Comair exit poll

[PCL_128]

I'm thinking about our group, and it's ok for you to question my intentions. But you are wrong for saying I'm only saying what I'm saying FOR MYSELF.

How 'bout we all start thinking about what is best for the entire profession? You talk about how you think this will help the Comair pilot group (it won't, but you aren't smart enough to figure that out), but how about what this will do to the entire regional industry? Two very large regionals (ASA, PCL) are currently in negotiations hoping to raise the bar for the entire profession. Meanwhile, jetflyer is worried about getting new airplanes even if it means the rest of the industry must suffer.

As for your "aging fleet" comment, that is just ridiculous. 14 year old RJs are not "aging." Those planes have many years left in them and they aren't going anywhere for quite some time. The CMR fleet will not shrink no matter how you vote on these concessions. You're just stretching to find any excuse you can to justify taking it up the a$$ to get more and bigger airplanes. The rest of us aint buying it, so give it up.

When it comes right down to it, this is concessions for growth. You can try to sugarcoat it, but that's all it is. If you vote no on these concessions, the worst case scenario is stagnation at CMR. Is that really so bad? Growth will stop eventually anyway. You can't keep growing forever. At some point the airline will reach maturity and stop taking on new aircraft. What will you do then? Accept Mesa-5% to steal their flying? Where does it all stop? I'm beginning to think that it will never stop. At this rate we will all be making Greyhound driver wages to fly 777s. Someone has to stop this nonsense. I was hoping the CMR pilots had enough common sense and loyalty to their fellow pilots, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[jetflyer]

COME ON, Where are the coming Kool-Aid REFERENCES?

I'm waiting.

They're good for a laugh

Jet

 

[~~~^~~~]

Don't ever question me again,

Jet

Oh' OK since you put it that way, the People rest.

 

[JI Gone OH]

How 'bout we all start thinking about what is best for the entire profession?QUOTE]

Comair did that nearly 4 years ago with the strike, and no one followed. They (not I) did their part. We (now I) are done doing what's best for "the industry" and are going into self preservation mode. Sorry if you don't see it our way, but the rest of the "regionals" gave us no choice.

 

[jetflyer]

PCL_128,

It is what is best for OUR pilot group and company. If you would get your head out of your a$$ and look at it from our viewpoint, YOU would see that.

Once again, you want us to VOTE "NO" SO:
1) You can get these GROWTH airplanes.
2) You can get a BETTER "COMAIR -1%" Contract.

We know what your intentions are for attacking Comair pilots. They are totally self serving.

Jet

 

[jetflyer]

PCL_128 and all of you attacking Comair pilots,

It's VERY EASY for you to sit back with your holier than though attitudes and say to us at Comair, "DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE INDUSTRY"

What have you done for the industry??

Jet

 

[~~~^~~~]

Comair did that nearly 4 years ago with the strike, and no one followed.

We (now I) are done doing what's best for "the industry" and are going into self preservation mode. Sorry, the rest of the "regionals" gave us no choice.

ASA was offered Comair's contract early in our negotiations and we turned it down.

Where do you get this crap about the rest of the industry? Did Mike Pinho ( Delta MEC Vice Chair ) fly to CVG?

Do you suggest ASA also go into self preservation mode? We were planning on raising the bar, but our brother shot us in the back and giggled because he thinks he might get our horse.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Do you suggest ASA also go into self preservation mode? We were planning on raising the bar, but our brother shot us in the back and giggled because he thinks he might get our horse.

Hey look, I'm not sure what the answer is for you guys down in ATL. What I do know is that I have been at COMAIR for over 3 years, and y'all have been negotiating for just about the entire time I have been here. I appreciate and believe that you were planning on raising the bar, but the question is when? We can't afford to sit around and wait for you, and in the meantime watch these airplanes continue be allocated to other "portfolio" carriers, esp. the non-WO's like CHQ. It's time for us to either ride the pine or get in the game. I prefer the latter....

I do understand and respect your views, but what you see and what we see are 2 very different pictures.

 

[ACE]

ASA was offered Comair's contract early in our negotiations and we turned it down.

Where do you get this crap about the rest of the industry? Did Mike Pinho ( Delta MEC Vice Chair ) fly to CVG?

Do you suggest ASA also go into self preservation mode? We were planning on raising the bar, but our brother shot us in the back and giggled because he thinks he might get our horse.

LMAO....You were offered our contract?...LMAO. Somehow I doubt it. We do work for the same overall management right? If you have proof of that one, please do show us.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL_128,

It is what is best for OUR pilot group and company. If you would get your head out of your a$$ and look at it from our viewpoint, YOU would see that.

Once again, you want us to VOTE "NO" SO:
1) You can get these GROWTH airplanes.

Sorry, but PCL is not bidding on any Delta flying that I'm aware of. I could care less about any growth anyway. I sit in the top 3rd of the seniority list, why would I care about more airplanes for new hires to fly? I certainly wouldn't take any concessions whatsoever for growth. We already have more than enough airplanes to keep our current pilots employed, and so does Comair.

2) You can get a BETTER "COMAIR -1%" Contract.

We know what your intentions are for attacking Comair pilots. They are totally self serving.

Jet

Sorry, wrong again. Comair -1% will get a big NO vote from me every time. Unless it's Comair +X% I will be voting NO. My intentions may be somewhat self serving. I do want us to get an industry leading contract, and your taking it up the a$$ is probably going to prevent that from happening. You're concessions are limiting my income potential just so you can fly a slightly bigger, slightly shinier RJ. So yeah, that bothers me. But what bothers me alot more is what this does longterm to the regional industry. Pattern bargaining requires us to raise the bar and keep it there. If everyone keeps taking concessions to get more airplanes, the pattern is going the wrong way. You're doing management's job for them. It's our job to raise the bar, not lower it. Stop gulping the kool aid and open your eyes. You're playing right into their trap.

 

[jetflyer]

PCL_128,

I stand corrected, you don't care about your fellow reserve CAs and FOs or the bottom of your seniority list, so YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT NEW PLANES.

Also, I'm sorry we're taking away some of your bargaining capital. You said it yourself you are slightly self serving over this issue.

I wish there were a better way than what is going on at Comair. I wish we could work closer together and have a mutual agreement that benefited us both. We weren't presented one. I hope we can mend these fences and regain our full support for each other one day.

Also, I guarantee, YOU MAY NOT, but if the rest of your pilot group were offered a deal like the one offered to Comair pilots, THEY WOULD TAKE IT IN A HEART BEAT.

I garinteeee

Jet

 

[~~~^~~~]

LMAO....You were offered our contract?...LMAO. Somehow I doubt it. We do work for the same overall management right? If you have proof of that one, please do show us.

IFly, PCL, anyone want to back me up on this?

At the contract opener Management Giggled and slid the Comair contract across the table. Our guys were prepared and slid a copy of Delta's C2K back the other way with a laugh from everyone. Over the next several months we were repeatedly told we would be the best paid pilots in the industry but we could accept the Comair pilots' contract language and get this done quick.

Admittedly over the years the rhetoric from management has changed. We were told we would be "among the best paid," then "you will earn industry standard," to the current verbiage that the "competitive environment has changed and we need an advantage against other very competitive Delta Connection carriers."

ASA's negotiators have been resolute. We continue to believe that a 1% difference in pilot compensation will not cause Delta to change its marketing plans, route structure or aircraft purchasing decisions. And if you believe it, then ASA gets the planes because we are Comair -1% ( after your vote ).

This "concession" was political. It certainly raised Fred Buttrell's star and I do believe he will try to deliver what he promises. It also will turn the tide at ASA and maybe CHQ.

Either way Comair will get the airplanes coming to Comair. The single greatest factor is Delta's balance sheet and $20 million in concessions does not do much to fix a $20,000,000,000.00 dollar shortfall.

~~~^~~~

 

[FlyComAirJets]

I wish we would have held out for a better offer -- after the ASA pilots inked their deal first.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I hope we can mend these fences and regain our full support for each other one day.

Also, I guarantee, YOU MAY NOT, but if the rest of your pilot group were offered a deal like the one offered to Comair pilots, THEY WOULD TAKE IT IN A HEART BEAT.

Jet

Jet which is it? You want full support, or you want us undercutting each other for airplanes?

You need those fences - to keep a bunch of angry ASA pilots from kicking your little self serving, I'm all for me, butt.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

If you wake up every day worried that you are not getting "industry leading pay", you are probably in for a disappointing career. Consider this with regard to the majors. Industry leading pay: 1962-TWA, 1972-Pan Am, 1982-Eastern, 1992-USAir, 2002-United or Delta (I'm not sure). Of course, pilot pay alone does not take an airline down, but labor costs are a very significant factor. Every major airline pilot group that was able to say that they had industry leading pay, soon faced furloughs and concessions.

If a pay freeze leads to significant growth, it may very well lead to more pay and quality of life through upgrades, better seniority, more productive schedules.