Comair exit poll

[FDJ2]

If Comair plans to start shedding 50 seaters and not maintain the fleet size, why would they be wanting to add 10 more this year?

Didn't Delta have to commitment to GECAS to receive additional 50 seaters as part of DAL's debt restructuring? In with the new, out with the old. For each new CRJ50 CMR receives, I'm sure they can start dumping 2 or 3 old CRJ50s after 12-31-08, but that will come after the spin off. I don't think the CRJ50 will be dumped all together, but its economics are so weak, that there are fewer and fewer markets where it makes sense. There will still be some CRJ50s around after 12-31-08, but far fewer then you see today, and the addition of a few dozen CRJ70s or possibly a few E-170s, will not keep pace with the attrition of the older CRJ50s as their leases expire.

 

[Nindiri]

But if I'm not mistaken, the 10 GECAS CRJ50s are used. I guess they could be replacements for even older 50s from the earliest RJ days, but that would seem rather inefficient. In any event, I agree that there is not a lot of room left for 50 seat growth, but with not enough 70s to replace many of them, I don't see how Delta can afford to retire too many of them.

 

[FDJ2]

Leases don't end after 12-31-05, nor will the LOA allow those aircraft to go away after 12-31-05.

I'm sorry, I meant 2008 not 2005. Delta has 123 50 seat RJs on lease. When do those leases end? Never? I would bet sometime after 12-31-08.

What specific language is in the LOA that would prevent those 50 seaters from going away after 12-31-08?

Is that language binding on a successor should CMR be spun off and acquired by another carrier like Skywest, MESA, CHQ etc?

I'm not saying this concession for jets deal isn't in the CMR pilots best interest, but I'd be very careful about assuming certain things about your contractual minimum fleet size post 12-31-08

 

[FDJ2]

But if I'm not mistaken, the 10 GECAS CRJ50s are used. I guess they could be replacements for even older 50s from the earliest RJ days, but that would seem rather inefficient.

I'm not sure if the efficiency, or lack there of, of the above scenario was a top concern of GECAS when they required DAL to obtain additional CRJ50s.

 

[172driver]

Never mind

 

[jetflyer]

How do we find out on our own the exit poll results? Where is it on the Alpa website?

Jet

 

[chperplt]

is that language binding on a successor

Yes it is.

 

[FDJ2]

Yes it is.

I'm glad to hear that in the event CMR is spun off your still protected until 12-31-08, although I'm not sure how that would work if you are merged in with another regional carrier.

 

[homerjdispatch]

How does the language protect you if a NON-UNION carrier were to aquire Comair?

 

[FDJ2]

How does the language protect you if a NON-UNION carrier were to aquire Comair?

Naturally that depends on the specific language of the CMR PWA. I suspect that in that case the CMR pilots PWA lists as a condition of the sale a list integration inaccordance with certain sections of Allegheny-Mohawk when merging with an other than ALPA carrier. As an organized group, I'm sure the CMR pilots would fare much better under those circumstances against a non unionized pilot group with little to no organization or contractual language to protect their interests. Furthermore, there could be specific language in the CMR PWA that sets certain conditions in the event of a change of control/fragmentation/successorship that the acquiring airline must honor as a condition of the acquisition.

 

[CaptDave]

87% Voted

60.6 % FOR
39.4 % AGAINST

 

[homerjdispatch]

Is that the poll or "official results"?

 

[CheapFlyer]

Is that the poll or "official results"?

That is official.

I don't think the people that voted yes understand the long term effects this is going to have on the entire industry.


-CF

 

[bvt1151]

That is official.

I don't think the people that voted yes understand the long term effects this is going to have on the entire industry.


-CF

I don't think the people who voted no understand the long term effects it would have had on the Comair pilots.

 

[WWEfan]

I cant wait to see your new president's bonus check for accomplishing this tremendous feat. I'm guessing it will be well over 6 figures.

 

[acarpe3448]

I think it so funny to hear the Comair pilots so worried about their futures, pay concessions, furloughs etc. etc. It was not long ago how you all preached to me that the stingy Delta pilots priced themselves out of business, that the forces of the new industry could not support our contract, and the company did not need our furloughed pilots. Comair pilots sat there and enjoyed record growth, upgrades, new hires etc. etc. and refused to hire and single one of us. Well it's your turn now, your tune has changed, you screwed ASA's possibility of a good new contract (although I think they are crazy if they think they can get a industry leading contract these days) and the RJDC is dead. Enjoy the concessions, I know I am loving my 32.5% pay cut, although it is a lot better than the 2 1/2 years I was out of work. Those 89 days seem pretty meaningless now don't they!

 

[standaman]

ASA can still equal our contract with the concessions and still get a good raise. I am tired of hearing that argument. Comair looks out for Comair. ASA looks out for ASA.

 

[jarhead]

I think it so funny to hear the Comair pilots so worried about their futures, pay concessions, furloughs etc. etc. It was not long ago how you all preached to me that the stingy Delta pilots priced themselves out of business, that the forces of the new industry could not support our contract, and the company did not need our furloughed pilots. Comair pilots sat there and enjoyed record growth, upgrades, new hires etc. etc. and refused to hire and single one of us. Well it's your turn now, your tune has changed, you screwed ASA's possibility of a good new contract (although I think they are crazy if they think they can get a industry leading contract these days) and the RJDC is dead. Enjoy the concessions, I know I am loving my 32.5% pay cut, although it is a lot better than the 2 1/2 years I was out of work. Those 89 days seem pretty meaningless now don't they!

The RJDC has zero to do with the issues between Comair and its pilots. That is a lawsuit against ALPA national.....nothing more, nothing less. The RJDC ain't dead, sir.

 

[acarpe3448]

I disagree with you. The ALPA national disagreement may have been a part of the RJDC agenda, but it was very obvious that Ford and crew wanted to get rid of the Delta scope language so that they may get all of the jets they wanted, and any number of seats. The RJDC saw the postt 9-11 environment as their golden opportunity to try to shift all the flying they could, along with 90-100 seaters. They clearly stated that they felt their careers were being harmed due to scope limitations. The Comair pilots were looking out for themselves in this case, and in every case. Don't try to deny that they wanted more planes, more growth, more money, regardless of the number of pilots on furlough from Delta. Comair kept telling us how the more RJ's they got, the better off it would be for Delta's bottom line. The funny thing is that as Delta shifted more and more flying to RJ's, the more RJ's the more RJ's they purchased, the more Delta Connection grew, the MORE MONEY DELTA LOST! It's a fact.

 

[jarhead]

So you are saying that if Delta pilots flew all the 70 seaters above 57 air frames, at Delta pay rates, Delta would be losing less money?

Why is DAL flying the RJ's at all, instead of 737's on all the routes DCI operates on? Mama Delta is the entity that selects or approves the DCI routes and frequency.

I recall looking a few months back at the frequency of flights from MSP to CVG. There were 8 per day; 6 were Comair RJ's, 1 was an MD-88, and 1 was a 737-200. How come? I mean, why would Delta only have two flights if the other six were losing so much money?