?

 

[PuffDriver]

You're right. We should stay on topic. The topic is yet another jerkoff Delta anus was taking delight in a bunch of newhire pilots losing their jobs. Let's talk about that some more. Or should we talk about how long before Big D goes bankrupt again with $140 oil?

Yep, you're right here it is, my original post:

Nope. It was all Comair. Sorry, but true. To the Comair junior guys on the board, I truly feel for your position. Hopefully, your pilots will take care of you as our pilots took care of our furloughed with regard to monetary and health care issues.

Delta pilots played their part fine. They were willing to expend negotiating capital on flow through agreements with our wholly owneds. Your senior, however, wanted more than Delta pilots were willing to give. They wanted our seats, and overplayed their hand with regard to making a power play. On your way out the door that they are holding open for you from back in the early part of the decade, you might take a moment to poo in their flight case.

All Delta pilots realize that these furloughees were not the ones responsible, and it is really too bad that it has to be this way.

Perhaps Compass might be a good place to relocate, as there will be good relations and flow agreements in place.

My sincere condolences to you, if indeed the furlough materializes.


Just a ton of "delight" there. It practically exudes "delight". Then we come to the little gem of pulling out the Delta BK card. Yep, we went BK. Can't hide from it. So did Comair. But, once again, it's off topic since the poster can't seem to find a coherent argument ON topic. Or we could talk about the "I told you so's" from your buddies with Delta pilots being furloughed. Or we could talk about the Comair captains who WERE around who will now be swinging gear in the near future. Or we could speculate about how many more a/c Comair will be parking, or how many more 777s Delta will be ordering.

The message is simple, your 15 minutes are over, and it is your lackluster MEC--you know the ones holding a mini strike because they are not getting their 95 hour months without releasing a parking brake--and their hand holding with the RJDC who are to blame.

Game, set , and match. It's like shooting fish in a barrel, it's just too bad that innocent f/os have to pay the price, and that the furlough cannot happen from the top down. Of course, those f/os will skate over to other jobs and be just fine. We shall soon find out the future of the upper crust. Karma is indeed a bitch, and she's back in heat.

 

[MJ42]

Yep, you're right here it is, my original post:

Nope. It was all Comair. Sorry, but true. To the Comair junior guys on the board, I truly feel for your position. Hopefully, your pilots will take care of you as our pilots took care of our furloughed with regard to monetary and health care issues.

Delta pilots played their part fine. They were willing to expend negotiating capital on flow through agreements with our wholly owneds. Your senior, however, wanted more than Delta pilots were willing to give. They wanted our seats, and overplayed their hand with regard to making a power play. On your way out the door that they are holding open for you from back in the early part of the decade, you might take a moment to poo in their flight case.

All Delta pilots realize that these furloughees were not the ones responsible, and it is really too bad that it has to be this way.

Perhaps Compass might be a good place to relocate, as there will be good relations and flow agreements in place.

My sincere condolences to you, if indeed the furlough materializes.


Just a ton of "delight" there. It practically exudes "delight". Then we come to the little gem of pulling out the Delta BK card. Yep, we went BK. Can't hide from it. So did Comair. But, once again, it's off topic since the poster can't seem to find a coherent argument ON topic. Or we could talk about the "I told you so's" from your buddies with Delta pilots being furloughed. Or we could talk about the Comair captains who WERE around who will now be swinging gear in the near future. Or we could speculate about how many more a/c Comair will be parking, or how many more 777s Delta will be ordering.

The message is simple, your 15 minutes are over, and it is your lackluster MEC--you know the ones holding a mini strike because they are not getting their 95 hour months without releasing a parking brake--and their hand holding with the RJDC who are to blame.

Game, set , and match. It's like shooting fish in a barrel, it's just too bad that innocent f/os have to pay the price, and that the furlough cannot happen from the top down. Of course, those f/os will skate over to other jobs and be just fine. We shall soon find out the future of the upper crust. Karma is indeed a bitch, and she's back in heat.

Well, somebody had to post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENY7qCkDYL0&feature=related

 

[flyboyike]

..it's just too bad that innocent f/os have to pay the price, and that the furlough cannot happen from the top down. Of course, those f/os will skate over to other jobs and be just fine.

What other jobs?

 

[PuffDriver]

What other jobs?

Take a look at some of the web sites out there. There are places hiring.

I would imagine that Pinnacle is/will be hiring. I would imagine that the Chautauqua/Republic folks may be hiring. There are jobs out there. Are you one of the Comair f/os in the crosshairs?

 

[flyboyike]

I would imagine that Pinnacle is/will be hiring. I would imagine that the Chautauqua/Republic folks may be hiring. There are jobs out there. Are you one of the Comair f/os in the crosshairs?

No, not in the crosshairs, at least not yet. No thanks about Pinnacle. Republic will be furloughing about 400 from the sound of it. Same with Expressjet, but thank you for the good wishes.

 

[PuffDriver]

No, not in the crosshairs, at least not yet. No thanks about Pinnacle. Republic will be furloughing about 400 from the sound of it. Same with Expressjet, but thank you for the good wishes.

How about Compass?

 

[flyboyike]

How about Compass?

So I can be furloughed when your DC-9-driving brothers flow back?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

In your mind, Poindexter.

Now go finish ironing your award winning collection of ascots.

And you get back to polishing joemerchant's knob.

 

[PuffDriver]

So I can be furloughed when your DC-9-driving brothers flow back?

..and have recall rights to an airline with a future. that is, if you would get furloughed at all. Or just sit around like all of the other Comair guys and blame the Delta pilots.

It's always somebody else's fault, after all.

I'll leave you guys to cry the last word. I'll help, waaaahhhhhhhhhhh. My sympathy is waning. uke:

 

[flyboyike]

..and have recall rights to an airline with a future. that is, if you would get furloughed at all. Or just sit around like all of the other Comair guys and blame the Delta pilots.

It's always somebody else's fault, after all.

I'll leave you guys to cry the last word. I'll help, waaaahhhhhhhhhhh. My sympathy is waning. uke:

What sympathy?

 

[PuffDriver]

What sympathy?

I guess you can't read either. Oh well, I tried. You just can't fix stoopid. See ya.

Karma, it's a bitch, and she's back in heat.

 

[El Pobre]

I feel bad for those guys/gals that will have thier career aspirations put on hold for a while.

But, if you are one of the bottom 300 at Comair, you can probably work at McDonalds and make more money than you were at Comair....and be home every night to boot!

The reality is that I can't understand why anyone would want to work in this industry for $19 an hour. But I guess to each his own... Best of luck to all who are getting furloughed (I've been there before and it sucks)

 

[imacdog]

Comair is not a Major. Any of their PFT guys going to get furloughed?

That would be a big negative ol buddy. As stated before, all furloughs have had nothing to do with the Comair/Delta squabble or pay for training at Comair. Still, it's great to see so-called professionals in this industry acting as if they are getting some sort of justice out of this.

 

[captainv]

For us Comair guys, I guess it's easy to forget that after 9/11, during a period of explosive growth for us (and most other regionals), 1/3 of the Delta pilots were furloughed and didn't come back for several years.

now that Comair has shrunk by a 1/3 (176 aircraft down to the new total, 114), the shoe is on the other foot. up until now, our guys have left voluntarily, hopefully for greener pastures. no longer.

it sucked for them, it will suck for us. in both cases, the furloughs are due to the decisions made by DAL management. IMO, the actions of DALPA, CMR MEC, RJDC have little effect on the outcome, but if it makes y'all feel better to blame each other rather than management, so be it.

 

[Grinder10]

No, not in the crosshairs, at least not yet. No thanks about Pinnacle.

What does Pinnacle have to do with anything? Did they get flying that was "supposed to be yours"? I guess you could also say "No thanks to Skywest, ASA, Repulic, Chautauqua, etc." Just about every regional in the country as at one point "taken" flying from another regional. Get used to it because that's the way the business goes.

 

[4got2flare]

Half of the Comair Pilots from 2001 have quit and moved on. Where are they? Everywhere, even Delta...
Why, They moved to greener pastures for their own reasons. However in 2001, a group of pilots finally stood their ground and said close the doors if you need to but we are done. Delta didn't let that happen did they.....
You say nothing was gained but I beg to differ...
1. Pay (top captain from $69 to $118) Changed in BK
2. Trip and Duty Rigs (none to Min day, Duty, and Trip) Changed in BK
3. Retirement (none to B Plan) Lost in BK
4. Work rule changes.... Again BK that Delta took them into...
So to ridicule a group who drew a line in the sand when you would never put your job on the line is moronic. This industry has a problem that is from the bottom to the top. Everyone dreams of the 747/777 CA seat getting paid 200+/hr but the only way to get there is to pay ones dues. Spend your time in a RJ/Prop/Military for a couple of years depending on the economy, then push to move on, if your lucky and have the right contacts.
Now the problem. Everyone is so fixated on the end game that they will do anything to get in the door. They will take any job at any price with any rules to get in the door. Everyone at that company is again fixated on moving on so they forget to fight to make it a better place for the future. Will you get involved to raise the bar for those that follow behind? The attitude of I got mine screw off has to stop.

For some posters that keep pushing the KARMA line I hope your not a believer, if so you just might be next in the crosshairs.....
Never forget where you came from and always help those that follow behind.......

I wish all the best

 

[imacdog]

What does Pinnacle have to do with anything? Did they get flying that was "supposed to be yours"? I guess you could also say "No thanks to Skywest, ASA, Repulic, Chautauqua, etc." Just about every regional in the country as at one point "taken" flying from another regional. Get used to it because that's the way the business goes.

Not even that PFT whore PCL_128 recommends people go to Pinnacle. Granted no one listens to what he said before he was banned anyway but the point was, there is a limit on how crappy of a job some people are willing to take.

 

[CFI2766]

Half of the Comair Pilots from 2001 have quit and moved on. Where are they? Everywhere, even Delta...
Why, They moved to greener pastures for their own reasons. However in 2001, a group of pilots finally stood their ground and said close the doors if you need to but we are done. Delta didn't let that happen did they.....
You say nothing was gained but I beg to differ...
1. Pay (top captain from $69 to $118) Changed in BK
2. Trip and Duty Rigs (none to Min day, Duty, and Trip) Changed in BK
3. Retirement (none to B Plan) Lost in BK
4. Work rule changes.... Again BK that Delta took them into...
So to ridicule a group who drew a line in the sand when you would never put your job on the line is moronic. This industry has a problem that is from the bottom to the top. Everyone dreams of the 747/777 CA seat getting paid 200+/hr but the only way to get there is to pay ones dues. Spend your time in a RJ/Prop/Military for a couple of years depending on the economy, then push to move on, if your lucky and have the right contacts.
Now the problem. Everyone is so fixated on the end game that they will do anything to get in the door. They will take any job at any price with any rules to get in the door. Everyone at that company is again fixated on moving on so they forget to fight to make it a better place for the future. Will you get involved to raise the bar for those that follow behind? The attitude of I got mine screw off has to stop.

For some posters that keep pushing the KARMA line I hope your not a believer, if so you just might be next in the crosshairs.....
Never forget where you came from and always help those that follow behind.......

I wish all the best

Easy, there big guy, stop making sense. Most of the posters here will stop reading if you continue this line of non-flameworthy thought! :beer:


Seriously, Good form.

One point, though:

Everyone at that company is again fixated on moving on so they forget to fight to make it a better place for the future. Will you get involved to raise the bar for those that follow behind?

This is a nice thought, but the past and the present have shown what happens to those who 'raise the bar' at the regional level. The vertical mobility of 'the bar' is severely limited when another pilot group will do any flying for 1 penny less than what it is currently being done. I.E., the last groups of regional guys to get industry leading contracts have slowly, systematically undergone a downsizing. What lesson does that leave for those still at the regionals?

(As well, there is nothing wrong with wanting to move to a bigger airplane, and potentially bigger paycheck. Equally acceptable, there is nothing wrong with wanting to stay at the top of a regional seniority list and enjoy good pay and decent QOL. No need to bash either aspiration, IMO.)

My point here is that self interest has trumped unity, and there is nothing that any one of the individual players can do about it and still remain in the game.

 

[PuffDriver]

Half of the Comair Pilots from 2001 have quit and moved on. Where are they? Everywhere, even Delta...
Why, They moved to greener pastures for their own reasons. However in 2001, a group of pilots finally stood their ground and said close the doors if you need to but we are done. Delta didn't let that happen did they.....
You say nothing was gained but I beg to differ...
1. Pay (top captain from $69 to $118) Changed in BK
2. Trip and Duty Rigs (none to Min day, Duty, and Trip) Changed in BK
3. Retirement (none to B Plan) Lost in BK
4. Work rule changes.... Again BK that Delta took them into...
So to ridicule a group who drew a line in the sand when you would never put your job on the line is moronic. This industry has a problem that is from the bottom to the top. Everyone dreams of the 747/777 CA seat getting paid 200+/hr but the only way to get there is to pay ones dues. Spend your time in a RJ/Prop/Military for a couple of years depending on the economy, then push to move on, if your lucky and have the right contacts.
Now the problem. Everyone is so fixated on the end game that they will do anything to get in the door. They will take any job at any price with any rules to get in the door. Everyone at that company is again fixated on moving on so they forget to fight to make it a better place for the future. Will you get involved to raise the bar for those that follow behind? The attitude of I got mine screw off has to stop.

For some posters that keep pushing the KARMA line I hope your not a believer, if so you just might be next in the crosshairs.....
Never forget where you came from and always help those that follow behind.......

I wish all the best

Ok, a good contract. The point was, and listen carefully here, how much of that list was gained PRE-strike and which items were gained POST-strike. You like to make a big deal that you struck. I get it. My question is what did your large cajones gain you over what you already had before walking in circles? Hint: your list is MUCH MUCH shorter.

To say that Delta pilots have not put their jobs on the line is disingenuous at best. Delta pilots have much more to lose with no company that you do, have much more of a sword to wield than you--sort of like the USA's nuke arsenal pointed at Russia vs Vatican City's nuke arsenal pointed at Russia--and the company simply cannot weather a strike from the Delta pilots when they obviously can from the Comair pilots.

Yes we have hired some Comair pilots post RJDC, but you can count them without having to use toes versus Skywest and ASA.

The Delta pilots have done plenty for those left behind. The problem was that there were some guys who wanted the Delta pilots to carry their water for them, and then wanted the Delta pilots water as well. The regionals were never meant to be a career. Some have made it so. So be it. They can try and make their lives better all they want, until they start f****** with MY livlihood. Then the gloves come off.

The original intent of my participation in this thread was to express my condolences to the guys in the crosshairs and to correct the misconception that this is the Delta pilots fault. It is not, NONE of it. The blame can be pointed squarely at your weak MEC along with the RJDC crowd.

I'd like to continue, but my interest, and care, have waned. Besides, it is in the regional thread now.